67 replies to this topic

[Sephlock]

Lavos: the original PPC boat.

[Bushrat]

This is great feedback. Please check out my other poll on general 'weapons balance'. I want more feedback on it.

[Urdnot Mau]

My thoughts on PPC: The combination of their advantages make them OP (weight, crit slots used, the way that damage is done). The only drawback is their recharge rate, wich some might say that it's actually a good thing because this way people are forced to stand down and cool off.

PPC vs LPL : Wich require more skiil to use ? LPL ! why ? Try holding you aim at the same hitbox for 1 second on a moving target. Now, try predicting the targets movement pattern and hit him. Well, the result is: You might even do the same damage at the end of the match, but you won't hurt your enemy the same. But if you use a PPC, if you hit your target you know that those 10 points will be dealed in the same spot and will make your enemy think more about his movement, etc. To use PPCs people need to be good at calculating the enemy's future position, wich is easy with practice. To use lasers, people need to find a good hand coordination (between moving your own mech and you aim) and at the same time deal with terrain.

What i think: They should generate MORE heat and use more space (like AC 10 maybe). This, combinated with heat penalty will make other builds more desarable and will make boaters sacrifice A LOT, like 2 x AC 20s do. You wanna play hardcore ? You gotta pay the tonnage and the heat.

[Roland]

Quote

PPC vs LPL : Wich require more skiil to use ?

You are comparing the best weapon to one of the worst weapons.

[Bernard Matthaios]

Appogee, on 06 July 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

PPCs aren't too powerful.

Boating of PPCs is powerful.

Fix convergence, and fix heat penalties, and PPCs will be fine.

This

[Livewyr]

If boating is the problem.. why aren't I seeing 4xAC10 jagers?

[FupDup]

Livewyr, on 06 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

If boating is the problem.. why aren't I seeing 4xAC10 jagers?

Because of extreme weight requirements (outclassed by the 2xAC20 at most ranges for both weight and damage) and the lack of enough slots in each arm.

[Gaan Cathal]

The problem isn't the PPC. The PPC is just the best weapon to take advantage of the problem with. The problem is that you can place very high damage impacts in on compartment perfectly with very little effort. Compounded by the fact that weapons that require increasing amounts of skill to use provide no commensurate increase in effectiveness.

I.e. high pinpoint damage numbers + ease of hitting targets with said + comparatively weak time-on-target weapons

[Livewyr]

FupDup, on 06 July 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Because of extreme weight requirements (outclassed by the 2xAC20 at most ranges for both weight and damage) and the lack of enough slots in each arm.

(Was more a rhetorical question)

Now: Why do I see 4-6 PPC Stalkers, heck even 4 PPC Jagers, but NOT 4AC10 Jagers...

[Unbound Inferno]

Livewyr, on 06 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

If boating is the problem.. why aren't I seeing 4xAC10 jagers?

Size and weight. You can't boat that because of the crit slots and ammo requirements.

Gaan Cathal, on 06 July 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

The problem isn't the PPC. The PPC is just the best weapon to take advantage of the problem with. The problem is that you can place very high damage impacts in on compartment perfectly with very little effort. Compounded by the fact that weapons that require increasing amounts of skill to use provide no commensurate increase in effectiveness.

I.e. high pinpoint damage numbers + ease of hitting targets with said + comparatively weak time-on-target weapons

That is true partially, however it is PPC that is still broken with too little heat cost for what it does.

[Gaan Cathal]

Livewyr, on 06 July 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

(Was more a rhetorical question)

Now: Why do I see 4-6 PPC Stalkers, heck even 4 PPC Jagers, but NOT 4AC10 Jagers...

Because the 2AC20 Jaeger does the same damage as a 4AC10 Jaeger at the latter's optimal range, and more in close, for less damage. And don't tell me you don't see plenty of those. The AC10 is weak, you're only one step above asking why you don't see 6MG Spiders or 9Flamer Hunchies ripping it up.

Unbound Inferno, on 06 July 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

That is true partially, however it is PPC that is still broken with too little heat cost for what it does.

I'm not saying that the PPC couldn't do with maybe a heat increase and a slower projectile (and bullet drop for that matter) but that's not "the problem". That's a slight weapon imbalance. "The problem" isn't just 4PPC Stalkers. It's 3PPC+1Gauss Highlanders and Victors too. It'd be 4PPC RSs if you deleted the Stalker from the game tomorrow. Put the King Crab in and you'd see 2Gauss+1PPC (maybe +2?). AC/40 is just as much of an issue, it's just less of a direct problem right now because you can't do it in anything heavy enough to do it without being made of paper.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 06 July 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[FupDup]

Livewyr, on 06 July 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

(Was more a rhetorical question)

Now: Why do I see 4-6 PPC Stalkers, heck even 4 PPC Jagers, but NOT 4AC10 Jagers...

Because PPCs have a lower risk (lighter weight, fewer slots, easier to aim projectile, longer range) and their extra heat "downside" doesn't really matter because repeated shutdowns/running hot aren't penalized (and also because 4AC10 is just physically impossible right now and obsolete to AC/40 anyways).

Edited by FupDup, 06 July 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[Deathlike]

Livewyr, on 06 July 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

(Was more a rhetorical question)

Now: Why do I see 4-6 PPC Stalkers, heck even 4 PPC Jagers, but NOT 4AC10 Jagers...

No mech can do the 4 AC10 dakka... yet.

Have a Jager while pondering that.

[Solis Obscuri]

Individually? No, they're fine individually. ERPPCs are a bit stronger, but individually still pretty much ok.

The issue with PPCs is how easy it is to alpha large groups of them, or large groups of them combined with Gauss Rifles, for massive pinpoint damage. That needs to be addressed.

Also, laser hit detection needs a fix.

FupDup, on 06 July 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

their extra heat "downside" doesn't really matter because repeated shutdowns/running hot aren't penalized

Yes it is. Exceeding a heat threshold is now cooking internals, regardless of whether or not you shutdown.

[Livewyr]

That would suggest that "boating" isn't the problem.. the WEAPONS are the problem.

(Ballistic 3x "Over-range" renders AC10 obsolete)
PPC "downside" being nerfed to a minor consideration..

Seems other weapons don't really earn hatred being boated.
Never hear of people complaining about the 9Laser Hunchback that has the same alpha as my Highlander.. probably because the Medium Laser is balanced,

[kesuga7]

hard point restrictions would be cool because supposedly the Awesome is supposed to be a vangaurd/PPC support mech

Hardpoints in torso so it has to stick all the way out to snipe (and what a torso

Hardpoint restriction with the proposed pgi plan to increase heat on 3+ ppc's would be very nice to curb dem boats (only a slight heat increase maybe to or none at all)


anyway didn't you need a targetting computer to efficiently hit a target past a certain range (600 meters plus? even with a ppc and zoom tho ) i wouldn't mind waiting to get a 'lock' to hit a mech at 900 meters

[Gaan Cathal]

kesuga7, on 06 July 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

anyway didn't you need a targetting computer to efficiently hit a target past a certain range (600 meters plus? even with a ppc and zoom tho ) i wouldn't mind waiting to get a 'lock' to hit a mech at 900 meters

I really wish they'd:

a: reintroduce time-to-convergence
b: make you converge to the distance of your locked target

[Unbound Inferno]

Gaan Cathal, on 06 July 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

I really wish they'd:

a: reintroduce time-to-convergence
b: make you converge to the distance of your locked target

Oh I agree, but there is a couple problems.

First off it already converges to either where your cursor points and the target mech. It'll adjust to converge automatically (and near instantly) to that range - cause where your target mech is is where your cursor is you don't notice it. Unless you don't lock on and just barely miss the target mech and see it converge in the distance.

Also PGI is like so many other companies out there - they hate admitting they are wrong. At some point they removed that duration lag - its highly unlikely they'll add it in. Although I think it would be a good idea, at least in a stopgap manner of speaking, but the system needs an overhaul as it is.

[FupDup]

Solis Obscuri, on 06 July 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Yes it is. Exceeding a heat threshold is now cooking internals, regardless of whether or not you shutdown.

No it isn't. Internal damage only takes place at 120% heat or higher. Go back and read the patch notes.

http://mwomercs.com/...29-02-jul-2013/

Edited by FupDup, 06 July 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[Livewyr]

FupDup, on 06 July 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

No it isn't. Internal damage only takes place at 120% heat or higher. Go back and read the patch notes.

http://mwomercs.com/...29-02-jul-2013/

And it's miniscule.