27 replies to this topic

[Tor Gungnir]

The details mentions "Shots per volley: 10" and the ammo states "Shots/Ton: 15".

Does this mean you only get one and a half shot per ton of ammo? That can't be right!

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

You get 15 volleys per tonne of ammo, each with 10, 1 point damage "pellets" that spread out. I realize they are meant to be much bigger than the word "pellet" suggests - perhaps fragments, or submunition?

The problem here is the English word "shot", which means both "one firing of a weapon" and "one pellet of a shotgun round" as well as dozens, if not hundreds, of other meanings.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 03 July 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

The LB10x

Tor Gungnir, on 03 July 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

The details mentions "Shots per volley: 10" and the ammo states "Shots/Ton: 15".

Does this mean you only get one and a half shot per ton of ammo? That can't be right!

The LB10x actually fires 10 projectiles in a shotgun pattern at one time. Each of the 15 shots in 1t of ammo fires their own separate 10 projectiles. So, 15 individual shots that each fire 10 individual rounds per shot.

Hope that clarifies things.

[Tor Gungnir]

I see. They really could've written that differently.

[Konril]

You get 15 shots per ton. Technically speaking, per ton you get 15 shotgun like shells with each shell having 10 single-point pellets. Actually, technical term for those is shot, hence the word shotgun. So each ton has 15 10-shot shells to shoot.

Okay, the wording is confusing. But really, a ton of LB-10x is worth 150 points of damage. It's just difficult to get it all to hit with the spread.

[Tor Gungnir]

I've got some extra ton. How are two LB-10X vs. one AC20?

[Koniving]

Tor Gungnir, on 03 July 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I've got some extra ton. How are two LB-10X vs. one AC20?

AC/20 focuses into one spot with 20 damage. LB-10x spreads out to many spots, totalling 20 damage. Where the LB-10 shines is the bonus damage after the armor is gone, but you must remove the armor first.

Edit: Bonus damage as in high chances of critical damage to internal weapons and ammo, able to destroy them before having to finish off the actual body part. Detonating the ammo helps quite a bit, too, adding all kinds of additional damage.

Edited by Koniving, 03 July 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Booran]

It's quite good againt faster mechs with exposed internals, as you can hit multiple areas to cause damage and don't have to be pin-point accurate.

[Dawnstealer]

Tor Gungnir, on 03 July 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I've got some extra ton. How are two LB-10X vs. one AC20?

AC20 does a LOT more pinpoint damage to one location, LB10X does less damage and more spread out. The difference is more in what you're targeting.

With the LB10, you're targeting either lights, where the spread helps a lot, or you're targeting areas of a larger mech where the armor's been stripped. With an AC20, you can aim, but whatever you actually hit is going to feel a lot of pain. The problem is in actually hitting them where you want to.

If you're a really accurate shot, the AC20 can't be beat for brawling. LB10 is more a specialty weapon, and good if you drop with friends over PUGs.

[Benjamin Davion]

Booran, on 03 July 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

It's quite good againt faster mechs with exposed internals, as you can hit multiple areas to cause damage and don't have to be pin-point accurate.

I view this kind of like hunting quail, which is DISTURBINGLY accurate when you've got Spiders and Jenners jumpjetting around your head. It's relatively easy to lead a light mech with the right build (CN9-D for me, with x2 SSRMs in place of the LRMs) and have him effectively run (or fly) into the burst. I say relatively because I know full well that at any given time hitting a light mech with the right pilot behind the controls can be like swinging a bag of bricks at a mosquito. Might get him, or he might just buzz around and bite you on the ***. God knows I've done that enough times. xD

[Booran]

I agree, a good pilot can and will dodge 90% of the shots you take at them even with a 20-foot shotgun.

Another use for it would perhaps be as a fast flanker, running around the blind side of assaults or lone boats and do a hit/run. If you can fit it, that is. And have a team helping you draw fire while you sneak about.

[Troggy]

The LBX10 is currently not better than the AC10, and two LBX10's are quite a bit worse than an AC20.

The reason is thus: The LBX10 is only better IF you would have missed with the AC10, but are close enough that the edge of the LBX round hits. Assuming your vertical aiming was correct (usually true for non-jumpers), or your horizontal (for jumpers), this means the maximum extra damage you can do is ~3. Of course the flip side of this is that sometimes where an AC10 would hit for full damage, some of the LBX pellets miss.

In my experience, the LBX has a higher hit percentage, but the AC10 has a higher damage per shot (not per hit, per shot taken). In other words the pellets that miss, more than make up for the extra 1-3 damage on near misses.

However, even if this isn't the case for a specific pilot, it is entirely not worth the chance at a few extra damage to lose all pinpoint ability.

EDIT: I know that this doesn't consider the crit mechanic. But this is not especially relevant for the LBX10 for two reasons. 1) Lights, with little ammo are relatively resistant to critting. It's usually easy to blow a body part then earn a crit. 2) The LBX "wastes" many of it's pellets against armoured sections. To be an effective crit seeker, it must either hit a specific part or have an ungodly crit modifier - the LBX has neither. In light of that (and the fact you need 3 damage for a crit kill), the AC10 (and even more so the AC/UAC5) are actually currently the better crit seekers.

--
Troggy

Edited by Troggy, 03 July 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Tor Gungnir]

I guess I'll stick to my AC20 for brawling with the big boys. Already got SSRMs for annoying Lights. Shame, I LOVE shotguns.

[Just wanna play]

i would just like to point out 2 lbxs can core something faster then one ac20 because sure each shot does less damage but you shoot far more often
PS lbx10 has a cockpit shake rating of 1.5 while ac20 has rating of 2
so 2 lbxs have 50% more shake then an ac20

Edited by Just wanna play, 03 July 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[C A R N A G E]

I run 3 lbx and 3 medium lasers and it just slays assaults face hugging them.I have had several complaints from a few atlas and a stalker that I was lagging them out due to the triple lbx explosions to the cockpit ,one atlas said I was dropping his frame rate below 5fps after I killed him.this is my main build for my lilya,its great for ambushing assaults and keeping the pesky lights away.I know a lot of folks say don't use the lbx but I really enjoy using them.:-)

[FireSlade]

A lot of people see that you have the LBXs and think of you as a joke but in my experiences I have killed more with them than with the AC10 (before the PPC meta bs). I do agree that they have more of an effect against bigger mechs since they have more to lose. Basically if you want to use LBXs you want to be 220 meters and under (might be further now, 220 was the farthest that I could reliably hit with all of the shots before the spread buff), treat it like a brawling weapon and you will be amazed. If you spend all of you time at longer ranges (most likely with the current meta) then the AC10 is better and if you can fit the AC20 and a few tons of ammo you would be stupid not to use it.

[C A R N A G E]

Lol I Kidd you not,right after I posted about the lbx I took my illya out for a stroll and had a match where I face hugged their atlas and crippled another assault before dying.that's one and a half assaults for one heavy.that's not too bad I guess for junky old lbx.lol to each their own.:-)

[Just wanna play]

C A R N A G E, on 03 July 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Lol I Kidd you not,right after I posted about the lbx I took my illya out for a stroll and had a match where I face hugged their atlas and crippled another assault before dying.that's one and a half assaults for one heavy.that's not too bad I guess for junky old lbx.lol to each their own.:-)

hmmm, what kind of assault exactly? because my buddy runs a dual lbx2 and 3 srm 6 atlas so that might not fall victim to your common cheese build, oh wait it uses lbxs lol what beats an lbx? an lbx!

[Koniving]

Also bringing this here simply because it's related.

Koniving, on 03 July 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

If this says anything, these are with twin flamers and triple LB-10xs.

The build.


The scores.

Spoiler

516. Several enemy PPC users here, the ones that didn't score so well were the ones I got to first.


Like above, another pugging match. This time 531. No PPC users. The YLW who scored the second highest had 1 AC/20 and 2 ML, and he last that AC/20 very early because I was one of the first people he ran into. Fastest YLW I ever seen, must've had an XL engine.


Another match. Score's pretty obvious. This time was in a 4-man (which usually puts us up against at least 1 4-man or a 3-man with a 2-man). Their team had a lot of LRMs guarded by a lot of AC/20 builds. Thankfully my shotguns reach farther than their AC/20s. For some reason all the Jagers had standard engines. Lucky guys.

A trick to note: For some reason if you just fire 3 AC/10s or 3 LB-10xs, they seem to do less damage than if you fire two, then one or if you fire them one at a time. The difference is rather astonishing. Don't fire them at the same time.

Don't know the reason but it is pretty testable; whether it's more scatter results, too many hits and some don't register, or what the story is, they just work better that way.

[Volume]

Most of the time I find a regular AC/10 to be better.