115 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

Prosperity Park, on 03 July 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

That's kind of how they planned it. Here's a snippit from the base thread:


Would bumping all the Medium Mechs to the small bracket be a good thing? I think the Tiny bracket and the Small brackets should be reserved for the Lights and the 40-tonners, because they do need some kind of differentiation between the smaller and bigger Light Mechs (15-tons is a HUGE difference in weight if you're talking about 20 vs 35 tons). if you dump the medium Mechs into the small bracket, then the heavier Light Mechs are no longer "more mobile" from the Movement Code perspective than Medium Mechs...

Oh come on, just move the heavier mechs up. We don't need mediums on the same level as lights. Just make it light, medium, heavy, assault instead of the weird 5 tier thing we have now that makes Quickdraws bigger than other heavies and Hunchbacks the same as a Jagermech (and besides being non-intuitive is also added complexity).

The other issue this brings up is the terrible implementation of JJs. JJs can only go up right now. Forward movement is really needed, and it could easily be based on the speed that the mech is set to. That still leaves sideways jumpjetting missing though, so it really just needs to be a funciton of the WASD keys and always be set to max speed in that direction.

[Breadmachine]

"light hunting" as a tactic is always handled by cicadas or light mechs.
That's how it's always been and always will be.
If you can't hunt lights with those mechs, you're doing it wrong.
If as a light pilot, you can not get away from heavies, you are doing it wrong.

If you think a heavy is for "hunting" a light... remember the light can go 20-50 KPH faster than a heavy... there is no light hunting with heavies. If you are successfully hunting lights with heavies, you are Pub-Stomping noobs. That is not a tactic; that's feeding on baby animals.

Peace.

[FunkyFritter]

Prosperity Park, on 03 July 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I don't foresee teams of PPC Stalkers wining many fast-paced asymetrical conquest maps in the future... so why are people obsessed with "Hunting Lights" with Stalkers?

How is a PPC-Stalker supposed to follow a Light Mech, or prevent a capture point across the map from being captured? What makes everyone think that "High-Alpha Meta" will be the answer to everything months from now, in all game modes, with weight restrictions? Please think ahead a bit.

Because we have no idea what the game will be like in the future. All we know is the maps and game modes we've been playing for roughly a year.

[Rippthrough]

There is no light hunting. If there is, you're doing it wrong.

I don't need to chase after something I can reach out and smack at 1.5km. Certainly not with something slower and much easier to hit.
With the advent of seismic and all the other unintentional nerf-bats taken to lights the last few months, they're not a threat even worth worrying about any more.

Edited by Rippthrough, 05 July 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Well, admittedly, there is always been a form of light-hunting going on.

You know how it worked.

"Okay guys, let's all stick together and move the E-line".
"All right"

"LRM boats in the back, brawlers to the front. We should focus our fire on... Oh, look, Jenner.."
3 mechs leave formation and run after it, get into enemy fire, team is now 5 to 8, enemy Jenner components are red anywhere and he's sitting on the cap point. Res tof team dies within 2 minutes.

But that's not really anything about role warfare. It's more about Pug reflexes.
Yo can try to fight it, but the movemement system will .. oh, look Jenner

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 05 July 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[Lupin]

I am sorry to see this topic go WAY off topic, but hope it brings home to PGI just how pissed off a lot of players are.

But does bring up a question, when are you getting test server? As BOY you need it.
It was just plain dumb putting in all of these changes without testing maps and code first.

And agree with the idea that you should fix the code not the maps.

Edited by Lupin, 05 July 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[Deathlike]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 July 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

"LRM boats in the back, brawlers to the front. We should focus our fire on... Oh, look, Jenner SQUIRREL.."
3 mechs leave formation and run after it, get into enemy fire, team is now 5 to 8, enemy Jenner Squirrel components are red anywhere and he's sitting on the cap point. Res tof team dies within 2 minutes.

But that's not really anything about role warfare. It's more about Pug reflexes.
Yo can try to fight it, but the movemement system will .. oh, look Jenner SQUIRREL!

Edited by Deathlike, 05 July 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[Demuder]

Prosperity Park, on 03 July 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Okay, this isn't a thread about JJ shake, PPC Stalkers, or Solo vs Premades; it's about how the movement code has impacted the tactic of "Light Hunting."

I am sorry to say, there is no such tactic. And the new movement system won't create one either. I tried Light Hunting in my 100km, 3xSSRM Treb for a bit. I either chased the light in the range on my team's heavies and assaults who one shoted it with their PPCs or I followed the light in the range of his buddies' PPCs where they one shoted me. Simply put, this is the state of "Light Hunting in a med" for months now. No amount of movement system changes will affect it, so you understand that your question is wrong in the first place.

Edited by dimstog, 05 July 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Jonny Taco]

Here is my suggestion. How about testing things before they get implemented... I know, a crazy concept... After duek nukem forever, I probably should not be expecting much tho...


This community is getting pretty pissed for paying you guys (pgi) to do your work...

[jay35]

So what's the likelihood of you guys raising the max climbable slope to something more reasonable like 55-60 degrees?

Or should I just leave all my non-jumpjet mechs in mothballs indefinitely and let that guide all my future purchases as well?

It's really that obnoxious, especially since many of the clearly marked paths on the maps are simply no longer traversable due to the 45-degree stricture that clearly wasn't in the mind of the artist when they created those paths.

It looks like they designed with something closer to 55-60 degrees in mind, which is why that seems like it would be a perfectly reasonable compromise, given that would keep steep slopes unmaneuverable while facilitating normal movement up gentle inclines and pathways.

Right now this just plays like arbitrary and capricious nerf to anything without jumpjets or enough speed to 'cheat' its way up and over paths.

Edited by jay35, 07 July 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Streak Cats were the premier light hunter back when lights were invincible.

Specialized light hunters will appear again when lights become sufficiently dangerous.

[Victor Morson]

I really do think we should go back to our old climbing range (removal of the dead stops) while the slow down is amped up (so heavier 'mechs slow down even sooner).

If we have a situation where an Atlas crawls up a hill a Jenner can run up - but importantly both can climb the same hill - I think everyone everywhere will be happy.

[jay35]

I'd like to see the max climbable slope raised and just respread the current scale of slowdown to incorporate that without further reducing the minimum speeds, as they're already close to dirt slow on an Assault mech once you get to around 40 degrees. If they slow it even further it would start to get a bit silly. Let's fix the max slope first without worsening anything else and see how it plays out.

[Artgathan]

Light Hunting is a theoretical role which will never see the light of day. The problem is that Light Hunters are dedicating themselves to a very specific role (destroying light mechs) which leaves them under-armed when dealing with larger threats. There is no reason to tie up 200% more tonnage (you're throwing a medium down to kill a light) than the enemy to counter them.

That said, I think there is a reasonable need for an Interceptor-Type Mech. This is a fast moving mech (preferably with Jump Jets for increased mobility) with a hard-hitting payload that specializes in dealing a quick blast of damage before hurtling away. They're fast enough to engage lights by running to prevent caps and they have the weaponry to be a threat to heavier mechs as well.

Given current mobility restrictions an Interceptor could do quite well, vaulting over restricted terrain to engage lights back at base and then moving to do hit and run attacks on an enemy's flank.

[jeffsw6]

Victor Morson, on 07 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

If we have a situation where an Atlas crawls up a hill a Jenner can run up - but importantly both can climb the same hill - I think everyone everywhere will be happy.

I'm not saying Victor Morson is my secret forum alias that I use whenever I don't feel like selecting 48 point capslock bold, but I agree with him on most matters, including this one.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I think a big fix to this would be a 'lighter" deceleration curve. IE you're going full speed, you don't come to a near-instant stop while going up a 45degree angle, instead it takes a second or so to fully slow the mech.

This would still allow "rough terrain" to be a slow down, but it wouldn't completely stop a mech, while an extended slope [IE a mountian, or other taller, unclimbable surface] would still be unable to be climbed due to the over-all time it would take to climb the surface.