82 replies to this topic

[zraven7]

MavRCK, on 10 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

That's a key point.. choose a mech chassis where 3 chassis are viable and fun to master.. nothing is more frustrating than grinding on a brutally tough chassis just to get master on another variant...

ie... good: jenners - all 3 chassis are easy grind and do dmg with and level..

bad: Raven3L is the best so far.. the other chassis are rough and expensive to level!

Looking at the 4 mechs, all have variants that can provide similar builds across 2 or more of the variants in the line. The Centurion, you don't get your ballistic on one, but you can do a PPC and get similar effect. The Catapult can mount at least 2 high-yield racks of missiles on 3 models. All of the Cataphracts can do ballistic or energy effectively.

Now, on the Hunchback, at least a couple of the models require you to mix up your build a bit, but all can be made with effective builds.

Yeah, It really does seem like these are some of the more friendly entry mechs in the game.

I do think the Jagermech isn't a bad choice, either, but I just think that the Catapult fills a similar role with a bit more of a user-friendly nature.

[Deathlike]

Here's my current recommendations for a first mech:

Light:
Jenner - It's much cheaper overall to upgrade and most components are transferable between variants. JJs are invaluable in the current meta.

Spider (alt) - The skill requirement is over the top high, but if you spend on both a XL255 and a STD 250, you should be fine. This isn't recommended for beginners.

Medium:
Hunchback - All the best builds can easily be covered by the cadet bonus. STD engines are required for survival, but most benefit from cost considerations. The only skill consideration is with the "hunch" where you will suffer greatly if you don't torso twist and become a support player... because mediums are unforgiving in general.

Centurion - This is probably one of the few mechs that can't be easily be one-shoted unless you keep staring straight into the opponent. The only expensive variant is the Cent-D, but the best builds on the Cents overall require STD engines. Torso twisting is imperative to keeping weapons operational and allowing long range/stronger weapons to stay effective (Cent-AL with PPCs or LLs or the Cent-A with a Gauss Rifle benefit from good torso twisting). Otherwise you will be limited to short range which is where the mech thrives for the most part.

Heavy:
Catapult - You can survive on the default engine you get on all builds (STD 260), so you can minimize your costs. It's probably optimal to start with the K2 since you can work on your direct fire skills whereas the other variants will require other skills... the only major issue is the cockpit, which can be a source of fustration.

I have no alternative options for heavies, as they have various different weaknesses and associated costs that make them wholly undesirable as an initial mech... maybe a Cataphract (focusing mostly on the 3D, but even then...)

Assault:
Stalker - This sounds like some sort of 4 PPC recommendation, but it's not. For the mech to be functional, it must be running a STD engine and those are a lot more affordable (you'll probably want to get a STD 270 or 300 at some point). The primary focus is all around heat management and building a mech that addresses that (don't be surprised if most loadouts must have a total of 20 DHS).

I have no real alternative options for assaults at the moment, but I'd have to see the Victor's c-bills costs posted before I can see viable options (I mean, they come with a STD 320 by default, so you might be able to do stuff with that).

Edit:
One more mech that I had kinda reconsidered was the Cicada. If you go for the Cicada-3M first, you can build something relatively simple and reuse the XL320 that it comes with on the other variants. The STD 320 on the other Cicadas are great for a future Assault mech (well, specifically the Atlas) or could be sold outright for a bit of cash. It does suffer from being big though.. but you are most effective when you use it like any light mech (because... it is an overweight light).

Edited by Deathlike, 10 July 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[Hebdomas]

I'm not sure I would recommend a Catapult for a first mech. The K2 is very flexible, but is almost the odd man compared to the other variants. The other variants have a heavy emphasis on missiles which represent a large difference in playstyle from the K2. If someone buys a K2 and likes it, but learns that they don't like missiles what are they supposed to do when it comes to making their mech elite? Play through two variants they aren't going to like?

The Cataphract seems like a decent choice at first glance, but it too has its problems. One is the lack of LRM options. The 2X has two missile hardpoints but only 4x2 tubes which isn't enough to effectively and efficiently LRM. The 4X is almost a cruel joke with its missile hardpoint in the head giving you only one slot to work with, in terms of LRMs you can only equip a LRM5 which will just get shot down by AMS. The second issue is their focus on ballistics. If it turns out you don't like ballistic weapons you have a lot less options to make a build. Sure you could try to cram several PPCs or large lasers in a 1X or 3D, but other mechs can probably do that better and it just doesn't seem right to use a cataphract for that.

I also have some issues with the hunchback. Mainly the same problem most people have with them, most of the firepower is located in the hump/hunch (except the 4SP) and people love to shoot at it. The other issue is minor, but hunchbacks don't make good candidates for XL engines. (Just wanting to keep all options open.)

This leaves the Centurion which would be my choice. Across the variants you have ballistics, energy, and missile hardpoints. They're also safer than hunchbacks to mount an XL engine in.

[Deathlike]

The Catapult C1 can be a jump sniper (poptart) and psuedo energy boat... but the A1+C4 does force you do choose your missile choice... at this point you could survive on Streaks or SRMs (however bad that sounds) or at least play with LRMs... it's the sure fired way of being forced to learn how they work.

[Johnny Reb]

zraven7, on 08 July 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

Ok, everybody, time to be proactive here. We get a lot of people wondering what a good "first mech" is, and why they are good, and what they should spend c-bills on, and so forth. I'm thinking whoever wants to should get on here and offers their opinion of a good first mech, or good first mechs, or whatever really. The big thing is to just get opinions rolling to give people an idea what they might wanna look at.

Do take time to explain why you think a given mech is a good first mech. Don't just throw a list up here, but point out what about the critter you believe to be good traits.

For ease, don't do specific variants, but name whole model lines. Try to think of models with several playable and fun variants, so the new player can enjoy getting basic and elite efficiencies.

Also, this is NOT meant to compete or conflict with the already established "Mech Tier List" thread on here. That is a competitive list ranking mechs for higher level play. This is meant specifically to help new players to get a first mech they will enjoy, and that will help them to enjoy the game.

Feel free to discuss answers, but as always, keep it civil and helpful.

I'm gonna do one per weight class, just to get the ball rolling.



Ok, for the Light class, I have to go with the Commando. Yes, it doesn't do anything another Light can't do as well or better, but it does do almost everything. The only thing it doesn't have is jump jets and ballistic, and ballistic isn't really a needed thing among lights anywho. They are fast and fairly easy to pilot, they have great hardpoints, and they are indeed the cheapest mech in the game. A new player can get three Commandos for close to the price of one heavy or assault. They are solid, and they are cheap, and people keep playing them.


For the mediums, I hate to do this, but it's a tie between the Hunchback and the Centurion. The Hunchback has a lot of variants, all of which are at least viable, and really gives the experience of piloting a heavy with the cost of piloting a medium. Centurions are just all around good mechs that you see in all tiers of play. Everyone I know who has a Cent still pilots it, and generally does well with it.

For Heavies, have to go with the Cataphract. It's for similar reasons as the Cent or the Hunchback. It has viable variants, allows for a good variety of builds, can take a beating, and even has a Jump Jet model. Also, I still hold that the Ilya Muromets is one of the best Hero Mechs in the game, so if they fall in love with their Catas, they can grab one of those.

Assaults are getting harder to peg as they release more varied models, but I still have to go with the Atlas. It's only down sides are a lack of Jump Jets and a tendency to get focused. Other than that, it's one of the most versatile weapon platforms in the game, and even has an ECM model. The Highlander does come in a close second, but I could see it's somewhat-wonky hardpoint placement being odd to a new player.

Again, these are opinions, and are focused towards a newer player.

Alright guys, throw em out there.

My choices:
Jenner-D, good mix of laser and missle with jj.
Cent-A, got all the wep slots and very forgiving.
Heavy, I would say ask someone else. For a new person, maybe the Cataphract-3D, then its hard to have buyers remorse.
Assault, Atlas d-dc, if you want to try on an assault might as well get the most versatile. Ecm helps the team and can run alot of the same builds other Atlases can.

[Skydrive]

Deathlike, on 10 July 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Edit:
One more mech that I had kinda reconsidered was the Cicada. If you go for the Cicada-3M first, you can build something relatively simple and reuse the XL320 that it comes with on the other variants. The STD 320 on the other Cicadas are great for a future Assault mech (well, specifically the Atlas) or could be sold outright for a bit of cash. It does suffer from being big though.. but you are most effective when you use it like any light mech (because... it is an overweight light).

I like to call them Fat Alberts. If you've seen the movie, you would know what I mean by that.

Hebdomas, on 10 July 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

This leaves the Centurion which would be my choice. Across the variants you have ballistics, energy, and missile hardpoints. They're also safer than hunchbacks to mount an XL engine in.

Out of all of the 50 tonners, the Trebuchet is by far the safest to stuff an XL engine in.

[Just wanna play]

Tor Gungnir, on 10 July 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

SSRMs>SRMs

Just sayin'

SRMs are far too much heat for too little bang! SSRMs on the other hand can be a very valuable tool. It is great as a "Light deterrent" on a big Mech.

what you talking bout?? srm6: 4 heat 9 damage... medium laser 4 heat 5 damage.......

[Ph30nix]

zraven7, on 08 July 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

Ok, for the Light class, I have to go with the Commando. Yes, it doesn't do anything another Light can't do as well or better, but it does do almost everything. The only thing it doesn't have is jump jets and ballistic, and ballistic isn't really a needed thing among lights anywho. They are fast and fairly easy to pilot, they have great hardpoints, and they are indeed the cheapest mech in the game. A new player can get three Commandos for close to the price of one heavy or assault. They are solid, and they are cheap, and people keep playing them.

I agree the commando is a good starter light and frankly id say its the best mech to start with PERIOD.
First its one of the only lights that has full actuators in its arms and and multiple hard points in those arms.

the reason i feel its the best mech to learn on is because it teaches you how to properly pilot and mech and prevents you from pickin up bad habits that you would probably pick up in larger mechs with more survivability.

[Tor Gungnir]

Just wanna play, on 11 July 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

what you talking bout?? srm6: 4 heat 9 damage... medium laser 4 heat 5 damage.......

SRM range and spread makes it far worse than the raw stats would imply.

[Just wanna play]

Tor Gungnir, on 11 July 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

SRM range and spread makes it far worse than the raw stats would imply.

but still far better then the medium laser (or really large laser aside from range), i tend to hit with AT LEAST half of those missiles and thats WITH their wonky hit detection, id take an srm over anything else that weighs as much any day

and last time i checked now that streaks lost their uber ct seeking they are even more worthless against anything except lights

[Skydrive]

Don't think they added the change to where Streaks will try to hit yet.

[Just wanna play]

Skydrive, on 11 July 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Don't think they added the change to where Streaks will try to hit yet.

well they've stopped them from ALWAYS damaging the frakking ct so... (and they did say they did something in patch notes, cant remember what though)

Edited by Just wanna play, 11 July 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Kaishaku]

Lights: The Jenner is cheap and effective and is good to learn basics from. It's fast, has a small hit box and access to JJ. The only real downside is you need to spend big on a 300XL and endo/FF upgrades to make it competitive. Otherwise Id avoid lights because playing them can be very unforgiving ie 1 alpha deaths etc

Recommends: Jenner JR7-D or if you dont mind getting two useless variants the RVN-3L is always a winner

Mediums: I'd avoid these unless there was a trial mech that you REALLY enjoyed. Like lights they can be unforgiving big alpha strikes (current meta) will destroy them especially since they have much bigger hit boxes but not that much more health. As for variants I think your spoilt for choice in terms of hard points. Figure out a style you like and buy accordingly but once again Id avoid mediums as my first mech at least until they nerf big alphas and not every team is made up of 50-75% assault mechs.

Recommends: None really but if I was forced HBK-4SP or TBT-5J

Heavy: The Phract is one of the best mechs on paper. Decent tonage with good balanced hard points and one variant even has JJ. However if you got a thing for Ballistics there is the Jager and the Cat for missile lovers. For newbies Id lean towards the Phract or Catapaults because they are generally pretty easy to play. Note the Phracts arms are really low and wide which can be VERY annoying.

Recommends: CTF-3D

Assault: Zraven Id avoid the Atlas, it's a huge target, slow and clunky and is very restricted in terms of weapon hardpoints compared with other assaults. In terms of damage per ton its pretty crappy. If you want big alpha boats get a Stalker or a Highlander dont bother with the Atlas. MY pick would be the new Victor if your willing to wait. Its a 80 tonner which means its alot more forgiving than lights or mediums. Has access to JJ and a 385 rated engine allowing you to play it as a medium (with alot more armour) and a good spread of ballistic, missile and energy hard points.

Recommends: Any of the Victors but Id take either a VTR-9B or VTR-9S just dont get another f-cking Atlas.

Edited by Kaishaku, 11 July 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Skydrive]

That might of been the reduction of splash damage range. From here: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2442114 Paul wrote: "S-SRMs are undergoing a revamp on their targeting solutions. There are 7 bones that are randomly selected by each SSRM missile. Right now, those bones are located at joints rather than center-points for each of the components. We are looking at changing that so the bones are placed further apart and more toward the center of each component. We are also looking at weighting the torso bones in a manner that make them not a priority for SSRMs. For example, all components would have a weight of 1.0. The Torsos however would take a weighting of 0.35(LT) 0.3(CT) 0.35(RT). The reasoning behind this weighting is that if all the torsos had an equal value of 1, each missile would have a 3/7 chance of going for a torso. Any sort of torso twist/movement would increase the chance of a missile in flight to hit the CT (since it’s the biggest component on a Mech) if they were to target a side torso."

Plus I don't think they did really ALWAYS hit the CT of all mechs, since they could very well hit the fist of an Atlas, and I don't think the old splash damage range would reach the CT. Streaks were never that smart, able to dodge parts of a mech and terrain in order to hit a specific area of a mech... although they do sometimes circle.

[Buckminster]

My $.02:

My first mech was the Catapult C1. I love it, but I think the Catapults are too missile dependent for new players, and they really benefit from XL engines, which are just too darned expensive.

Honestly, I'd say the Centurions. They are very durable with the standard engines, have a wide variety of weapon systems (ballistics, lasers and missiles for the Cent-A), and are fast enough but not too fast. The biggest downside to them as a noob mech is that they have three distinct weapon systems, which can be a lot for a newer player.

[Johnny Reb]

Skydrive, on 11 July 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I like to call them Fat Alberts. If you've seen the movie, you would know what I mean by that.

Out of all of the 50 tonners, the Trebuchet is by far the safest to stuff an XL engine in.

Heh, the treb dies fast and the cent lasts longer.

[Tomman]

I guess I will weigh in on this discussion since it is both civil and opinions.

First... I would advise a new player to start in a medium chassis, not any other. The reason is that the medium mechs are the most durable ton for ton mechs in the game.

The Hunch 4SP would be a good first mech but the other variants suffer from the lose your shoulder and your neutered problem.

The Cicada's are all effectively lights and suffer from that frailty.

The Blackjacks.... well, the only truly effective BJ is the 1X so leveling them would be difficult.

Which brings us to the king of the mediums in my opinion... the Cent. Ton for ton, no mech can take a beating like a Centurion. The 9A in a full zombie build can still be up and shooting at 4%!!!!! So that is my recommendation, grab a cent with a standard engine get in close and pound, yeah you'll take a beating, but odds are you'll walk away.

As for the other classes....

Lights the best starter is probably the Jenner, it is an all around scout/striker.
Heavies is a murky world of what is your game style.... if you do well with the cents.... then probably the Dragons.... similar loadouts but require good torso twisting to spread out damage.
Assaults, well I will refrain from talking where I have no experience... I don't run these beasties despite being here since CB!

[Solis Obscuri]

What I'd recommend for a first purchase really depends on how that person likes to play.

[Ertur]

Hebdomas, on 08 July 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Personally I'd stay away from lights as a first mech unless you know the maps really well and because of their overall expense.

Or just be comfortable with having a .1 kill ratio for a long while.

[mailin]

So many assume that a new player knows what they want to play. 25 matches doesn't provide a lot of info on what the player is really looking for. For that reason, I always suggest a new player buy a medium, either a Hunchy 4Sp or a Centurion. I like the 4Sp because it can mount only two weapon systems, which are easier to learn with. I recommend either because they can both be zombie builds, although the Cent's more so, they can be relatively quick and you can pack a lot of different weapons into them. Also, these mechs will help new pilots learn the ropes of heat management and what works for them. I don't like ballistics for beginners because they can take some skill to use well, and let's face it: Ammo explosions suck. You want the new player experience to be relatively easy, but also enjoyable. Hunchbacks and Centurions are simple weapons systems. No jump jets, no XL engines, no upgrades required, yet there are still a lot of experienced players (I include myself in this) that still take their hunchies and cents out for a spin occasionally.