98 replies to this topic

[xDeityx]

Sybreed, on 08 July 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Sigh... waiting on more patches PGI, please tell me you'll sort out this mess.

I hear you OP. The last few nights I've gotten as far as loading up the mechlab, fiddling with some heat sinks, opening the social tab maybe, and then logging out to play Natural Selection 2 for the rest of the night. Then maybe right before I go to bed I'll log on and play with my camo for five minutes...

It's pretty sad considering I used to play for four hours a night about four nights a week and then more on weekends. The game just hasn't developed at all, it's the exact same broken game play for months at a time. Meanwhile Natural Selection 2 just had a giant revamp of how both factions work months after it released and it is still putting new content into the game for free. Oh and it was on sale for $8.50 on Steam two weekends ago, and that's all you'll ever have to pay.

[General Taskeen]

Well that's why ECM was flawed from the beginning.

Like it has been said and so shall it be written, should have been:

ECM - 50% More Lock On Time, 100% Information Denial (Displays "?" for armor readout, weapon readout, variant type when someone targets you - Countered by BAP), 75% More Lock On Time if Active/Passive radar arrives (ECM + Passive Radar = More lock on time)


Otherwise folks, just use direct-fire weapons and keep using them until we get a piece of equipment that also shuts those off as well.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Cathy, on 09 July 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Reduce ecm effectivness and there will be even more lrm boats than there are now

Want to know the reason LRM's are so hard to balance?

Too many factors. Adv. Decay. TAG. BAP. 1 ECM. 2 ECM. 3 ECM. Artemis. 5/10/20/30/60 LRM's at once. AMS. Direct fire. Indirect fire.

Is an LRM 20 balanced when it has Artemis, TAG, BAP, Adv. Decay and no ECM or AMS is present on the field?

Or is an LRM 20 balanced with no Artemis, TAG, BAP and Adv. Decay, with 3 ECM and multiple AMS?

ECM is stupid, and makes things WAY more complicated for balancing purposes.

Forgot UAV's by the by.

[MustrumRidcully]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 09 July 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I love the circles we go in over LRM's.

It's so fun.

Yeah. Lovely, really.

If it was a kid, it would have a face only a mother would like.

[ZonbiBadger]

Sybreed, on 08 July 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

One of my favorite mechs is the Trebuchet.

This happened twice in a row:

I'm in a match where only 1 or 2 on our team has ECM vs the other team with 3 or more

I get to a distance of 800-900m to the enemy team, close enough to realize I can't target them and my LRMs are COMPLETELY USELESS, making me pretty much useless by definition.

Then, I get PPCed/Gaussed to death, having only my 3 mlasers to defend myself Highlanders and such.

This is just dumb. First, there's the PPC meta that's greatly annoying. Then, there's the crazy counter effect of ECM that is simply out of control if you don't have a ECM counter equipped.

Sigh... waiting on more patches PGI, please tell me you'll sort out this mess.

Don't let them hit you and hit them. Stick with your team. Those are the secrets.

[MustrumRidcully]

General Taskeen, on 09 July 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Well that's why ECM was flawed from the beginning.

Like it has been said and so shall it be written, should have been:

ECM - 50% More Lock On Time, 100% Information Denial (Displays "?" for armor readout, weapon readout, variant type when someone targets you - Countered by BAP), 75% More Lock On Time if Active/Passive radar arrives (ECM + Passive Radar = More lock on time)


Otherwise folks, just use direct-fire weapons and keep using them until we get a piece of equipment that also shuts those off as well.

The other problem of LRMs is that lock on time limiters mean not enough, because locks are maintained over multiple shots.

I think a "fire & forget" system with the "fire" part requiring you to hold the reticule on target for a second or so (just like a laser) to get a good hit would have worked better for direct-fire, and indirect fire should require a dedicated spotter to do the same. That would have required the same degree of skill as any other weapon, but feel very different, open interesting tactical options, and allow better ways to have gear like ECM to interact with it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

ZonbiBadger, on 09 July 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Don't let them hit you and hit them. Stick with your team. Those are the secrets.

Has anyone ever thought about the concept of "sticking with your team" when it comes to LRM's?

Anyone worth their salt knows part of the problem with LRM's is you CAN'T just stick with your team. Otherwise you are going to do no damage.

[Mechteric]

Protip, always bring your own TAG.

[3rdworld]

It is funny to think about the current meta.

Look at how bad they butchered LRMs with ECM, then how bad they knee-capped missiles with "splash".

How bad are they going to destroy PPCs? My guess is completely worthless for the better part of 6 months.

[General Taskeen]

MustrumRidcully, on 09 July 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

The other problem of LRMs is that lock on time limiters mean not enough, because locks are maintained over multiple shots.

I think a "fire & forget" system with the "fire" part requiring you to hold the reticule on target for a second or so (just like a laser) to get a good hit would have worked better for direct-fire, and indirect fire should require a dedicated spotter to do the same. That would have required the same degree of skill as any other weapon, but feel very different, open interesting tactical options, and allow better ways to have gear like ECM to interact with it.

Well yes, MW:LL has a 'fire and forget' system for LRMs where if you 'lock fire' the missiles will continue to track the target no matter if they are out of your view and you lose your lock. Only cover saves them, jump jets (you can use jump jets to avoid missiles), or moving at lateral angles at fast speeds so the missiles can't turn fast enough and slam into the ground. That proper balance stuff ya know.


But, what I was alluding to is that just use PPC/Gauss/AC/20/Lasers until a piece of equipment also shuts those things off, since they are more effective anyways. That's what it is like to use LRMs, frustrating. It would be equally frustrating if there was a piece of equipment that shut off your PPC/Gauss/AC/20/Lasers.

Edited by General Taskeen, 09 July 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Blue Shield Thingies for PPCs.
Refractive Armor?
Reactive Armor?

[MaddMaxx]

Sybreed, on 08 July 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

sucks that I gotta get rid of 1 medium laser for TAG though. ECM users don't have to sacrifice weapons if they got the tonnage (which they all do thx to endo and DHS)

Come on dude. You complain you have just Lasers to defend your LRM based Mech versus ECM. and then complain again that you have to give up 1 ton to get to use them from 750m in?

Do you want to use those Missiles or not ffs. Then do what it takes for you to use them, and if that is a 1 ton laser dropped, then that is the tax. Those PPC carriers you gripe about, guess what they pay, the DHS tax.

You don't like that tax level, change Tax brackets and carry an other.

[McQuackers]

Missiles require teamwork to use effectively. When you have good teamwork, LRMs rain unholy hell down on the enemy. Hell, run TAG and you can be a one man LRM boat on some maps.

LRMs are actually FINALLY in a great spot. They're balanced perfectly! They're USEFUL!
ECM has also been nerfed pretty hard. TAG negates it for an LRM boat. NARC now negates it for an LRM boat. ECM is hardly as OP as you make it sound, but it damn well used to be that OP.

[Woozle]

General Taskeen, on 09 July 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

...just use direct-fire weapons and keep using them until we get a piece of equipment that also shuts those off as well.

General Taskeen, on 09 July 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

But, what I was alluding to is that just use PPC/Gauss/AC/20/Lasers until a piece of equipment also shuts those things off... It would be equally frustrating if there was a piece of equipment that shut off your PPC/Gauss/AC/20/Lasers.

Ya know, I hear that Hill 1.0 works pretty good. Building 1.5 works in a pinch too. And word has it that Cave 1.1 is OP.

[Lugh]

Sybreed, on 08 July 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

One of my favorite mechs is the Trebuchet.

This happened twice in a row:

I'm in a match where only 1 or 2 on our team has ECM vs the other team with 3 or more

I get to a distance of 800-900m to the enemy team, close enough to realize I can't target them and my LRMs are COMPLETELY USELESS, making me pretty much useless by definition.

Then, I get PPCed/Gaussed to death, having only my 3 mlasers to defend myself Highlanders and such.

This is just dumb. First, there's the PPC meta that's greatly annoying. Then, there's the crazy counter effect of ECM that is simply out of control if you don't have a ECM counter equipped.

Sigh... waiting on more patches PGI, please tell me you'll sort out this mess.

So wait you don't have TAG and you don't have BAP and you care complaining about ECM?

This is why you fail.

[C E Dwyer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 09 July 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Has anyone ever thought about the concept of "sticking with your team" when it comes to LRM's?

Anyone worth their salt knows part of the problem with LRM's is you CAN'T just stick with your team. Otherwise you are going to do no damage.

People that hang back at around 900 meters with pure lrm boats, love them, kill fodder for fast meds and lights also relying on others to keep locks is opimistic at best with PUGS..

In one example I back seat rode with an Atlas 4ML 2lrm15+arti guy/girl was launching missiles at targets that were behind cover spotted by another at a range of 1500..

now I'm not the greatest exponant of this game but if your going to boat at least understand that your absolute range is 1000 meters and then unless they can travel straight are not going to reach target, left me holding my head in my hands thinking OMG i'm teamed with a tard..if i'd have rage quit them it might have been justified..

on the other hand if your fighting against a 4man with a boat that is using voice and can call for help and has spotters the other team is probably dead on its feat..seen two stalkers pull apart the team I was in with ripple after ripple of lrms they were perfectly placed if the team I was in had the ability to close down the range on one the other got them in the back, i'd been one shotted by a ppc alpha in my jenner, either a stunning good shot or a lucky one as I was full steam and I tried to back seat watch, but as soon as I checked the name it was down and another and another

There is no doubt LRMs are a headache or they can be completely infeffectual, I certainly won't build a mech thats pure lrm.

LRM's for me should be a support weapon and not the desiding weapon, but thats my point of view and was completely happy with them before the recent 'fix' when I brought my Cpults out the garage

[Fulcrom Kerensky]

LRM's are awesome with teamwork and can keep the entire opposing team pinned down. How many threads do we need on the same subject?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Fulcrom Kerensky, on 09 July 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

LRM's are awesome with teamwork and can keep the entire opposing team pinned down. How many threads do we need on the same subject?

Know what else is awesome with teamwork? PPC's

Know what the difference is between LRM's and PPC's? PPC's don't need to pin you down, because they just kill you.

[C E Dwyer]

Sybreed, on 08 July 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

sucks that I gotta get rid of 1 medium laser for TAG though. ECM users don't have to sacrifice weapons if they got the tonnage (which they all do thx to endo and DHS)

Depends how you define sacrifice weapons, ECM takes up 2 slots and weighs 1.5 tonnes, thats space and tonnage for 1SL and 1ML

[Aim64C]

General Taskeen, on 09 July 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Otherwise folks, just use direct-fire weapons and keep using them until we get a piece of equipment that also shuts those off as well.

http://mwomercs.com/...active-reticle/

I will be ******* myself with laughter when PGI decides to implement something like this.

Then I'll go back to soloing entire teams in my Catapult C4.

MaddMaxx, on 09 July 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Come on dude. You complain you have just Lasers to defend your LRM based Mech versus ECM. and then complain again that you have to give up 1 ton to get to use them from 750m in?

Yeah, no. TAG doesn't work like that in practice.

You try self-tagging an Atlas at 750 meters long enough to let your LRMs pay him a visit. The only thing working in your favor, there, is that he's got a CT the size of a barn.

Quote

Do you want to use those Missiles or not ffs. Then do what it takes for you to use them, and if that is a 1 ton laser dropped, then that is the tax. Those PPC carriers you gripe about, guess what they pay, the DHS tax.

And how does that actually work?

It's not like PPCs require huge amounts of heatsinks to offset... or that they consume huge numbers of criticals to make the whole 3 crits per dhs an issue.

I've bigger problems running my 4 Large Laser BlackJack than I have running multi-PPC builds.

Quote

You don't like that tax level, change Tax brackets and carry an other.

That's an interesting balance concept. "An entire class of weapons not working? Just move on to the same class of weapon everyone else is using."

Let's just drop the charade and go back to the 80s with BattleZone. Everyone gets the same weapon, the same main gun. Perfectly balanced. Except for one lucky ******* always spawns next to a house to give him cover.... cheezing SOB.