77 replies to this topic

[BlackDrakon]

I think PGI is trying hard to make the missiles viable, at least we have a response from them by nerfing poptarting (you can still do it, but you really need skill now); the main problem I think they have is not applying the scissors/paper/rock analogy I posted a while ago.

For example, if you have a pre december 2012 SRM6 splatcat, the best way to beat him, is using range wpns (name them ppc's, large lasers, autocannons, etc.) if you have pre june patch poptarts, best way to beat them are pre december Open Beta LRM's damage, and if you have poptarts and lrms, the best way to beat them is having SRM's and get in CQB with them.

Yesterday, I had the best matches in months, I saw a variaty of mechs in pugs and 8 mans, we went into CQB and have the most fun brawls ever in this game (maybe not ever, but hell was fun to get in brawls again); there were sniper teams full of ppc's but without jumpjets, there were balance groups with brawlers, energy fire support, skirmishers and lrms, scouts doing their job (taggin and giving the team position of the enemy and capping, etc) I mean, it was fun. The only problem that remains are the SRM's.

We tryed to go full SRM's Brawlers/Skirmishers for like 4 drops, we got decimated even at CQB by ppc teams, not because we couldnt hit them, but because our damage was way 2 low with our SRM's to even match the damage output from the ppc and other wpns. I went toe to toe, for almost a minute against a very good 6 PPC stalker with my 5M (5ML and 5SRM6) and I just couldnt blow his torsos, I cored him, got him to red in both sides (he was a good pilot, he torso twisted very good) but I just wasnt able to blow his torsos with my SRMs. I used around 200 missiles to get him there, he was smart enough to run into cover and his teammates got me, but I mean, 2 tons of SRMs would have killed 3 mechs before.

After a few losses, we reconfigure our drop to a more balanced, ballistic and energy wpns, we ignored missiles, and we won most of the games with that configuration. So after trying hard for like an hour, I can assure you, SRM's are still broken.

I think PGI is in the right direction, but still SRM's need more love, a tweak in damage is the best bet if you cant treat them in a different way as LRM's (I stated in previous posts, that it seems like LRM's and SRM's are in the same code or whatever that they just cant treat them different in flightpath, everytime they nerf LRM's, SRM's get the nerf 2). So if you can increase damage in 2.0 per missile, I think we will get right into the point of when SRM's will be in pair of the Ballistic and Energy weapons.

Scissors/paper/rock analogy, is the simplest way to convert this. Once you guys in the Weapons Balance department hit it, will be up to the teams to make the strats work for every drop we get, and thats when the game will get the sweet flavor of intensity, adrenaline and feel of success that we need.

So, thx for fixing poptarting, but do not forget about the SRM's.

<S>

[General Taskeen]

Its not only that though, its also about making them unique. Viable/Unique just doesn't define how missiles work in the game imo. Look at the concept art to the right of the forum, that Stalker rippling firing either SRM's or LRM's, or on the concept with the Jenner firing SRM's at the damaged Hunchback. There are a ton of missile systems in Battle Tech too. SRM's at the moment act more like Rocket Launchers or MRM's from TT. Example below of missile variety in MW:LL:



SRM's are very good, staple brawling weapon in MW:LL - fire more straight, but also ripple fire as a pseudo-balance measure where you have to aim to land all missiles. I remember missiles worked like that in MW2 as well.

Edited by General Taskeen, 06 June 2013 - 03:51 PM.

[shabowie]

Just flat out need more damage at this point. It's really shocking that LRMs are now doing 1.1 per missile and SRMs are still only doing 1.5, they need to be doing at least 2 to be where they need to be. Maybe even back to 2.5 considering how spread out they are now.

Taskeeen's point about more interesting game mechanics is well taken, but until that time the math just isn't working with the current mechanics.

Edited by shabowie, 05 June 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Slab Squathrust]

I agree that srms are in serious need of a further damage adjustment. However, 2.5 and perhaps even 2 flat seem to great. Pwerhaps take them to 1.8 or 1.9 and see where they stand. If they need more then tweak em up by 0.1 damage a missile.

[shabowie]

Slab Squathrust, on 05 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

I agree that srms are in serious need of a further damage adjustment. However, 2.5 and perhaps even 2 flat seem to great. Pwerhaps take them to 1.8 or 1.9 and see where they stand. If they need more then tweak em up by 0.1 damage a missile.

1.8 is only .3 damage per missile, less than 2 extra points for an entire SRM6 volley, too small an increase.

SRMs were just fine at 2.5 and no splash. They are now pathetically weak. LRMs home and have much larger volley sizes so .2 increments of increase used there constituted much larger buffs.

Edited by shabowie, 05 June 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[Tegiminis]

I think damage could be left alone if they tightened the default spread. SRMs feel like a shotgun blast right now, and while that's cool, it could use a little less spread.

[Ayestes]

I actually think the spread is just fine right now, you can pretty much land every missile even at maximum range. The damage could use a bit of a boost though, especially when you look at the heat to damage efficiency. This all assumes they leave off the splash though.

[Vercinaigh]

Maybe if you learned more tactics than 700 ton death squads you'd have more resources to draw from .

Damage is too low, but that is only part of the much much grander scale issue.

[BlackDrakon]

Vercinaigh, on 05 June 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Maybe if you learned more tactics than 700 ton death squads you'd have more resources to draw from .

Damage is too low, but that is only part of the much much grander scale issue.

We had to test the SRM's, it was more likely a 535 tons of death, lol. And believe me, we are successfull with most of our drops, we have a very high win percentage with my banner around 82% and is not using 8 atlas that we succeed.

Back to the topic, I do think that the flightpath is still broken, is way better than before the patch, but I think the way they were a month ago was very nice. Having Artemis make them circle in a very nice way doing more pinpoint damage, and if you were not using Artemis, they used to fly straight but in a way better group.

Since (IMO) the flightpath is determined by LRM's (everything they do to LRM's screw up SRM's), I do think that the damage buff is the more realistic thing to ask for them to add, because I dont really think that they can fix SRM flightpath without touching LRM's.

[Sean Casey]

Flight path is good enough, but damage is way weak. I think going to 2.0 damage would be best. In TT SRM's did 2x per missile (1x for LRM and 2x for SRM), and now that LRM's are feeling pretty decent at 1.1 (although a bit CT focused still) and SRM's feeling a bit weak at 1.5, it seems to make sense that we try 2.0 and I have a feeling 2.0 will be spot on (2.5 would be too much, especially when boated).

[Slashmckill]

I just came from several matchs, one of which where i used srm's to try and out brawl a sniper mech.... needless to say it didn't do much. (only reason i won is because i aimed my cent-al's 2 large lasers straight to his cockpit.)

Srm's seem accurate enough now, not missing too much at max range but the damage is just not enough. It's far too risky to close in to use them right now, and the risk waaaay out weights the reward on them. However i wish that they would ripple fire based on # of missile tubes along with a damage buff.

Edited by Slashmckill, 05 June 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Mildiane]

I think SRMs are bugged now.

Just after the patch, I launched a game with my Splatcat (6 x SRM 6). At one moment I faced a Jenner that, for some reason, stopped less than 20 meters in front of me. I had the time to alpha twice, aiming its torso as it stood still, and ALL its parts had still yellow/orange armor. :'(

[shabowie]

I think missile HSR suffers from the same weirdness as ballistic where in certain situations something is still not working quite right and showing hits but you get a miss.

[Brilig]

I think once there is a fix for high alpha builds SRMs will come back into their own. The spread is good, damage feel like it is where it aught to be. The problem is closing to brawl distance with the high alpha snipers.

Edited by Brilig, 05 June 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[Tennex]

General Taskeen, on 05 June 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Its not only that though, its also about making them unique. Viable/Unique just doesn't define how missiles work in the game

i like that the SRMs are now unique mechanic from LBX.

they just need to buff it to where it is viable...

[Solomon Ward]

The spread feels good now but damage needs to be increased.

[Tennex]

Solomon Ward, on 05 June 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

The spread feels good now but damage needs to be increased.

they can't increase SRM damage without increasing sSRM damage because they use the same missile

[Solomon Ward]

Tennex, on 05 June 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

they can't increase SRM damage without increasing sSRM damage because they use the same missile

Damn Streaks.Remove them entirely

[Noesis]

1) Compare with SRM artemis use. Much more concentrated fire, but helps to eliminate boating effects due to more significant tonnage with more SRM launchers.

2) Hopefully the weapon heat scale initiative will help to reduce other weapon overall effectiveness (specifically high alpha energy weapons like the PPC and ERPPC etc) to actually make SRMs more attractive to use based on these changes elsewhere.

3) The danger with continuing to just push SRM damage is you could end up with the cheesy splat cat problems we have previously experienced with boated SRMs.

[aniviron]

Noesis, on 05 June 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

1) Compare with SRM artemis use. Much more concentrated fire, but helps to eliminate boating effects due to more significant tonnage with more SRM launchers.

2) Hopefully the weapon heat scale initiative will help to reduce other weapon overall effectiveness (specifically high alpha energy weapons like the PPC and ERPPC etc) to actually make SRMs more attractive to use based on these changes elsewhere.

3) The danger with continuing to just push SRM damage is you could end up with the cheesy splat cat problems we have previously experienced with boated SRMs.

Good news! When the splatcat was king, we had no good long range weapons except for gauss, and no ac40 jags to compete with them in that range/weight class. Now that splatcats face the danger of just dying to ppcs and gauss when they trundle across the battlefield, the risk of playing one becomes much higher for less of a reward than there used to be. Furthermore, where it used to be the case that nothing could compete with 36 srms up close, an ac40 would certainly do the job.

I'm also curious why it is that it's unacceptable for a mech boating 6 srm6 to be effective in its range bracket, but it's totally okay for a stalker to roll out with 6 ppcs and be equally effective.