73 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

TehSBGX, on 10 July 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Wait a second, were you the guy who did that to me the other day?

I have no idea. Were you legged and just outside of the shipyard in River City? Was the Stalker white?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Ok final evaluation here.

The Quad PPC build Stalker is a good sniper and it is definately no brainer easy to use but beyond that there is not much going for it and definately doesn't deserve the overhyped reputations, at least at whatever ELO bracket I am playing in.

First, it is just too hot. 3 Quad bursts and your into OH, even with 20 DHS. Even if you fire in pairs it is hard to keep the heat under control and you have to slow down your shots drastically to keep from OH very early into any heated fight.

Second it fires to slow. This isn't a huge issue at sniping ranges but if the fight gets up close your just not efficient with sustaining DPS and once you throw heat in there, it really shows how bad the build really is.

Now additionally let me tell you what happens to a Quad PPC Stalker at my ELO bracket and I will let you judge how competitive the bracket is.

The second you fire a burst at an enemy mech, they start torso twisting like crazy and get their butts to cover damn quick. Getting the chance to take your time and line up another shot to pop a side torso DOES NOT HAPPEN especially with a 4 second delay before firing again. Immediately once they get to cover they start working their way up the flanks USING THAT COVER to get in close to you and the majority of them are faster and more agile than you. Then once they get in close, they face hug you so your Quad PPCs become ineffective and do like 4 damage for 40 heat. Then they just face hug you and wear you down till you die. This happened over and over and over in on every map that offered any sort of cover at all and there was nothing I could do to avoid it except maybe run away to stand next to a teammate and hope they saved me.

Now I don't know about you but when you have players on the opposing team immediately reacting eactly the way they should to a Quad PPC boat and then immediately and effectively countering the build, that tells me I am not dealing with "unskilled" players. Since it is pretty obvious they aren't unskilled, I personally think it safe to say I have had the opportunity to test in a competitive environment.

Lastly, my stats took a trememdous hit when I went to Quad PPCs over my traditional Laser and LRM builds. Kill rate way down, K/D way down, Damage way down.

In conclusion the Quad PPC build just doesn't deserve the reputation it has gotten and there are absolutely no balance issue with them. In fact it was a compete eye opener to see how easily and how completely they were countered when people used the proper tactics. I even learned a thing or two for taking a Quad PPC Stalker down even faster.

I also could see how in a less competitive environment, they could dominate the match because everyone is right, they are excellent at doing heavy pinpoint damage and if the enemy allows them to pick their shots, they will easily best most other mechs.

Additionally I could see how they might actually do well in coordinate teams where focus fire targets are being called out and the Stalkers have good reliance on the team supporting them against the counter tactics I saw when playing.

As to everyone who believes they are that they and their Stalkers are the apex predator of competitive play, if you are playing a PUG, sorry to break it to you but I don't think your really playing in the highest ELO brackets.

Anyway I have my flame suit one so shout me down to your hearts content.

Note: I am not saying the build sucks but it was just average at best.

I was wondering with your experience, were you with other PPC boats on your team? One or two PPC boats on a team can be defeated as any build in small numbers on the field. But when massed, it changes what one can do.

Check this out: http://www.twitch.tv...mes/b/426363372
It was an interesting video to watch.

[armyof1]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Spoiler

Ok final evaluation here.

The Quad PPC build Stalker is a good sniper and it is definately no brainer easy to use but beyond that there is not much going for it and definately doesn't deserve the overhyped reputations, at least at whatever ELO bracket I am playing in.

First, it is just too hot. 3 Quad bursts and your into OH, even with 20 DHS. Even if you fire in pairs it is hard to keep the heat under control and you have to slow down your shots drastically to keep from OH very early into any heated fight.

Second it fires to slow. This isn't a huge issue at sniping ranges but if the fight gets up close your just not efficient with sustaining DPS and once you throw heat in there, it really shows how bad the build really is.

Now additionally let me tell you what happens to a Quad PPC Stalker at my ELO bracket and I will let you judge how competitive the bracket is.

The second you fire a burst at an enemy mech, they start torso twisting like crazy and get their butts to cover damn quick. Getting the chance to take your time and line up another shot to pop a side torso DOES NOT HAPPEN especially with a 4 second delay before firing again. Immediately once they get to cover they start working their way up the flanks USING THAT COVER to get in close to you and the majority of them are faster and more agile than you. Then once they get in close, they face hug you so your Quad PPCs become ineffective and do like 4 damage for 40 heat. Then they just face hug you and wear you down till you die. This happened over and over and over in on every map that offered any sort of cover at all and there was nothing I could do to avoid it except maybe run away to stand next to a teammate and hope they saved me.

Now I don't know about you but when you have players on the opposing team immediately reacting eactly the way they should to a Quad PPC boat and then immediately and effectively countering the build, that tells me I am not dealing with "unskilled" players. Since it is pretty obvious they aren't unskilled, I personally think it safe to say I have had the opportunity to test in a competitive environment.

Lastly, my stats took a trememdous hit when I went to Quad PPCs over my traditional Laser and LRM builds. Kill rate way down, K/D way down, Damage way down.

In conclusion the Quad PPC build just doesn't deserve the reputation it has gotten and there are absolutely no balance issue with them. In fact it was a compete eye opener to see how easily and how completely they were countered when people used the proper tactics. I even learned a thing or two for taking a Quad PPC Stalker down even faster.

I also could see how in a less competitive environment, they could dominate the match because everyone is right, they are excellent at doing heavy pinpoint damage and if the enemy allows them to pick their shots, they will easily best most other mechs.

Additionally I could see how they might actually do well in coordinate teams where focus fire targets are being called out and the Stalkers have good reliance on the team supporting them against the counter tactics I saw when playing.

As to everyone who believes they are that they and their Stalkers are the apex predator of competitive play, if you are playing a PUG, sorry to break it to you but I don't think your really playing in the highest ELO brackets.

Anyway I have my flame suit one so shout me down to your hearts content.

Note: I am not saying the build sucks but it was just average at best.

From your description it sounds like you're running entirely solo with no team-mate close by at all. As such of course getting someone chase you down and blow you up at close range would be fairly easy. I pug all the time and most of the time if someone runs that close a couple of team-mates close by will start shooting at them and either scare them off into cover or outright damage them so much one of you will kill him. Just stick close to your team so they can help you when someone tries to run you down. It seems like you're straying too far from them.

Edited by armyof1, 10 July 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[FupDup]

armyof1, on 10 July 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

From your description it sounds like you're running entirely solo with no team-mate close by at all. As such of course getting someone chase you down and blow you up at close range would be easy. I pug all the time and most of the time if someone runs that close a couple of team-mates close by will start shooting at them and either scare them off into cover or outright damage them so much one of you will kill him. Just stick close to your team so they can help you when someone tries to run you down. It seems like you're straying too far from them.

Another issue he seems to be making is using staggered/chain fire too often. These are the times where a PPC Stalker can use something other than pure alpha:
1. If you're locked in a brawl with no way out other than to fight
2. If your loadout is split between 2 PPC and 2 ERPPC, you can use the 2 ERPPC at extreme range without firing the 2 PPC
2a. You can also use the 2 ERPPC for targets closer than 90m and not fire the 2 PPC
3. If the target is really really close to death
4. If you are really really close to death

In all other possible scenarios, it would be in one's best interests to sit behind a hill while you (Viktor) dissipate heat. That's part of the whole point of hillhumping.

Edited by FupDup, 10 July 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

FupDup, on 10 July 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Another issue he seems to be making is using staggered/chain fire too often. These are the times where a PPC Stalker can use something other than pure alpha:
1. If you're locked in a brawl with no way out other than to fight
2. If your loadout is split between 2 PPC and 2 ERPPC, you can use the 2 ERPPC at extreme range without firing the 2 PPC
2a. You can also use the 2 ERPPC for targets closer than 90m and not fire the 2 PPC
3. If the target is really really close to death
4. If you are really really close to death

In all other possible scenarios, it would be in one's best interests to sit behind a hill while you (Viktor) dissipate heat. That's part of the whole point of hillhumping.

I only used Quad PPCs so yes ER PPCs would have helped in close but then heat would have been even more an issue. Also I just wanted to test Quad PPCs because that is the hot build everyone is complaining about.

armyof1, on 10 July 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

From your description it sounds like you're running entirely solo with no team-mate close by at all. As such of course getting someone chase you down and blow you up at close range would be fairly easy. I pug all the time and most of the time if someone runs that close a couple of team-mates close by will start shooting at them and either scare them off into cover or outright damage them so much one of you will kill him. Just stick close to your team so they can help you when someone tries to run you down. It seems like you're straying too far from them.

Definately solo but not so solo there are no team mates near. The issue was once they identifed I was boatting PPCs, they pretty much concentrated on me to the exclusion of others. Now maybe that is a testament to how good the build was, but they definately moved very decisively to counter me from sniping them down. Even when I did have good range, once I nailed them once, they were scrambling for cover. Only very occassionally did I get someone who just stood around waiting for me to nail them.

Again I am not saying I counld be effective or that the build sucked. I still usually managed to get at least 1 kill a match and in several I got 3-4. Also I could put out decent damage numbers but they just weren't as good as my traditional builds and I just saw so many flaws and weaknesses with the build that could easily be address by mixing up the loadout and still retain the same effectiveness.

The end result was the build didn't deserve the hype. It is a good build but not better than anything else and definately not OPed. That was what I was trying to determine and I just found out that most of the claims had no basis in reality, at least not in the matches I play. No more, no less.

[Skyfaller]

Blackfoot, on 10 July 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

6 ppcs is too hot. 4 is much more manageable, but even then like you said still has heat issues and you usually have to chain fire them.

think on this for a moment:

Yes, 6 PPC is too hot. You don't have to fire all 6 at once every time though.

A 6 PPC stalker is devastating when it has fire control. arm PPCs set to group 1, torso PPCs to weapon 2, all 6 ppcs to 3 and arm ppcs to chain fire in 4.

Result? Its a quad PPC stalker that has the potential of dumping 60 damage in one blast at will.

Its almost the closest you will get to a TT 'alpha strike' experience.

When I used to run the 6PPC stalker 3F it was nuts how if I saw a friend brawling someone else I could stop for a moment at the enemy, AIM well at his leg or weak armor point and in one shot completely and utterly ruin his day. I chain fired most of the time while in moving combat... fired the quad arm ppcs only for long range sniping (beyond the range the ppcs would do max damage)..and as I mentioned before, used the 6 PPCs only for BONING whoever was unlucky enough to give me a good aimed shot when I happened to be under 30% heat.

Edited by Skyfaller, 10 July 2013 - 07:50 PM.

[Hyperlynx]

Skyfaller, on 10 July 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

think on this for a moment:

Yes, 6 PPC is too hot. You don't have to fire all 6 at once every time though.

A 6 PPC stalker is devastating when it has fire control. arm PPCs set to group 1, torso PPCs to weapon 2, all 6 ppcs to 3 and arm ppcs to chain fire in 4.

Result? Its a quad PPC stalker that has the potential of dumping 60 damage in one blast at will.

Its almost the closest you will get to a TT 'alpha strike' experience.

When I used to run the 6PPC stalker 3F it was nuts how if I saw a friend brawling someone else I could stop for a moment at the enemy, AIM well at his leg or weak armor point and in one shot completely and utterly ruin his day. I chain fired most of the time while in moving combat... fired the quad arm ppcs only for long range sniping (beyond the range the ppcs would do max damage)..and as I mentioned before, used the 6 PPCs only for BONING whoever was unlucky enough to give me a good aimed shot when I happened to be under 30% heat.

You do sacrifice two double heatsinks for the two extra PPCs. Doesn't that make a difference? That said, being able to alpha with all six and just one-shot things (positioning permitting) is a significant advantage

[Khobai]

The problem isn't one mech with multiple PPCs. The problem is a whole team of them. Because they focus fire and obliterate enemy mechs from across the map in seconds. And the maps are so small and lack any kind of strategic variance that every game plays out virtually identically. That is why the sniping meta is so dominant right now.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[LeShadow]

From my experience (around 3000 games, mostly in Stalkers), there's not much difference between LL and PPC boats. Yes, sometimes torso twisting does spread the damage. If I don't think I'll get a good shot at a torso section, I go for the legs. Problem solved. Also, it's actually easier (i.e. less time spent aiming) to finish off a deep-red torso with a quick laser swipe.

While a group of PPC boats can certainly dish out hurt like nothing sane, the same goes for a pack of LL Stalkers. Maybe it takes half a second longer to core the target, so what?

I've run some tests these past weeks to see if my Misery would really be better off using PPC+Gauss instead of LL+ML+Gauss. The most noticeable effect was that, the instant I switched to PPC, everyone seemed to really hate me. The number of homophobic and otherwise rude remarks increased at least tenfold.

My combat efficiency, however, was about the same. Yes, Gauss often has to be aimed separately from lasers where PPC+Gauss can just be fired with one click, but this was somewhat offset by the LL version's higher alpha. I could afford to lose a split second of laser time-on-target to get the Gauss in before the target went to cover and still do more damage.

That said, yes, maybe lasers require a little more skill to use, but I really don't see them being inferior to PPC the way people claim. At least not on a Heavy or Assault.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Khobai, on 10 July 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

The problem isn't one mech with multiple PPCs. The problem is a whole team of them. Because they focus fire and obliterate enemy mechs from across the map in seconds. And the maps are so small and lack any kind of strategic variance that every game plays out virtually identically. That is why the sniping meta is so dominant right now.

And here is the crux of the matter. Coordinated group play. Yes I acknowledge that that in a coordinated group the Quad PPC set up could be decisive if multiple mechs were using it and targets were being called. However, here is the problem. Not everyone plays in coordinated groups.

Basically you have to put the issue into context so people can't understand the issue. That hasn't been done in regards to the issue behind PPC boating. All we hear is how PPC boating is an issue and that it is overpowered and that the PPC in general is overpowered but if the issue only effects coordinated game play then it isn't the wide spread issue people keep making it out to be. For example, if your a PUGer, then there is no issue.

What this means is that they need to change the mechanic behind coordinated group play, not change how hardpoints work or nerf PPCs. Maybe they should go back to my original suggestion a long time ago back in closed beta of seperating out group play from PUGs and make it entirely the realm of Company Battles with such things as chassis and weight restrictions that don't exist in the Random Battle mode.

Anyway, your statement just supports my original assumption that there is nothing special about the build itself.

[Bloody Moon]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Now why do people persist in thinking that it is not possible to keep a laser focused on a single section of an enemy mech for the entire duration of a 1 second pulse? I personally haven't had a real issue doing it since about a month after I started the game. Definately takes more skill, I will grant you that, but it isn't super hard most of the time.

Quad LL = 38 damage
Quad PPC = 40 damage

Quad LL = 3.25 sec cooldown
Quad PPC = 4 sec cooldown

Quad LL = 28 Heat
Quad PPC = 40 Heat

Quad LL = 20 Tons weight
Quad PPC = 28 Tons weight

Now I am still talking boats here but how is the PPC boat better again?

Large Laser cd is 4.25 because the cooldown starts at the end of the beam, not 3.25
Large Laser damage is 9 each, which means 4 does 36, not 38.
PPC heat is 8/shot/weapon so 4 PPC generates 32 heat per alpha, not 40.


Maybe you should confirm your numbers before you try to discuss weapon balance...

PPCs are not only better 'cos they have more focused damage, with Large Lasers you give the enemy a 1 second window when he can shoot back at you, with PPCs you can torso twist instantly after the shot, forcing them to either hold their shot or shoot at the section you put in their way making damage spreading much easier.

[Waking One]

It's just way too easy for what it does, and the stalker being notoriously hard to kill compared to other assaults with hill humping and all, with added group play of multiple ppc stalkers all hill humping and coordinating on people makes for a horribly boring game.It's just so easy to use it dominates the game, and all the talk about "tactics" means nothing when the effort needed to combat them is so much greater than the effort needed to use them, making them clearly the definition of OP.

Most other mechs with such high alpha have to use XLs btw, and at least in the case of the highlander (another that can use standard), have all weapons stored in one side so if you side torso them they're weaponless.

Edited by Waking One, 11 July 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[theta123]

Here i have my Victor. Armed with 2 LL, an AC/20 and 3 streaks. Build with consideration for medium-short range, great mobility and versatility.


Quad PPC stalker=oh really? do you mind if i fire 2 meta shots in less then 7 seconds and CT you?


This is why i hate this game..This guy came at me from only 180 meters yet still owned me in 2 shots...in such short time


So NO

I say one huge NO to all quad PPC builds...just NO

[Skyfaller]

Hyperlynx, on 10 July 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

You do sacrifice two double heatsinks for the two extra PPCs. Doesn't that make a difference? That said, being able to alpha with all six and just one-shot things (positioning permitting) is a significant advantage

No, the difference is barely noticeable. Once you crunch the numbers down you realize the 10 engine DHS is all you need (plus whatever extra you can slot into the engine) because they are the equivalent of 20 single heatsinks. External DHS just add minimally to the cooling and heat capacity (you need to slot 5 to notice a difference).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat dissipation of single heatsinks is 1/10, Engine DHS 2/10 and DHS 1.4/10
Basic Heat cap = 30, increases by 1 per shs, 1.4 per dhs and 2 per Engine dhs.

Formula:
Heat Dissipation = EN.DHSx0.2 + Nx0.14
Heat Cap = 30 + EN.DHSx2 + Nx1.4
Pilot/mech skills nor map temp variables included.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, a stalker with a 10DHS internal engine has:

Heat cap: 30 base + 20 (engine dhs) + 0 = 50 heat cap.
Heat dissipation: 2+ 0 = 2 heat/second

With 15 DHS, 10 internal, 5 external:

Heat Cap: 30 base + 20 + 7 = 57
Heat Dissipation: 2 + .7 = 2.7

So right there you see the 5 external DHS give the mech just enough juice to power 1 PPC shot. However, given that 50 heat already powers 6 ppc's (42 heat) you notice that the 5 extra dhs, for the purpose of a 60 dmg alpha hit from hell in one location, are not really needed. Do the extra external DHS help? Sure they do. The cooling factor alone helps lots.

what is preferable? Firing 6 ppcs and having to wait 1/3rd longer to cool down for another 6 ppc blast or firing 4 PPCs at a time, twice (that would max out a 12 DHS heat cap once we include the cooling done while weapon refire cycle takes place) that hit in two different locations?

In any case, a stalker 6 PPC build uses 16 DHS as standard: 6 PPC STK-3F

The performance of 10 internal dhs and 6 external dhs give the 6ppc stalker the ability to fire two massive 6-ppc blasts one after the other (cooling between shots and avg 1->3 more seconds aim time for a good hit) that runs the mech into high 90s (the pilot skills extra cooling+heat cap allow this). Its no wonder 6ppc stalker sees atlas... 6ppc stalker obliterates atlas in 2 hits to the CT.

... so the problem is threefold:

1- Internal engine DHS is too beneficial. In my book DHS should be 2.0 dissipation, 1.0 heat cap.. singles should be 2.0 heat cap, 1.0 dissipation. Inside engine and out.

2- PPC heat costs too low. Should be 10 heat not 8.

3- Perfect convergence of weapons in the game allows any front-loaded damage weapon to be abused via alpha fire. PPC/Ballistics.

The PPC boating meta that is making this game CRAP right now is not because one mech boats..its because more than half of each team is nothing BUT ppc boats.

Khobai, on 10 July 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

The problem isn't one mech with multiple PPCs. The problem is a whole team of them. Because they focus fire and obliterate enemy mechs from across the map in seconds. And the maps are so small and lack any kind of strategic variance that every game plays out virtually identically. That is why the sniping meta is so dominant right now.

... yes and its not even about focus fire. a completely uncoordinated PUG boating PPCs can bring down many mechs just by opportunistic snapshots. Too many times I see and have done myself, shots on-the-run at mechs very far away where I know I will have enough time to cool down my heat completely and thus a salvo of 6ppc to try my luck is acceptable. Too many times I have legged mechs in one hit with this (I love to aim low with this thing) and that knocks them out of the match from the very start.

LeShadow, on 11 July 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

From my experience (around 3000 games, mostly in Stalkers), there's not much difference between LL and PPC boats. Yes, sometimes torso twisting does spread the damage. If I don't think I'll get a good shot at a torso section, I go for the legs. Problem solved. Also, it's actually easier (i.e. less time spent aiming) to finish off a deep-red torso with a quick laser swipe.
...
While a group of PPC boats can certainly dish out hurt like nothing sane, the same goes for a pack of LL Stalkers. Maybe it takes half a second longer to core the target, so what?
...
That said, yes, maybe lasers require a little more skill to use, but I really don't see them being inferior to PPC the way people claim. At least not on a Heavy or Assault.

The 'quick laser swipe' to kill the target is really the only advantage of the LL over the PPC ... because the ppc either hits or it misses. The LL can put the last 2 pnts of damage on the ct to pop it. However, you are far more likely to run into a almost deep red CT mech that you swipe 4 times with LL and he dont die..and he kills you.. vs you popping one shot into that CT and he's gone.

The 'it takes half a second to keep laser on target' not being 'hard' is such a lie. You don't understand the difference between a single 10 dmg impact and keeping a laser on a very small target area when your mech is moving, his mech is moving and both are twisting torso and legs. Granted, if you catch them off guard (they're firing at someone else and you get a shot at them) yes it works..but then again, so would a ppc hit...and it'd work better.

It is not a thing of which weapon is superior to the other. Both are very situational weapons. I personally love to use lasers on my spider but would never load one on my stalker unless im forced to (aka quad lrm15 must load 4 med lasers for self defense..nothing else fits). Likewise, since I put an ER large and medium laser on my spider 5D I've never thought back of putting a PPC on it again. 'swipe' damage works perfectly for a highly mobile little mech but poorly for a big slow stalker.

Edited by Skyfaller, 11 July 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[El Bandito]

OP still does not understand how to play Quad PPC Stalker in full. The trick is to have 2 PPCs + 2 ERPPCs. Manage the heat with PPCs and use ERPPCs in extreme far or close ranges.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 July 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[Khavi Vetali]

I'd like to know the OP's KDR with the stalker, and their average KDR with all mechs with over 50 matches, or even just the best KDR mech. Also win/loss over the last 200 matches. But, that's wishing. Well, we will get public stats eventually.

From my experience, quad ppc stalkers feel like cheese when I'm driving them. Hillhump, point, click, hillhump, point, click. I have over 150 matches in my Heavy Metal with a ~3 KDR using nothing but brawling builds. 300 matches in a 3D since stats tracking, also with ~3 KDR. I have a better KDR (~5) in quad PPC stalkers, which I don't even have elited, FFS. For reference, my Win/Loss over the last 200 matches is ~1.8-2.0. I play 8's and 4's exclusively, split about even. I'd like to consider myself a good brawler, and an average sniper. Quad PPC stalkers give me easy kills and high damage that I don't feel like I actually have to work for, and as such feel distasteful. Only time I hop in them now is to show people how bad they are (or if I get killed by one, because the circle must continue ;p ). At least with a double-20 Jagermech I have to get close for full effectiveness, and face XL survivability issues.

I think the current state of pinpoint high alpha weapon groups combined with the extremely high arm mounts of the Stalker present a balance issue that needs to be resolved. Minimal risk for maximum reward. I don't think boating peanalties will fix it.

Although over the last few weeks, my matches do seem to be getting more varied - at least the 4s. It's not 6 stalkers per match anymore at least.

That's how it looks from my viewpoint.

Edited by Khavi Vetali, 11 July 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Waking One]

Khavi Vetali, on 11 July 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

I'd like to know the OP's KDR with the stalker, and their average KDR with all mechs with over 50 matches, or even just the best KDR mech. Also win/loss over the last 200 matches. But, that's wishing. Well, we will get public stats eventually.

From my experience, quad ppc stalkers feel like cheese when I'm driving them. Hillhump, point, click, hillhump, point, click. I have over 150 matches in my Heavy Metal with a ~3 KDR using nothing but brawling builds. 300 matches in a 3D since stats tracking, also with ~3 KDR. I have a better KDR (~5) in quad PPC stalkers, which I don't even have elited, FFS. For reference, my Win/Loss over the last 200 matches is ~1.8-2.0. I play 8's and 4's exclusively, split about even. I'd like to consider myself a good brawler, and an average sniper. Quad PPC stalkers give me easy kills and high damage that I don't feel like I actually have to work for, and as such feel distasteful. Only time I hop in them now is to show people how bad they are (or if I get killed by one, because the circle must continue ;p ). At least with a double-20 Jagermech I have to get close for full effectiveness, and face XL survivability issues.

I think the current state of pinpoint high alpha weapon groups combined with the extremely high arm mounts of the Stalker present a balance issue that needs to be resolved. Minimal risk for maximum reward. I don't think boating peanalties will fix it.

Although over the last few weeks, my matches do seem to be getting more varied - at least the 4s. It's not 6 stalkers per match anymore at least.

That's how it looks from my viewpoint.

While your point is sound, your stats are meaningless and nothing but e-peen waving, especially when done in a 4man. Game needs to be solid for all player levels.

But yes, f stalkers.

[Khavi Vetali]

Waking One, on 11 July 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

While your point is sound, your stats are meaningless and nothing but e-peen waving, especially when done in a 4man. Game needs to be solid for all player levels.

But yes, f stalkers.

Of course it needs to be solid from all player levels, but the stats and play experience give a background to the argument, showcasing that it may be different for people who play differently, dur. *shrug* When the top players in the game have double or more my stats, I don't think it's epeen waving anyway, but meh.

The main crux is that while a quad ppc stalker loadout may provide similar or better results to other builds, in my experience it does so while being far, far, easier to run, with much less risk for equivalent or greater reward. So...disregard the stats, and the o/ but take that away from the argument.

And yes, f stalkers. f'em hard.

Edited by Khavi Vetali, 11 July 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

Khavi Vetali, on 11 July 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Of course it needs to be solid from all player levels, but the stats and play experience give a background to the argument, showcasing that it may be different for people who play differently, dur. *shrug* When the top players in the game have double or more my stats, I don't think it's epeen waving anyway, but meh.

Bringing up statistics in their current iteration is certainly not wise as solo, 4man and 8man statistics are not separated.
A player with better statistics in each bracket can have worse overall statistics simply because he played a much different number of games from another player.

[Trauglodyte]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Now why do people persist in thinking that it is not possible to keep a laser focused on a single section of an enemy mech for the entire duration of a 1 second pulse? I personally haven't had a real issue doing it since about a month after I started the game. Definately takes more skill, I will grant you that, but it isn't super hard most of the time.

Quad LL = 38 damage
Quad PPC = 40 damage

Quad LL = 3.25 sec cooldown
Quad PPC = 4 sec cooldown

Quad LL = 28 Heat
Quad PPC = 40 Heat

Quad LL = 20 Tons weight
Quad PPC = 28 Tons weight

Now I am still talking boats here but how is the PPC boat better again?

What you're forgetting about the LL cool down is that it doesn't kick in until the 1s beam is done firing so the cool down is actually 4.25s and not 3.25s.