88 replies to this topic

[DeadlyNerd]

Seeing how it's a problem that PPC beats brawling, most logical thing would be to increase the range at which combat becomes brawling for a PPC user.

LRMs are pretty easy to counter that way, so why not PPC: Also, they've messed around with ranges for quite a few weapons and this wouldn't be the first "lore breaker".

I don't really care about being killed by a PPC, but I'm posting anyway since rest of the community is raging over it.

README : People are getting confused around ER PPC/PPC. I only meant regular PPC minimum range.
ER PPC already pays the price in ridiculously high heat and is designed to have no minimum range. Any minimum range on ER PPC would break the weapon and remove its intended use.

README 2 : If your argument isn't constructive, please don't bother writing anything. If I wanted to count how many people are against it, I would've put up a poll.

README 3 : If you're here to whine about me "stealing" your idea, don't flatter yourself, I didn't even notice your thread.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 07 July 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[WolvesX]

No.

[BillyM]

I am all for PPC balancing, but this is not the way about it.

--billyM

[Deathlike]

WolvesX, on 05 July 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

No.

But... this is the indirect LPL buff Paul was looking for!

[Phaesphoros]

I'd really like to hear solid counter-arguments. 90 m "minimun range" IMO has shown to be ineffective at limiting the range of the PPC. I mean, at 45 m, it still does 5 dmg.

It's not the solution to balance PPC, but it might force PPC boats to have back-up weapons for close range - and therefore it might be part of a solution to balance PPCs.

[NamNio]

PPC boating does seem to be an issue, and with this latest patch PGI seems to be sneaking up on it. You bring up an interesting observation, which I too have noticed: PPC cannons are strong in all situations. ER PPCs have no minimum range at all, and they are just as good up close as they are at range. Even the regular PPCs can function at brawling ranges, because 90m is incredibly close. Lets compare them to another long range weapon system: LRMs. LRMs can be defeated in MANY ways. Targets being cloaked by ECM, breaking locks via line of sight, being jammed by a nearby enemy's ECM, AMS, being inside the minimum range of 190m, and tall terrain / overhead cover such as the bridges in river city. PPCs also put all their damage in one place, unlike laser weapons. The only other weapons that give you these benefits are the AC10/20 or the Gauss; but these weapons have drawbacks that the PPCs dont: you pay for them with slot space and tonnage, the Gauss is prone to being crit, and they are constrained by ammo.

PGI tried to punish the high heat alpha strike by punishing you with extra heat for each PPC you fire beyond the 3rd and threatening internal damage caused by excessive heat, but these seem like a roundabout way of addressing the real issue: the PPC has the perfect lack of drawbacks.

PGI can approach this in a bunch different ways, they can make them weigh more, they could make them consume more space, they could make them generate more heat, they could fix the way they handle weapon slotting on 'mechs (Mechwarrior 4 had a more reasonable system), they could make all PPCs have a minimum range of 300m, so that they are a sniping/support weapon, or they could implement a weapon kickback system which can result in your 'mech falling over backwards if you fire too many missiles or large weapons at once (depending on your 'mech's tonnage).

Tweaking the PPC might break lore, but when you consider the fact that spiders are running around with them and firing them at speeds above 100kph; I would say we are already there.

[Bors Mistral]

Even if it doesn't match "lore" it will improve gameplay.

- give PPCs 180m min damage fallout range
- give ERPPCs 90m min damage fallout range
- give both half a second of charge-up delay before they fire

Those are meant to be good medium-to-long-range weapons, not a brawling cannon.

[SixBottles]

WolvesX, on 05 July 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

No.

hmm would really like to know why "No."

seems to me, it would solve a lot of problems without causing any collateral damage...

it remains excelling at med to long ranges and would not cut down other weapons due heat management/coherence tempering...

Edited by SixBottles, 05 July 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bors Mistral, on 05 July 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Even if it doesn't match "lore" it will improve gameplay.

- give PPCs 180m min damage fallout range
- give ERPPCs 90m min damage fallout range
- give both half a second of charge-up delay before they fire

Those are meant to be good medium-to-long-range weapons, not a brawling cannon.

Actually, not the worst ideas in the world. Only problem I see is it hurts people who want to run 1 or 2 just as much as it hurts the boaters running 6 of them.

I still would like to see more heat stacking as a solution more so than the idea above. That way it hurts the mass boaters more than people using them in ones and twos.

Either way, I would take the above solution over what we have now. Still, most 6 PPC style boaters can hide behind their line. Hard to get within that min range when their team is protecting them.

[Hawks]

Are there any plans to make PPCs inflict 'feedback' damage on the firing mech if used within the minimum range (as per lore)?

[Sprouticus]

I would not be adverse to testing the min range increase when the public test server goes online.

The firing delay is not going to happen. It is just too annoying to users (look at the old AC delay and how annoying that was).

[DeadlyNerd]

WolvesX, on 05 July 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

No.

Good old ignorant WolvesX.

I don't mind negative arguments, as long as they're constructive.

This thread is food for thought, not whine rage.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 05 July 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Deathlike]

NamNio, on 05 July 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

PGI can approach this in a bunch different ways, they can make them weigh more, they could make them consume more space, they could make them generate more heat, they could fix the way they handle weapon slotting on 'mechs (Mechwarrior 4 had a more reasonable system), they could make all PPCs have a minimum range of 300m, so that they are a sniping/support weapon, or they could implement a weapon kickback system which can result in your 'mech falling over backwards if you fire too many missiles or large weapons at once (depending on your 'mech's tonnage).

Stuff in bold - these will NEVER be on the table due to stock/TT specs. Everything else is.

At this rate (of these bad ideas), I expect to see a PPC module that will "neutralize" or remove the min range requirement (just because PGI can).

Edited by Deathlike, 05 July 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[DukeDublin]

"PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range."

Perhaps this is the lore friendly balance we need? (taken from sarna)

[Hawks]

DukeDublin, on 05 July 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

"PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range."

Perhaps this is the lore friendly balance we need? (taken from sarna)

ZOMG Y U WANT GAME TO B JUST LIKE TT U MAY AS WELL JUST ROLL DICE!!!11!!

[Stoicblitzer]

...maybe

[DukeDublin]

Hawks, on 05 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

ZOMG Y U WANT GAME TO B JUST LIKE TT U MAY AS WELL JUST ROLL DICE!!!11!!

Not sure what the point of that post was.

[General Taskeen]

DukeDublin, on 05 July 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Not sure what the point of that post was.

Probably trolling.

Anyways, I've long suggested that the there should be more 'simulation' things with button management. Namely the PPC "field inhibitor" or a secondary fire button. For the sake of simplicity I will call it "Field Inhibitor - Button F," Turn it off and you do full damage within 90m like an ER PPC, with the risk of damage feedback either damaging the weapon or your Mech.

[Jaguar Prime]

Bors Mistral, on 05 July 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

- give both half a second of charge-up delay before they fire

You must not have been here during closed beta.........

[Murzao]

The only fix to PPCs that's required is to buff SRMs back to 2 or 2.5 and then watch the fast mediums give them a 58 alpha to the face again and watch them cry:)