268 replies to this topic

[Hexenhammer]

Hellen Wheels, on 06 July 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

You all seem to be laboring under the false assumption that PGI and IGP somehow CARE whether this game is balanced, whether it adheres to BT (except to the extent it remains MINIMALLY VIABLE), and whether or not you or I think one thing or another.

The sooner you realize that only one thing matters to Zack and Russ and Paul and the other founding cronies of this clusterfark--($$$$)---the sooner you will come to be at peace with yourself for having been hoodwinked by their false promises.

They couldn't give a smaller rat's *** how they do in the games they have to play with the customers, and they don't give a **** about the MW franchise. They are laughing all the way to the bank, my friends. Enjoy the ride.

Coming from a legendary founder I find this post ironic.

[Blackfoot]

Its not that PPCs are OP, its that all the other weapons are useless in comparison.

Watch, all you crybabys that want PPCs nerfed will be screaming for them to get buffed when all the other weapons finally get useful.

This community has no sense.

[vkornov]

Blackfoot, on 06 July 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

This community has no sense.

This community understands PPC are not the problem they are a symptom. Pinpoint high alpha is the problem. And all the stuff that makes it possible or plays to its advantage. Like the recent movement change implementation (not saying the idea was wrong).

[mike29tw]

Blackfoot, on 06 July 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Its not that PPCs are OP, its that all the other weapons are useless in comparison.

LMAO isn't that the definition of OP?

[Waking One]

vkornov, on 07 July 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

This community understands PPC are not the problem they are a symptom. Pinpoint high alpha is the problem. And all the stuff that makes it possible or plays to its advantage. Like the recent movement change implementation (not saying the idea was wrong).

PPCs would still be too good. too easy to fit and too cool for their strength

but yes, concentrated alpha is indeed the main problem here

oh and the community is dumb as bricks, occasionally something decent comes out but most of it (like most of this thread) is horrible

[vkornov]

Waking One, on 07 July 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

PPCs would still be too good. too easy to fit and too cool for their strength

PPC is just another weapon that can be balanced. There are significant issues that make balancing very hard. So don't pick on any weapon type, think deeper.

[MustrumRidcully]

SleepTrgt, on 06 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

So lets stop using every weapon but PPC + Gauss
To me its simple if you go with for example group of 4 ppl only ppc boating, suddenly the game feels super easy
Sure its not only PPC also might be convergence and such, but every weapon has pinpoint convergence and PPC stands out in any way.

For example more Heat could be enough.

We can't change what is "aquadynamic" so that our Olympic Swimmers have more choices.

But PGI can change the game so that there are more choices other than PPC boat with optional Gauss Rifles.

Ideas are around a lot, and I dare say, many of them would even work. (Some might bring their own new, challenges, but that is then, and this is now, and now is PPC meta.)

[MustrumRidcully]

SilentWolff, on 06 July 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

For the record, every MW game has had pinpoint accuracy. This is nothing new. PPC's aren't operating any differently from past MW games.
The problem is, in past MW games you had lasers to combat PPC's. Lasers were a huge counterweight to PPC's, because they were insta fire damage as well. Now, PGI has made them damage over time and I think this is a big reason why PPC's seem to some people, to be OP. You no longer have that counterbalance and it exasperates the problem.

And it always lead to the same result - boating. Maybe with a few more weapon options for what you boat, but mixing weapons (and I am not event alking about mixing ranges or stuff like that) never worked well.

It would be nice to see a Mechwarrior title that gives some reasons to not just boat.

[Windies]

Hexenhammer, on 06 July 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Coming from a legendary founder I find this post ironic.

However ironic it is, it's for the most part very true.

[Windies]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 July 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

And it always lead to the same result - boating. Maybe with a few more weapon options for what you boat, but mixing weapons (and I am not event alking about mixing ranges or stuff like that) never worked well.

It would be nice to see a Mechwarrior title that gives some reasons to not just boat.

That will never happen without heat penalties and actual balancing mechanics rather than trying to paper balance everything. What they are doing is simply balancing from the source I.E. each individual weapon, which given the nature of min/maxing, will always lead to some superior FOTM build or weapon that will always outperform in any situation because there are no other limiting factors to weapons besides DPS and Heat.

Heat is nothing more than a dynamic scale of how much or how many times you can fire in a given time period. IF heat actually had consequences other than a simple hard limit of shutting down when you reach 100%, you would see more valid uses of different weapons depending on those consequences and how they affect each weapon system.

For example, say as a consequence of heat at 75% heat your HUD shuts down. For a brawler this wouldn't be a huge hindrance or issue because you are so close you can guesstimate where to shoot. However for a PPC sniper, trying to guesstimate your shot on a specific component at 500-700 meters without a crosshair would be mildly to extremely difficult depending on player skill more or less. It's just a simple example, but it shows how you can change the game play using dynamic balance rather than static or hard balance.

I mean there are lots of things you could do, movement penalties, convergence penalties to shunt some of the focus from high alpha rinse and repeat sniper builds, torso twist speed penalties etc....

Edited by Windies, 07 July 2013 - 01:27 AM.

[mike29tw]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 July 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

We can't change what is "aquadynamic" so that our Olympic Swimmers have more choices.

But PGI can change the game so that there are more choices other than PPC boat with optional Gauss Rifles.

Ideas are around a lot, and I dare say, many of them would even work. (Some might bring their own new, challenges, but that is then, and this is now, and now is PPC meta.)

I beg to differ here. Theory crafting is easy and fun, but unless we actually put those ideas to test(cough...public test server), you'll never know whether it works or not.

Personally I think most of the ideas proposed to "fix" the PPC/Gaus issues will break a lot more stuff than it's intended to fix.

[XxEDGExX]

No one actually minds weapon nerf's as someone stated a few posts ago , The flavour of the month weapon changes with each nerf but it may actually be worth buffing some of the other weapons before any nerf happens for a more balancing game. I mean look at the Lrm's for instance, they were stupidly easy mode then they were nerfed that much it was like rocks being thrown at a mech and now they are ok but unless they have artemis are easy to dodge.

Personally I think the overall problem is the fact that 90% of the brawling weapons are way under powered for the damage you take on getting in close to your target , I personally don't take brawling mech's but I know when a shotgun awesome (srm 6 boat) or even a brawling atlas used to rush me id be in trouble if he was in my face. As it currently stands I can have a guy with either of the two mechs face to face and im not even worried anymore because I've damaged that person on the way in and I know im not gonna take enough damage to die before I kill them. whether I have ppc's / gauss or large lasers, Maybe if you don't wanna buff the brawling weapons you could invoke say a higher chance to critically hit a mech and take out components?

[Kaspirikay]

pretty much this^

not enough brawler burst anymore

[Aaron45]

vkornov, on 07 July 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

This community understands PPC are not the problem they are a symptom. Pinpoint high alpha is the problem. And all the stuff that makes it possible or plays to its advantage. Like the recent movement change implementation (not saying the idea was wrong).

Dude you dont get the point that only ppc´s can core you in one second once you pass a corner to have a look,. thats the annoying and obnixious part. you ll be cored if not dead by 6 ppc within 1 corner moove at the very early of the game. No other weapon combination can do that. 6 large lazer need some secs to do the dmg. PPc doesnt.

so once ppcs are a bit nerfed (maybe 1 more heat) you wont see that you get instantly cored withing the beginning of the match

Waking One, on 07 July 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

PPCs would still be too good. too easy to fit and too cool for their strength

but yes, concentrated alpha is indeed the main problem here

1 more heat + the penalty for 3+ ppc would solve the instantly get cored problem

mike29tw, on 07 July 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

LMAO isn't that the definition of OP?

indeed

Edited by Legolaas, 07 July 2013 - 05:34 AM.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

OP please go back in school its unreadable

[Aaron45]

XxEDGExX, on 07 July 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Personally I think the overall problem is the fact that 90% of the brawling weapons are way under powered for the damage you take on getting in close to your target

Really 90%? can you tell us which weapons you mean with 90%?

Edited by Legolaas, 07 July 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[Hekalite]

Blackfoot, on 06 July 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Its not that PPCs are OP, its that all the other weapons are useless in comparison.

Watch, all you crybabys that want PPCs nerfed will be screaming for them to get buffed when all the other weapons finally get useful.

This community has no sense.

No. It's not that one thing is too powerful, it's that everything else is underpowered. Yeah right. Engagements are too short (and that's with double armor already). So you want them to be even shorter by buffing everything else? At least you are right about one thing, this community has no sense...including you.

For those who don't seem to understand what balance is, it's not about nerfing the current FOTM into the ground. It's about offering choices. There should be a variety of play styles that are competitive. Look at how many weapons we (technically) have to chose from for god's sake. The very existence of a FOTM is proof of an imbalance and it always has been.

Currently MW:O is essentially a solved game at least in spirit (https://en.wikipedia...iki/Solved_game). That's another little quirk of human nature...we hate solved games, they are not fun. And yes, I just compared MW:O to tic-tac-toe.

[Purlana]

Legolaas, on 07 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Really 90%? can you tell us which weapons you mean with 90%?

Every weapon except medium lasers and AC/20s?

Edited by Purlana, 07 July 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[Aaron45]

Purlana, on 07 July 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Every weapon except medium lasers and AC/20s?

Even large lazer ac5 ac10 and so on? Rofl

[XxEDGExX]

Legolaas, on 07 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Really 90%? can you tell us which weapons you mean with 90%?

no point responding with the weapons a your comments seem more hostile focused to players who are just giving there thoughts on the game and to me.

also most of the players who give there thoughts on here have played every other mech game before this so have a general understanding of what needs adjusting to get some sort of balance as they want to see the game succeed and not fail before official launch.