306 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

1453 R, on 14 July 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

This thread is ridiculous and embarrassing.

PGI specifically told us what they were doing with pulse lasers - the weapons were being standardized across the board in preparation for an upcoming pass on beam weapons. And yet here you guys are, b****ing at the company again for answers YOU ALREADY HAVE!

Wait. Wait and see what they do to energy weapons in the pass they told us was coming up, then harp on them. My God, I can't understand why they're even still working on this game with how poisonous and hateful you folks are...

You know.. Paul has used the term spreadsheet warrior back when the major missile nerf came along. LRMs and SRMs have been in a bad state for a while (LRMs have been getting love recently, SRMs, waiting for August to roll around).

Even Paul (or was it Bryan) said that Seismic was getting a nerf... well.. what happened to that?

I cannot trust balance to be done when it isn't actually being done in the first place. LPL was already in a niche spot, now moved into "joke/troll" build. You don't need MATH to show the results of a bad idea.

[jeffsw6]

1453 R, on 14 July 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

It doesn't make sense right now because you don't have the full equation.

Then why, 1453 R, did they ******* nerf it now? Why didn't they adjust it when they adjust the rest of the ****?

[Deathlike]

Here we go..

http://mwomercs.com/...irector-update/

From Bryan:

Quote

Balancing and Tuning

LRMs, SRMs, and Flamers will receive tuning passes in the first patch of this month. For mid-June expect to see more tweaks to the UAV consumable, and Seismic Sensors. Jump Jets will receive a weight based shake to add a more realistic feel and help to balance out some of the jump sniping meta game. Caustic Valley gets a lighting adjustment for the mid-June patch Expect to see more details about upcoming adjustments in the Command Chair section.

What did I miss? I forget if LRMs got a buff in June.. but the latter...

Well, at least we have the July Creative Director update... OH WAI...

[jeffsw6]

I see what you did there.

[Kenyon Burguess]

they adjust weapons in small clusters, then they collect data as people use/don't use them. for every bug or change a dev fixes/makes, 2 more are created. its the curse of game development so they need to watch them for a while. then they move on to the next cluster of weapons, afaik next will be a touch up to srms and ppcs.

[jeffsw6]

You can't collect any useful data on Large Pulse Lasers. The reason is because they are ******* terrible, and were just improved from ******* terrible to flaming bag of ******* terrible. When only clueless players will use a weapon, all data produced by it is useless (at best) or will lead to wrong conclusions (if interpreted by clueless developers who don't understand the concept of bad data.)

[Deathlike]

I recommend people boat LPLs and see how they fare in the current meta.

Report back if you believe you can win consistently with that.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 July 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[jakucha]

jeffsw6, on 14 July 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

You can't collect any useful data on Large Pulse Lasers. The reason is because they are ******* terrible, and were just improved from ******* terrible to flaming bag of ******* terrible. When only clueless players will use a weapon, all data produced by it is useless (at best) or will lead to wrong conclusions (if interpreted by clueless developers who don't understand the concept of bad data.)

That attitude doesn't help anyone. I'm a decent player and I use 1 or 2 for fun and to annoy people, yet still manage to do well in a nice ELO bracket. Granted I don't boat them, just 1 or 2 like I said, so they are getting some data anyway.

Edited by jakucha, 14 July 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Deathlike, on 14 July 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

I recommend people boat LPLs and see how they fare in the current meta.

Report back if you believe you can win consistently with that.

I had a guy try to convince me of this the other day. Don't challenge people to that, ever - they go out, kill some trial 'mech low ELO people than come on posting screenshots with honest captions like "See MGs are great I got 3 kills!"

Won't last 3 seconds against a proper 'mech, though.

Namais, on 14 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

How do you know you're in a given ELO bracket?

If it's not PPCs vs PPCs vs Gauss vs PPCs you're not in a high bracket, pretty much.

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 July 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[jakucha]

Namais, on 14 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

How do you know you're in a given ELO bracket?

How does anyone know? People say they're in good ELO bracket all the time, but ultimately can't prove it. I only go by how many trial mechs I don't run into, how many players torso twist, how much PPC spam there is, how many people aren't plain terrible, etc. I've also run into a decent amount of the players that are said to be really good on these forums by others here. Sometimes I dip into bad territory if I'm on a losing streak, but most of the time it's the former.

[Victor Morson]

jakucha, on 14 July 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

That attitude doesn't help anyone. I'm a decent player and I use 1 or 2 for fun and to annoy people, yet still manage to do well in a nice ELO bracket. Granted I don't boat them, just 1 or 2 like I said, so they are getting some data anyway.

If your build has Large Pulse Lasers your build is awful and will not last 2 seconds against proper 'mechs. It's sad, but true.

There was a time this was not the case. Then PGI nerfed them because they hate usable weapons and will not rest until they murder them all, apparently.

[jakucha]

Victor Morson, on 14 July 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

If your build has Large Pulse Lasers your build is awful and will not last 2 seconds against proper 'mechs. It's sad, but true.

There was a time this was not the case. Then PGI nerfed them because they hate usable weapons and will not rest until they murder them all, apparently.

I usually run a heavy or sometimes medium, so of course they won't last against the proper (read currently PPC spam stalker) mechs. Through using teammates and not being dumb I manage to do well with builds that use LPLs but don't focus on them.

[Victor Morson]

jakucha, on 14 July 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

I usually run a heavy or sometimes medium, so of course they won't last against the proper (read currently PPC spam stalker) mechs. Through using teammates and not being dumb I manage to do well with builds that use LPLs but don't focus on them.

You'd be better off in every way with regular Large Lasers, though.

[jakucha]

Victor Morson, on 14 July 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

You'd be better off in every way with regular Large Lasers, though.

I know. I just use them for fun and handicapping yourself to an extent and winning is always funny.

[Deathlike]

Victor Morson, on 14 July 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

I had a guy try to convince me of this the other day. Don't challenge people to that, ever - they go out, kill some trial 'mech low ELO people than come on posting screenshots with honest captions like "See MGs are great I got 3 kills!"

Won't last 3 seconds against a proper 'mech, though.

When I say "win consistently", I mean "win more often than not" (aka better than 1 to 1 win-loss ratio).

Without even attempting it, I know the answer is no (at least certainly for me). Even a solo AC20 on a mech is better than LPL, despite the requirements and ammo limitation.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 July 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

1453 R, on 14 July 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

It doesn't make sense right now because you don't have the full equation.

Maybe it'll make sense once you get the rest of the balance tweaks slated for the pulse lasers, which PGI openly admitted are being prepared for a balance pass that hasn't happened yet.

I get that screaming at Piranha, theatening people's jobs, and calling everyone in the dev team horrible names - and doing it over absolutely everything - are the 'in' thing for hip, jazzy forumites around here. But if you all just absolutely have to be howling, poo-flinging baboons as opposed to reasonable human beings, can you at least pick an issue that actually friggin' exists?

Then why didn't they wait until /they/ had the full equation ready to make the change, jumping the change prematurely makes absolutely no sense.

[MustrumRidcully]

1453 R, on 14 July 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

It doesn't make sense right now because you don't have the full equation.

Maybe it'll make sense once you get the rest of the balance tweaks slated for the pulse lasers, which PGI openly admitted are being prepared for a balance pass that hasn't happened yet.

I get that screaming at Piranha, theatening people's jobs, and calling everyone in the dev team horrible names - and doing it over absolutely everything - are the 'in' thing for hip, jazzy forumites around here. But if you all just absolutely have to be howling, poo-flinging baboons as opposed to reasonable human beings, can you at least pick an issue that actually friggin' exists?

I am not sure how I can say it any more elaborately or in a manner to understand you - but things just don't work that way.

Why implement only half of a change to weapon stats?
Maybe you're not aware, but the weapon stats are basically described in an XML table. Either they have the full picture on where LPLs are going to be, and implement that, or they don't.

[WolvesX]

I can not understand why peps still try to defend the LPL nerf.

It is just WRONG. And defing it is just sad. If you would have read this thead, you would have known why there is not reason at all.

[Roland]

Ya, the idea that LPL had to be made even worse than they already were (and they were already terribad weapons, easily one of the worst in the game) in order to set up some kind of "baseline" from which they could then later be improved was kind of nonsensical.

If there was some set of stats that they plan on moving to eventually, to make the LPL good, they could have just moved directly to that set.

[Deathlike]

A weapon must be at minimum 10x worse than it was before... before it gets better. That is the Word of Paul™. It is absolute.