256 replies to this topic

[Boris The Spider]

Not really mudhut, its exactly the opposite, anybody who gives any sound reasoning why segregating the queues is a bad idea is promptly ignored or they are labelled a pug-stomping exploiter. I have brought up the situation of casual players who use voice comms twice now on this thread, but nobody seems to care about them in the slightest.

I want PGI to fix the system so that when I drop 3+4 vs 4+4 the solo player slot on one team isn't occupied by a new player in a trail Atlas, that slot should be occupied by a seasoned player in a custom mech. Conversely I do not want that new player in a trail Atlas instead to be dropped against a bunch of seasoned solo players in custom mechs.

A solo queue stops the matchmaker filling our game, removes appropriate level opponents for casual and low Elo grouped players and provides no benefit what so ever to the new players, the only people it benefits long term are experienced players who choose to drop solo for an easier time farming new players.

[Ghogiel]

Mudhutwarrior, on 09 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

This is a profit center and the final decision is with PGI not you. They are aware of it by now I am sure. The stomping of their staff sure started the discussion.

The drubbings PGI devs have received in the 8man queue where there is no match making restrictions are one side. The other is having 4 manned with and against many devs, solo and premade, in the regular queue where there is match making, I would imagine they are liking how one queue works rather than the other. That isn't doing your cause any favors.

And since PGI has stated that solo players will be 'filler', Elo is working well and so on just further drives it home.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Ghogiel, on 09 July 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

The drubbings PGI devs have received in the 8man queue where there is no match making restrictions are one side. The other is having 4 manned with and against many devs, solo and premade, in the regular queue where there is match making, I would imagine they are liking how one queue works rather than the other. That isn't doing your cause any favors.

And since PGI has stated that solo players will be 'filler', Elo is working well and so on just further drives it home.

And as "fillers" we wont be investing anytime soon. If they are that stupid to consider new players and solos fillers then they deserve the unemployment checks they will receive when this goes under. Out of seven people I got to join all seven left. None spent a dime on what they say as poinless and way to steep a hill to climb. Having only true beleivers support this will not work in the long run.

[Ghogiel]

Mudhutwarrior, on 09 July 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

And as "fillers" we wont be investing anytime soon. If they are that stupid to consider new players and solos fillers then they deserve the unemployment checks they will receive when this goes under. Out of seven people I got to join all seven left. None spent a dime on what they say as poinless and way to steep a hill to climb. Having only true beleivers support this will not work in the long run.

Another the game is dieing (or going to) because evil premades are stealing all the fun post.

They have said the player numbers are increasing steadily... :shrug:

[armyof1]

Ghogiel, on 09 July 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

They have said the player numbers are increasing steadily... :shrug:

The discussion about solo queue or not aside, you seriously believe that? Because I sure don't. If it was true they'd have no problems showing the current active players counter, but even now with a steady increase of players it's still not showing.

[DogmeatX]

Oh dear. You should have no choice if you want to be cannon fodder or target practice "filler"? be honest you know how "well" the filler/cannon fodder invariably tend to get treated by the premades (overall)

It's not hard. Give players the choice. Go solo queue or team up with someone and join the team queue. End of story. If you want to be cannon fodder/filler then maybe add a checkbox "join the team queue always" so you can CHOOSE to be gap filler/cannon fodder.

So

1) Solo only queue
2) Team queue (where all the premades go)
3) Option for solo people to opt in to the team queue to fill/balance the side numbers.

Those of us who like teamplay will continue to team up (and probably still get stomped somehow or other) but then at least the solo players won't think they got stomped by premade group with an unfair advantage (unless they opt into the team queue then they know what's coming). It's all about perception...

Edited by DogmeatX, 09 July 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[HeavyRain]

The stompers can rest assured. PGI will never implement a solo queue because solo players are there to provide easy kills for the stompers.
It's part of the product value, they give PGI money to paint their mechs in "unit" colours, they buy mechbays for that extra PPC boat, soon they will pay to run their make-believe merc corps, they expect to WIN, not get stomped by some elite tryhard group. Best way to win, provide some lone rabbits in their hunting grounds.
Do you know of many organized safaris where the paying hunters don't come home carrying game? They won't be back for the next safari if that happens.
Most of the stompers are not nearly as good as they think and this is proven time and time again when they happen to drop solo, but there is strength in numbers and then it makes those dollars invested really worth it.
Give up your dreams of a queue for solos, money does the talking here and the organised players are more likely to spend money on this game, if you take their stomping fun away maybe they won't buy the next $100 super-value bundle.

[Ghogiel]

armyof1, on 09 July 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

The discussion about solo queue or not aside, you seriously believe that? Because I sure don't. If it was true they'd have no problems showing the current active players counter, but even now with a steady increase of players it's still not showing.

Doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what PGI believes. If they think solo queue would bring them more money they'd be all over it. There is zero evidence that it would and zero evidence that they think it would.

Edited by Ghogiel, 09 July 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[armyof1]

Ghogiel, on 09 July 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what PGI believes. If they think solo queue would bring them more money they'd be all over it. There is zero evidence that it would and zero evidence that they think it would.

Eh yeah, totally not a shread of an answer to my question.

[Disapirro]

HeavyRain, on 09 July 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Give up your dreams of a queue for solos, money does the talking here and the organised players are more likely to spend money on this game, if you take their stomping fun away maybe they won't buy the next $100 super-value bundle.

Not sure I agree with this. I am not rich, but I am at a point in my life that

a ) I can and will drop a few hundred dollars without thinking twice if I perceive it to be a good value for the utility I recieve from it
b ) I don't have the time or desire to be in the real serious groups that play all the time and want a more casual experience

My point it, I have a feeling that the more casual players are probably more like me, 30's-40's, have families and less time apply to this game, but have money to drop in a big way, compared to younger more serious players, and will if they are having fun.

With that in mind, I would say that if money is the reason for all that drives how this games evolves, than I believe that a good amount will be left on the table if the more casual gamer's experience is not also bettered.

Edited by Disapirro, 09 July 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Howdy Doody]

If the base can support it, I like the idea.

....but I'm not really worried about it now. Lets see how CW is.

[Blackadder]

xDeityx, on 08 July 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

My beef with the idea is that it is a bad one that is based in emotional knee-jerk reactions rather than actual data. People lose and want something to blame it on, that's all this is. I don't want PGI wasting time with something that won't accomplish anything.

As I've already pointed out in my previous post, having a premade team has been shown by studying hundreds of thousands of games to be a negligible advantage until you get to the higher levels of competition. Even then only a full premade has any real advantage, a partial premade (the equivalent of an MWO 4-man) has only a very slight advantage if any. And that's with League of Legends where there is unarguably much more strategy and teamwork happening because the game is actually balanced as opposed to the MWO situation where everybody is taking the same PPC boats.

Also if the player base became large enough to handle another split, I'd want it to be a more constructive split like another game mode.

Not when you're beating a dead horse like this one. This is a non-issue according to the massive amounts of data on the subject.

Your confusing competitive teams with experts imo. To be an expert at a game, does not require you to be the top %, it just requires you to be a long term player who understands the basic and advanced concepts of the game. A group of long term players will gain an advantage over people who do not drop as a group, especially when new players are thrown into the mix. How much of an advantage is debatable, and how much impact it has is also dependent on a range of variables.

The biggest thing though, is that LOL has one of the best matchmaking systems around, and has perfected it over the years since its release. I would have to think that the MM system itself has an impact on how much advantage a group has or does not have to some extent. So while LOL has shown that its current system works very well, a poorly designed and run system like the one MWO uses, is probably open to much more deviation due to player actions. I have not played LOL in a few years, but my understanding was that solo que, you were bracketed into a game with players in the same bracket more or less? Team que was an aggregate of the team ? While MWO attempts to work under the same system, its either failing or the brackets are to large, because running solo i can see quite often where players who have no concept of the basic game mechanics are in my matches on either side. When i group with my clan mates, its like clubbing baby seals

While i agree with you that splitting the player base now, is probably not a workable solution, the fact remains, that PGI should have created a simple group and solo que in closed beta, and implemented some reasonable limitations on how new players learn the game, and if it wants to help its new player base in order to retain customers it needs to do something now, not just ignore then problem.

[Ghogiel]

armyof1, on 09 July 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

Eh yeah, totally not a shread of an answer to my question.

You want to know what I think> you are assuming things that there is no evidence to believe are true. You've filled in all the gaps and gave an explanation as why there is no players online counter based on pure assumption. That explanation holds no credibility and I do not believe those claims.

[Purlana]

Other FPS games don't have solo only Qs and for good reason. Settle for a drop lobby already, it's the best solution.

Edited by Purlana, 09 July 2013 - 06:43 AM.

[armyof1]

Ghogiel, on 09 July 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

You want to know what I think> you are assuming things that there is no evidence to believe are true. You've filled in all the gaps and gave an explanation as why there is no players online counter based on pure assumption. That explanation holds no credibility and I do not believe those claims.

Yeah because you believe fully in PGI, it's not like they've taken back things they said before or anything. It's up to you if you want to believe whatever they say, personally I'd rather believe in so many organized players seeing members dropping off constantly and TS servers getting fewer players by a wide margin compared to a couple of months ago. But meanwhile the player count is increasing. Yeah I don't think so.

[Lugh]

Ghogiel, on 09 July 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

They had huge selling multiplayer games on consoles before people really even had internet. I'm talking mario kart in the early 90's and console adding 4 joystick ports as standard or multitap addons. Ultima online is like 5 years late to the party.

Please I had M.U.L.E on the c64 and it rocked. And that was 1982.

[Mudhutwarrior]

"Thats what PGI told us" Really?

So like Monsanto is looking out for the people at large too.


Got love the true believers. They can kill bussinesses and countrys in no time at all. At least their good for laughs.

[Taemien]

armyof1, on 09 July 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

Should change it to a 8-man only queue for premades and a solo queue. Because if every premade had 8 players then this problem isn't a problem anymore. See what I did there?

Difference was, I wasn't trolling.

8man only queue and solo queue would mean many people would quit and the game would die. At least with a lobby, A couple of friends who are one or two short could pick up a random and go. Needing 5-6 to drop wouldn't be so easy. But you apparently haven't played the previous titles (or remember how they were) to know that.

[soarra]

Taemien, on 09 July 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Difference was, I wasn't trolling.

8man only queue and solo queue would mean many people would quit and the game would die. At least with a lobby, A couple of friends who are one or two short could pick up a random and go. Needing 5-6 to drop wouldn't be so easy. But you apparently haven't played the previous titles (or remember how they were) to know that.

This.
if if had to drop solo or only 8 man i would not play much if at all
i like playing with friends and if we don't have 8 on we have to all solo queue, no thanks

[Ghogiel]

armyof1, on 09 July 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Yeah because you believe fully in PGI, it's not like they've taken back things they said before or anything. It's up to you if you want to believe whatever they say, personally I'd rather believe in so many organized players seeing members dropping off constantly and TS servers getting fewer players by a wide margin compared to a couple of months ago. But meanwhile the player count is increasing. Yeah I don't think so.

I never said I believe PGI for a second. I just don't believe you either.