268 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

scJazz, on 06 July 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think the thing that worried me most was when one of the PGI guys was all like... look at all those PPCs I can't wait until Paul implements his heat multiplier nerf. I wanted to scream! That ill-advised stunningly stupid massively missing the point balancing trick is quite certainly even higher on the list of Top 10 Dumbest Game Design Decisions... even higher than EvE's Walking In Stations for an Internet Spaceship game and that one was just astonishingly dumb!

Well, at least that PGI member be sadly mistaken soon. Gotta understand how people build mechs first before saying silly stuff.

[SecondReversal]

Legolaas, on 06 July 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

They even didnt get one kill out of 10-15 matches. Reason?

"PPcs are disgusting"

"Paul your game is inbalanced and broken"

Lets see how they ll nerf the ppc´s

now they probabyly saw how incredible effective or Op ppc´s are and these so called elite Players only use that broken Op weapon.

Pgi dudes used balanced loudouts like all fair and real good players use but the ennemy team was using cheezy Loudouts like hell. Cheers to the so called "elite players" or competitive Loudouts".LULZ

i

Never reproduce

[Bagheera]

Jabilo, on 06 July 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

On this basis you could demonstrate some patience and not be quite so harsh.

Sure, we could. On the other hand we have been saying this since April, so you'll forgive us if our patience has worn thin. This also does not address comments from other developers that everything is fine and dandy.

[xengk]

Is this on twitch tv?
I cant find the video.

[Hekalite]

Bagheera, on 06 July 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Sure, we could. On the other hand we have been saying this since April, so you'll forgive us if our patience has worn thin. This also does not address comments from other developers that everything is fine and dandy.

What he said. Everyone is entitled to a vacation, but it takes two seconds to delegate a task to one of the other developers. There are many more straightforward balancing tools available. There was no need to leave the game in this state so long even if they wished to explore other alternatives which required new features.

[Aaron45]

xengk, on 06 July 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Is this on twitch tv?
I cant find the video.

http://www.twitch.tv/piranhagames

[Zoghak]

xengk, on 06 July 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Is this on twitch tv?
I cant find the video.

http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426363372
http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426369933
http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426379176

[xengk]

Legolaas, on 06 July 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

http://www.twitch.tv/piranhagames

oh a different channel.
I usually watch IGP.

thanks Zoghak

Edited by xengk, 06 July 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Bagheera, on 06 July 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

This.

When Russ Bullock is saying idiotic things on Twitter like "You are an island, the game is in its best state ever" when people ask him questions about the current raft of problems, yeah, then the solution is to spank the ever loving crap out of them whenever they play with the most broken aspects of their game.

And, frankly, if the players whipping their ***** were telling them how terrible their current game balance is at the same time, even better.

Sorry PGI, but PPCWarrior is just boring.

But the problem is, you're arguing against a subjective statement. To me, this is the best state the game has been. Not even 3 months ago you couldn't even hit people with those ppcs that everyone is using, lights were still neigh unkillable, and half the **** in the game was broken. There were less maps, heat vision was the king of sight beyond sight, and giant glaring HUD/UI bugs that caused at least one or two people a match to crash.

Ya...I think even with all the weapon balancing issues this is the best state the game has ever been in. Because even though PPCs are OP as ****, on the most part THEY ACTUALLY WORK.

Edited by hammerreborn, 06 July 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[CancR]

The only way this game is going to see balance is with tonnage limits.

Can't have a soccer team where every one play centre
Can't have a chess game if you fill the board up with the queen piece.
Cant win in SC by only making one unit.

Only the bad players who will fold like a a 2,8 don't want tonnage limits because when they don't have 7 other guys who do 40+ alphas when they miss and shut down they die and are exposed as frauds.

[Bagheera]

hammerreborn, on 06 July 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

But the problem is, you're arguing against a subjective statement. To me, this is the best state the game has been. Not even 3 months ago you couldn't even hit people with those ppcs that everyone is using, lights were still neigh unkillable, and half the **** in the game was broken. There were less maps, heat vision was the king of sight beyond sight, and giant glaring HUD/UI bugs that caused at least one or two people a match to crash.

Ya...I think even with all the weapon balancing issues this is the best state the game has ever been in. Because even though PPCs are OP as ****, on the most part THEY ACTUALLY WORK.

The problem is that (and there is a screen shot somewhere in this section of the forum that I am referring to) he was responding specifically to someone asking a balance question, not a technical "does stuff work" question.

I should have been more specific (as usual); I'm stating that the dismissive tone of it is idiotic. He should have at least acknowledged the balance concerns in addition to the "pat on the back" for the folks who have resolved the technical state of the game. It's the blanket "everything's fine, you are alone in your opinion" of the response that I find indicative of the need to spank them with their own mess, as it were.

Yeah, stuff works, but it's boring to play because the balance is bad. There's more to game design than resolving bugs.

Edited by Bagheera, 06 July 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Sephlock]

Nasty McBadman, on 06 July 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Well, did the PGI players use builds that were truer to the longstanding lore of battletech? Are "competitive" players using PPC boating as an "instant win" crutch rather than really attempting to challenge themselves by using balanced builds? Is abusing an imbalanced game mechanic actually helping with the beta phase of this game?

Yes. Yes. And most definitely YES.

[MustrumRidcully]

PGI devs don't have to be good at actually playing their game.

Their balance team (aka Paul?) just needs to understand it well enough to identify what makes something powerful or weak and how he can tweak things that they are appropriately powerful and balanced.

That doesn't mean they'd make good tacticians, or good shooters. To get that,y ou need a bit of talent and a lot of experience playing the game, and they are more busy programming the game than playing it.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 06 July 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[Sephlock]

CancR, on 06 July 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Can't have a soccer team where every one play centre
Can't have a chess game if you fill the board up with the queen piece.
Cant win in SC by only making one unit.

1: Someone never did any pickup games of soccer as a child

2: Someone never played the classic chess sims (the games were poopy but you could do it .)

3: ZERGLING RUSH!

[General Taskeen]

scJazz, on 06 July 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

even higher than EvE's Walking In Stations for an Internet Spaceship game and that one was just astonishingly dumb!

Well yeah, that would be way lower. I saw no problem with that addition to EVE, its just content.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Nasty McBadman, on 06 July 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Well, did the PGI players use builds that were truer to the longstanding lore of battletech? Are "competitive" players using PPC boating as an "instant win" crutch rather than really attempting to challenge themselves by using balanced builds? Is abusing an imbalanced game mechanic actually helping with the beta phase of this game?

As an example, Garth's favorite build (I've dropped with him randomly maybe four or five times and only seen this build) seems to be the CDA-2A with 6ml. And yes, abusing a mechanic around PGI to shows its ineffectiveness. The proof is how few of them actually bother to play thesedays and how opposed they are to using cheese.

Personally, I don't mind cheese builds when they are alone, but the fact is, BT has always been balanced to have a majority of mediums with one or two assaults/heavies/lights per team filling niche roles. In MWO, an 8-man team composition is more like three assaults, three heavies, one light and one medium. It's a fattie's meta and it's killing balanced gameplay more than any amount of weapon misbalance ever could.

Size distribution must be fixed, or no amount of weapons balance will ever be effective.

[Aaron45]

MustrumRidcully, on 06 July 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

PGI devs don't have to be good at actually playing their game.

Their balance team (aka Paul?) just needs to understand it well enough to identify what makes something powerful or weak and how he can tweak things that they are appropriately powerful and balanced.

That doesn't mean they'd make good tacticians, or good shooters. To get that,y ou need a bit of talent and a lot of experience playing the game, and they are more busy programming the game than playing it.

There were many ngng guys. I´d call them pro gamers as they play games for decades

Edited by Legolaas, 06 July 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[xengk]

Zoghak, on 06 July 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426363372
http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426369933
http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426379176

don't know who these guys are, never seen them on forum.

I play 100% PUG, but these guys are REALLY bad.
friendly fire, standing still, doesn't torso twist, LRM under 180m, overheating

[CancR]

Legolaas, on 06 July 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

There were many ngng guys. I´d call them pro gamers as they play games for decades

I wouldn't call any one on the NGNG 'pro' Maybe at mechassault.

[jeffsw6]

Nasty McBadman, on 06 July 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Is abusing an imbalanced game mechanic actually helping with the beta phase of this game?

Yes.
You need players to equip the best armaments they can, climb up those crystals in Tourmaline to snipe, outright exploit the game in ways that aren't allowed to be discussed on the forum, and so on, in order for PGI to see these problems and fix them.

No one is "hurting the game" by using PPCs, or "abusing" thermal vision, or blinding their enemies by chain-firing SSRMs, or shaking opponents' cockpits so much that they can't possibly return fire by mouse-macroing quad AC/2s. These are all flaws in MW:O that can't be fixed if players don't discover, and to an extent, abuse them.

Chavette, on 06 July 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

The movement nerf is nice in concept, but only thing it really did to the meta is further encourage turret like, stationary assault boats. This is certainly not a time you'd want to do this.

Its a shame they don't see simple relation between functions and their effects.

Dude, but they've nerfed the over-powered Large Pulse Laser now, "bringing it in line" with other pulse lasers. Clearly this has some relation to other aspects of the meta, and we're just not smart enough to see it. PPCs will be fixed any day now, as soon as all players realize they are "boring" and stop equipping them.

Waking One, on 06 July 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

It's good that they play the game, for moments like this, so they see how things really are and can then adjust.

Trolling them and telling them, in their faces, that their game sucks is bs tho.

They have continued to ignore easily-fixed problems for months while, at the same time, crapping on their community and coming up with a new $80 content pack that gives players far more than Founders got for similar money.

I'm not sure why you think that behavior is deserving of politeness.

scJazz, on 06 July 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think the thing that worried me most was when one of the PGI guys was all like... look at all those PPCs I can't wait until Paul implements his heat multiplier nerf. I wanted to scream! That ill-advised stunningly stupid massively missing the point balancing trick is quite certainly even higher on the list of Top 10 Dumbest Game Design Decisions... even higher than EvE's Walking In Stations for an Internet Spaceship game and that one was just astonishingly dumb!

QFT

Jabilo, on 06 July 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Normally I would agree with the sentiments of this thread.

However, Paul has already made a post saying that he has been on holiday, that changes have ALREADY been made to remedy the situation and that they simply need to be added to a build and pushed through the QA procedure.

On this basis you could demonstrate some patience and not be quite so harsh.

Jabilo, let me remind you: http://mwomercs.com/...erver-downtime/

Paul Inouye, on 21 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS MESSAGE:
This is a TEMPORARY fix to quell the damage done by missiles at this time. We are fully investigating the damage model AND focusing on the grouping of missiles and will update as soon as we can on how any changes will be managed/implemented.

So how about those missiles? Oh, right, they are all still broken.

Fixing the PPC problem is very ******* simple. They choose not to do it because they are so ignorant, they don't think it is a problem.

Edited by jeffsw6, 06 July 2013 - 10:05 AM.