268 replies to this topic

[Purlana]

Legolaas, on 07 July 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Even large lazer ac5 ac10 and so on? Rofl

Large lazer / ac5 = brawler weapons? AC10's, have you used them...? Hint: In TT ac5s have a min range, lol brawler weapon!

Edited by Purlana, 07 July 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[Aaron45]

Purlana, on 07 July 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Every weapon except medium lasers and AC/20s?

This reminds me of a joke.


Car driver on a highway listening to the radio.

Radio station is saying: Attention to all drivers. theres a ghost driver at the highway #3.

Says the driver to himself: What only one? there are hundreds of ghost drivers

Edit: thats the way ppl argue if it comes to the ppc. the ppc is ok - 90% of the brwaling weapons are broken eh?

Edited by Legolaas, 07 July 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[Purlana]

Legolaas, on 07 July 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

This reminds me of a joke.


Car driver on a highway listening to the radio.

Radio station is saying: Attention to all drivers. theres a ghost driver at the highway #3.

Says the driver to himself: What only one? there are hundreds of ghost drivers

Yep that's why everyone is boating LBX/10s, AC/10s, MGs, Flamers, SRMs, Streaks and small lasers. Am I right guys? What's that in the distance? A bird? A plane? No it's more PPCS and the odd GR!

Edited by Purlana, 07 July 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[jeffsw6]

Le0yo, on 06 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

the "balanced" build idea is such a rubbish fantasy. This is a team game and guess what?

You are right, 4-man and 8-man play must be perceived as balanced lances or teams.

For example, my best 4-man matches were always 3 PPC boats and 1 AS7-D-DC brawler. The reason is obvious; any enemy clever or lucky enough to sneak up on the PPC boats got quickly owned by the Atlas. That became tougher to do when SRMs were broken, but even still, one ECM brawler to defend your boats is way better than four mechs that each have a "balanced build."

SleepTrgt, on 06 July 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Either everything is in poor state besides PPC or PPC are just too efficient?

A lot of weapons are broken, but yes, PPC are too good. If PPC (and GR) are fixed it will generate better information on what other armaments need to be adjusted.

For example, I think AC/2 may be over-powered because of its effectiveness at both short- and extreme-range, as well as its high DPS; but we won't know until the PPC and GR are not the most obvious and effective weapon choice.

FactorlanP, on 06 July 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

The problem occurs when only ONE role (boated PPC/Gauss sniper) is so dominant that bringing ANY other build puts you at a severe disadvantage.

Yep! That brawling Atlas I mention above? Its job is to stand there and give ECM, most of the time. Every once in a while, it is useful for fighting something, but only as a support mech for the boats.

Roland, on 06 July 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

As long as those other weapons are markedly inferior to the gauss and PPC?

Yes.

And eventually, those other weapons can then be buffed up until they are competitive.

I don't think other weapons should be buffed so they are competitive with PPC. Mechs die real fast already. We should want the dominant weapons to be nerfed, not the other way around, IMO.

[SilentWolff]

BlueSanta, on 06 July 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426363372

This is the link for their two games against the Smoke Jaguars, who entirely boated PPCs. The spanking was terrible. They got the PCC message loud and clear.

To be fair, the 3rd game we played them we used light mechs and missles and no PPC boats. The spanking was terrible because they are terrible players, moreso than any issues with PPC's.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Good they learned what all us solos know. Its no fun out there most often. Either give us the option of solos only or ingame voip with a lounge before the drop. It will certainly give solos and noobs a chance. There is no chance now with the stompers and cheese teams.

[Aaron45]

jeffsw6, on 07 July 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

I don't think other weapons should be buffed so they are competitive with PPC. Mechs die real fast already. We should want the dominant weapons to be nerfed, not the other way around, IMO.

Agreed.

[BlueSanta]

SilentWolff, on 07 July 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

To be fair, the 3rd game we played them we used light mechs and missles and no PPC boats. The spanking was terrible because they are terrible players, moreso than any issues with PPC's.

To be fair, they should spend their time developing this game, not playing it as much as some of us do, which is why they should consult with experienced, quality players instead of dedicate their time to becoming one.

[Aaron45]

BlueSanta, on 07 July 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

To be fair, they should spend their time developing this game, not playing it as much as some of us do, which is why they should consult with experienced, quality players instead of dedicate their time to becoming one.

When ya talking about quality players do you mean yourself?

[Coralld]

scJazz, on 06 July 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think the thing that worried me most was when one of the PGI guys was all like... look at all those PPCs I can't wait until Paul implements his heat multiplier nerf. I wanted to scream! That ill-advised stunningly stupid massively missing the point balancing trick is quite certainly even higher on the list of Top 10 Dumbest Game Design Decisions... even higher than EvE's Walking In Stations for an Internet Spaceship game and that one was just astonishingly dumb!

As much as PGI frustrates me to no end for MWO, I completely HATE CCP for EvE. If people here are complaining about slow patch roll outs and bad content implementation then you clearly have never played EvE, either that or they were playing the game with rose tinted glasses by using the Ammar or Minmitar. Here is an example on how bad CCP is. There is a faction in EvE called the Gallente Federation. In the early days of EvE they use to be very good but not broken. But from there all their ships were hit with nerf bat after nerf bat and or simply were left behind while they made the other 3 factions and their gear better and better, or implemented game mechanics that benefited the other factions but screwed the GF. The Myrmidon BC when it first came out was good, really good, actually to good, but when a CCP dev got their 4ss handed to them by it they then decided to nerf it into the ground. I mean sure it could have used a small nerf to balance it but no, they had to make it all but useless.
You guys want to know how long it took CCP to come out with a actual buff for the Gallenete faction? 5 years!! That meant for 5 years hardly any one would use the GF ships for almost anything.
And that's just the tip of the ice burg.

PGI on the other hand rolls out lackluster patches every 2 or so weeks that are aimed to help balance but never really solving any kind of issue in the balance department, at least they are trying (And I use the word "try" loosely.) but at least they are doing something about it. My biggest problem with PGI is that they are taking their plan A idea which is usually overly complicated and fails to address the core issue, even though there are people on here with their plan B which are far more simpler and actually does something.

[Aaron45]

Coralld, on 07 July 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

As much as PGI frustrates me to no end for MWO, I completely HATE CCP for EvE. If people here are complaining about slow patch roll outs and bad content implementation then you clearly have never played EvE, either that or they were playing the game with rose tinted glasses by using the Ammar or Minmitar. Here is an example on how bad CCP is. There is a faction in EvE called the Gallente Federation. In the early days of EvE they use to be very good but not broken. But from there all their ships were hit with nerf bat after nerf bat and or simply were left behind while they made the other 3 factions and their gear better and better, or implemented game mechanics that benefited the other factions but screwed the GF. The Myrmidon BC when it first came out was good, really good, actually to good, but when a CCP dev got their 4ss handed to them by it they then decided to nerf it into the ground. I mean sure it could have used a small nerf to balance it but no, they had to make it all but useless.
You guys want to know how long it took CCP to come out with a actual buff for the Gallenete faction? 5 years!! That meant for 5 years hardly any one would use the GF ships for almost anything.
And that's just the tip of the ice burg.

PGI on the other hand rolls out lackluster patches every 2 or so weeks that are aimed to help balance but never really solving any kind of issue in the balance department, at least they are trying (And I use the word "try" loosely.) but at least they are doing something about it. My biggest problem with PGI is that they are taking their plan A idea which is usually overly complicated and fails to address the core issue, even though there are people on here with their plan B which are far more simpler and actually does something.

True i didnt loose my faiths into pgi either.

[IceSerpent]

Legolaas, on 07 July 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

This reminds me of a joke.


Car driver on a highway listening to the radio.

Radio station is saying: Attention to all drivers. theres a ghost driver at the highway #3.

Says the driver to himself: What only one? there are hundreds of ghost drivers

Edit: thats the way ppl argue if it comes to the ppc. the ppc is ok - 90% of the brwaling weapons are broken eh?

The fact that most short range weapons are broken has nothing to do with PPCs - you can remove PPC/Gauss from the game completely and brawling weapons would still remain broken with AC20/LL builds being the new FOTM.

[BlueSanta]

Legolaas, on 07 July 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

When ya talking about quality players do you mean yourself?

I'm not in a clan/mercenary group and don't play 8 mans on a daily basis, but I have played over 5,800 games since Open Beta began. I could articulate my thoughts on balance well, but PGI should sample opinions from a lot more players than just me. They have our ELO numbers and all of our stats, so they know who they should listen to better than any of us do.

[Kattspya]

DaZur, on 06 July 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

You know... I'm all for voicing concern and even inciting discourse when it comes to this game and our critique and criticism.

Sadly, this community has taken this to an extreme... I get it. I get that you are frustrated, I get that you are disappointed and I get that you feel as if PGI is essentially ignoring you.

That said, apparently it's not enough to state this plainly... Apparently every comment must be dripping with contempt and laced with caustic levels of vitriol.

It's extremely disappointing that it's viewed as being justified to behave like a bunch of ingrates when having the opportunity to play with / against the devs...

I'm not going to play apologist for PGI... They've clearly been their own worst enemy... That said, This does not in any way excuse the bullyish behavior that seems to be the new maxim of behavior if you disagree with the state of MW:O.

I don't understand the logic... One one hand, you demand PGI to be more forward and involved with the community. Then on the other hand so many of you treat them with such contempt and disdain... Not real sure how you think this will encourage community interaction but I assure you even professionalism has it's limits and I think you've long exceeded it.... And before anyone proclaims it's our right as consumers to act like raging jags... We don't and no the customer is not always right.

I know this little commentary falls on deaf ears, will net me plenty of flames and will not amount to a hill of beans. That said, I'll feel better having said it...

I agree with your point fully but I can not be positive because I pay them, this is their job, they should be professional. They are not professional, they snark and they do basically nothing that moves the game forward. They have done nothing to deserve the benefit of doubt. They have done nothing do deserve anything else but neutral. I wish I could be the last but I can't

What happened in the video in chat I can not condone and I wouldn't have done the same but I understand why. I can only imagine how boring and stale organized play has gotten especially with seismic mucking things up further.

I was patient and stated things plainly once and I'm willing to bet that the same goes for the most vitriolic posters. Somehow that goodwill ran out. Why is that and what is being done about it?

vkornov, on 06 July 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Oh, look at you trying to justify the obsessive need to use the "easy win" button and play this game like any other FPS out there. You guys who want to play "competitive" stuff go play it separately (preferably on a different server). So that you can play with the same sort of player you are. Who doesn't min having PPC on every mech they've got in their mech bay. Then call yourself an elite or pro or whatever. If you are the best of that sort of mech pilots. I'm all for it.

Also, all the fair\not fair, cheese\not cheese, fun\not fun, douche\not douche stuff is a mental concept. If you like to abuse the **** of this game when you are allowed to may be it's you who are in a mental corner. Actually, I'd call that corner a toilet.

In a game where anyone can equip anything it is fair to bring all PPC. PPC's aren't balanced but they are fair.

Minmaxing will never go away and competitive players will never go away. Your kind of complaint have been said for every patch for every game since the dawn of something more complex than pong. What you want is private servers with admins that enforce fun. Too bad you picked the wrong game for that. But bark up the right tree: convince the devs to make lobbies or a stock mode (which would boil down to mechs with OP weapons anyhow). Thinking you can forum post your way away from cheese is naive in the extreme.

[jeffsw6]

IceSerpent, on 07 July 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

The fact that most short range weapons are broken has nothing to do with PPCs - you can remove PPC/Gauss from the game completely and brawling weapons would still remain broken with AC20/LL builds being the new FOTM.

You are largely correct, and that is why it's essential that PGI -- go back in ******* time to 4 months ago -- and nerf PPC/Gauss so they can have useful data on other weaponry. Sadly, that is not possible.

This game has 7 energy-weapons, 7 ballistics, missiles, Flamers, Machine Guns, PPC/ERPPCs, and missiles. Decent players know that virtually every weapon is hopelessly broken. If ERPPC/PPC/GR were removed it would probably reveal that only the following weapons work well:

• ML
  
• LL
  
• MPL (situationally on strikers)
  
• AC/20
  
• AC/2
  
• UAC/5 and AC/5 (debatable but unproven)

So the basic truth is, there are arguably 7 weapons that arguably work right, 3 that are extremely over-powered, and 11 that are totally broken, PLUS ALL MISSILES which are broken.

And PGI wonders why the forums have been a river of flame for 4 months.

Did you know a Streak SRM can actually work itself into a circular pattern around a mech without hitting it, just going in circles? Play a mech with SSRMs equipped and you'll see it happen every few games or so.

[Purlana]

What really makes a weapon broken / are high alphas when paired with perfect convergence. PPCs, GRs, and AC/20s are the prime targets. The reason PPCs and GRs are king, is that they also have the added benefit of range.

[Kattspya]

Purlana, on 07 July 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

What really makes a weapon broken / are high alphas when paired with perfect convergence. PPCs, GRs, and AC/20s are the prime targets. The reason PPCs and GRs are king, is that they also have the added benefit of range.

That is not a broken weapon that is broken game flow or broken systems.

Edited by Kattspya, 07 July 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[hammerreborn]

jeffsw6, on 07 July 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

You are largely correct, and that is why it's essential that PGI -- go back in ******* time to 4 months ago -- and nerf PPC/Gauss so they can have useful data on other weaponry. Sadly, that is not possible.

This game has 7 energy-weapons, 7 ballistics, missiles, Flamers, Machine Guns, PPC/ERPPCs, and missiles. Decent players know that virtually every weapon is hopelessly broken. If ERPPC/PPC/GR were removed it would probably reveal that only the following weapons work well:

• ML
  
• LL
  
• MPL (situationally on strikers)
  
• AC/20
  
• AC/2
  
• UAC/5 and AC/5 (debatable but unproven)

So the basic truth is, there are arguably 7 weapons that arguably work right, 3 that are extremely over-powered, and 11 that are totally broken, PLUS ALL MISSILES which are broken.



And PGI wonders why the forums have been a river of flame for 4 months.

Did you know a Streak SRM can actually work itself into a circular pattern around a mech without hitting it, just going in circles? Play a mech with SSRMs equipped and you'll see it happen every few games or so.

I would argue putting streaks and LRMs in there as well. Streak cats can still instant nuke lights, and was done to me last night.

And LRMs are in a good place right now, just look at any game with UAV used or a good spotter.

Edited by hammerreborn, 07 July 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

So, if I get this right, we're all discussing how a normal 8 man team that uses tactics and cohesion along with the PPC/Gauss meta trounced a bunch of PGI devs who admitted to 1) not playing in an 8 man team all that often, 2) not being very good, and 3) using mechs of varying loads that do NOT follow the meta? On top of that, you find it odd that devs, who you have no idea what their job titles are (they could be low level interns for all you know), complained about the PPC/Gauss meta? Its a wonder that some of you even have the capacity to turn on the computer let alone type semi-coherent sentences complaining about this crap.

[Purlana]

Trauglodyte, on 07 July 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

So, if I get this right, we're all discussing how a normal 8 man team that uses tactics and cohesion along with the PPC/Gauss meta trounced a bunch of PGI devs who admitted to 1) not playing in an 8 man team all that often, 2) not being very good, and 3) using mechs of varying loads that do NOT follow the meta? On top of that, you find it odd that devs, who you have no idea what their job titles are (they could be low level interns for all you know), complained about the PPC/Gauss meta? Its a wonder that some of you even have the capacity to turn on the computer let alone type semi-coherent sentences complaining about this crap.

#1. PGI 8 man group is bad? #2. Fall in line the PPC meta or die? #3. All of the above!

Edited by Purlana, 07 July 2013 - 10:56 AM.