132 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Much of what I'm about to say was pointed out in the initial feedback poll for the Seismic Sensor, but while it's not my intention to merely rehash old discussions, I do feel that a discussion of how Seismic Sensors affect the game now is useful. Now that the dust has settled, as it were, and I'm starting to see the module more often, I can give more comprehensive feedback - and collect other people's opinions as well.

My experience with the sensor boils down to this: With my Atlas, it's a powerful situational awareness tool which allows me to keep tabs on people trying to get into my rear arc. I can see if people are sneaking up on me, or trying to sneak past me for a base cap - or if I'm about to lumber around a corner and into their entire team. It's a fun, and very useful, module.

With my Spider, the Seismic Sensor is a pestilence from heaven, sent down to punish me for my wickedness in choosing a light Battlemech. In combat, being mobile and unpredictable is a large part of what the Spider does. I don't have as many hardpoints as other lights, but I'm very quick and agile. Against anyone with a Seismic sensor, however, I'm always visible - they can see me through walls, they can see me through solid rock... they don't have to play the "which way did the Spider go" game: they know exactly where I am. Sure, I could stand still and disappear from the sensor, but standing still like that is very dangerous for a light - and as soon as I move again, he's got me. Playing against an opponent using this module feels very punishing at times. It's like reverse-ECM, but there's no counter.

The Seismic Sensor is a fun and very useful module - probably the most useful module for any brawler or scout to have. But the range and utility of the module hits lights very hard - and at a time where I understand that many players feel light, fast 'mechs are going the way of the Dodo.

Does anyone else find it frustrating to fight opponents using the Seismic Sensor?

[Ialdabaoth]

Agreed - lighter 'mechs should have weaker seismic footprints. Maybe limit the detection range to (mass) meters? So a Spider would be detectable out to 30m, and an Atlas out to 100m?

Edited by Ialdabaoth, 10 July 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[Void Angel]

30m would be way too short, but I agree that a sliding scale of distance by weight class would be an ideal solution to the problem. Currently I'm unable to approach within the engagement range of most weapon systems which are practical for lights.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I still like running Commandos and the Spider 5D, and I do okay with them as a PUG. What I've found is that one needs to be more picky in how to harass the enemy with such a light weapon payload and paper thin armor (the 5D being slightly tougher since it is smaller and has JJs), and after I try to scout to see where the enemy is going and how they are grouping themselves, I try to use cover and get locks for any LRMs, as I look for a place to strike for biggest impact where I can escape after if I can.

At some point I often lose patience and I will charge to draw attention and see if I could thin the enemy with a chase. Or I'd try to cap.

As for wins/losses that seems to depend on how pin-point high damage per shot either team is, and how good they are at hitting. Some matches are lopsided others are down to the wire.

So Seismic can be changed if enough people and PGI think there needs to be a change, but until then, I'm just gonna deal with it and have to use it also. The only real change I've noticed is in those lopsided matches how they seem to finish faster, but those often have much more to do with the effective use of focus fire from multiple mechs with PPCs, ERPPCs, Gauss, LRMs, etc, and likely voice comms too.

[ICEFANG13]

Seismic Sensor was the final straw that made me stop playing an awesome Jenner. Seriously, who designed that? All it does is strengthen the dumb idea that light mechs are only good with PPCs (and really, that's true, 2 PPCs, you have a mech, 2 SRM-4 and 4 Small lasers, who would play that crap?)

[WVAnonymous]

+1 for weight affecting seismic sensitivity.

[Zakie Chan]

I believe at less than 45 kph you dont appear on seismic. Also if youre in the air you dont appear until you touch down.

Theres two pieces of potential help right there.


Also if/when knockdown comes back... well you will have other, more serious issues.

[BillyM]

"seismic means they can line up shots that will ofcourse not register on my wonky hitboxes"

...yeup.

--billyM

[The Strange]

Less than 45? People show up on my seismic if they turn in place. Any foot step sets it off as far as I can tell. I find it funny though that in the OP he mentions it is fun and useful in an assault but kills light play. Both for the exact same reason I imagine.

[Void Angel]

Zakie Chan, on 10 July 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

I believe at less than 45 kph you dont appear on seismic. Also if youre in the air you dont appear until you touch down.

Theres two pieces of potential help right there.


Also if/when knockdown comes back... well you will have other, more serious issues.

They're intending to put in some sort of collision mechanic, but not the old "tripping" mechanic from days of yore - yet even if they did, I would have absolutely no "issues," since I don't abuse the game by running through people. Thanks for the information on mechanics (I'll have to try and test them,) but you can keep the insulting assumptions.

[redlance]

the seismic module does a few things to the game for me (a scout)

-it devalues the scout role since everyone has a powerful module that does most of this for them.

-it completely nerfs things that should never be nerfed in any FPS, cover, surprise, flanking...

-as a light pilot, rolling with a wingman and setting up the perfect flank on a lonely highlander was the most pulse pounding and if properly executed, the most rewarding experience, now since snipers and EVERYONE can see us coming no matter how clever we are when we use cover, there is no more excitement, no more mystery, and the thrill of the pounce has been taken out of the game.

- using the module my self makes my job easier at the cost of fun. its to easy, it's just boring. being a good scout used to be about finding the best sight line while exposing yourself the least amount possible. there was strategy, now i just run around until i get a blip. boring.

scouting used to be fun, and an active role, now its lame and you just sorta call it in. ambush tactics were the most risky and fun thing to do in a light, and now that's been effectively nerfed. honestly i feel like its a module that shouldn't exist in a game like this, we have scouts.

in my humble opinion PGI has effectively replaced the scout with a module that any assault can take, and now all the mystery is gone, all the RISK that should come with checking your corners, there is no risk any more and so there is no more fun.

and they have once again taken a huge DUMP on players who love lights. it's an out right slap in the face to the light pilots out there. as if the game isn't already stacked against us enough already, the high point alphas that kill us in one shot, the pint point snipers, the only thing we had going for us was superior team work and BALLSY ambush tactics. RIP light warriors. your now just a waste of tonnage.

any ways i'll go and pay 20 bucks for a 4 machine gun locust now. yea right...

Edited by redlance, 10 July 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Void Angel]

The Strange, on 10 July 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Less than 45? People show up on my seismic if they turn in place. Any foot step sets it off as far as I can tell. I find it funny though that in the OP he mentions it is fun and useful in an assault but kills light play. Both for the exact same reason I imagine.

Kinda, yeah. The reason I like it on my Atlas is that I can track other 'Mechs which are large enough to be a threat. My focus isn't so much on lights as it is on smashing enemy Heavies and above. So it's great for me, but I don't have much trouble hitting lights enough to at least chase them off. As a Spider, the least-well-armed 'Mech in the game (until the Locust,) I'm accustomed to relying on my speed and jump jets to fight unpredictably. I'll never do the newbie circle strafe with a larger 'mech; when I disappear behind that building, you have no idea which end I'm going to come out on, or even if I will come out rather than breaking contact and bothering someone else. But with the Seismic Sensor, my tactical flexibility means exactly jack squat - my opponent knows exactly where I went because Mister Seismic tells him. It's frustrating.

[Void Angel]

As for scouts being obsoletized by the module, I don't think it's quite that bad - you still need a fast platform to move ahead of the main body and localize the enemy. Nor is it a case of PGI defecating on, slapping, insulting, or otherwise targeting Light pilots for punishment - I believe they're giving thought to changing the reward system to be less weighted toward what larger chassis do better (rawrdamage!)

But, since the most effective armaments for lights have optimal or maximum ranges of less than 400m, ambushing and harassing an equipped 'mech is effective as a distraction more than anything else. Your standard PPC Poptart Newblander can sit and stare downrange zoomed in to the max - and Mister Seismic will still warn him before I can get to knife range.

Edited by Void Angel, 10 July 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[redlance]

ICEFANG13, on 10 July 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Seismic Sensor was the final straw that made me stop playing an awesome Jenner. Seriously, who designed that? All it does is strengthen the dumb idea that light mechs are only good with PPCs (and really, that's true, 2 PPCs, you have a mech, 2 SRM-4 and 4 Small lasers, who would play that crap?)

this too broke my back, as a light pilot, it was infuriating to be replaced by a single module. we had ONE thing, superior piloting skill and surprise tactics, it is clear to me now that PGI does not value light pilots because assaults sell for more money. playing a light now in assault heaven was hard enough, PGI's behavior as of late has been enough to make me lose complete faith. still glad i never bought a founders pack.

I've been positive about the game in the past, and chalked everything up to "beta". but this, this is to much. giving everyone wall hacks in a game about cover and flanking?

frack you PGI.

[Hyperlynx]

It's officially sanctioned wallhack. It is absolutely indispensable; you'd be a fool not to take it, and can assume every other player has it too. It totally negates flanking and similar tactical maneuvers, and removes the need for even basic situational awareness.

It has no place in the game whatsoever, should be removed, and cbills+XP refunded.

[Ialdabaoth]

Another thought - rather than have it actually show the target's position, what about just having it show a heading to the target and a 'strength'? That way you can't tell whether you're looking at an Atlas 1 km away, or a Spider 300 meters away.

[Leafia Barrett]

Ialdabaoth, on 10 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Another thought - rather than have it actually show the target's position, what about just having it show a heading to the target and a 'strength'? That way you can't tell whether you're looking at an Atlas 1 km away, or a Spider 300 meters away.

Or just have a seismic graph showing if there are vibrations in the immediate area (sticking to sensing enemy mechs only, for the sake of not being useless). A seismic sensor showing seismic readouts. What a concept, right?

[Ialdabaoth]

Leafia Barrett, on 10 July 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Or just have a seismic graph showing if there are vibrations in the immediate area (sticking to sensing enemy mechs only, for the sake of not being useless). A seismic sensor showing seismic readouts. What a concept, right?

Man, that could be hilarious. Fighting Spiders would turn into a rehash of Aliens. "We got movement!"

[ICEFANG13]

Hyperlynx, on 10 July 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

It's officially sanctioned wallhack. It is absolutely indispensable; you'd be a fool not to take it, and can assume every other player has it too. It totally negates flanking and similar tactical maneuvers, and removes the need for even basic situational awareness.

It has no place in the game whatsoever, should be removed, and cbills+XP refunded.

Oooooh that would be so nice. And maybe nerf PPCs and buff SRMs?

Nah I'd be a ***** to assume that's going to happen. 3 and a half months on temporary SRM fix, that could easily be changed? We'll never see a seismic change.

redlance, on 10 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

this too broke my back, as a light pilot, it was infuriating to be replaced by a single module. we had ONE thing, superior piloting skill and surprise tactics, it is clear to me now that PGI does not value light pilots because assaults sell for more money. playing a light now in assault heaven was hard enough, PGI's behavior as of late has been enough to make me lose complete faith. still glad i never bought a founders pack.

I've been positive about the game in the past, and chalked everything up to "beta". but this, this is to much. giving everyone wall hacks in a game about cover and flanking?

frack you PGI.

As I've said before, as I'm sure you understand from the eyes of a good light pilot,

ICEFANG13, on 21 June 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

heck I was gonna maybe be a pilot for DV8, along Wispsy, never seen a better Jenner than him or I. I used to always say that no matter what, I could strain my skills to the max and make it work, but seismic, and maybe 3rd person is just too much to break through.

400-90m I have to avoid fire, since their entire team will be aware I'm there, once there, avoid being one-shotted by a huge alpha boat, and should I do that, and not be CT'd before I can do damage by broken SSRMs, I can release a weak payload of 24, 12 of which will spread all over. Seriously, 2SRM-4+4Small Lasers. Those things are so bad that I would really be better off with 8 Small Lasers.

I can stand the pathetic imbalances to be honest, but waiting for so freaking long to get results? Seismic is a bad bad bad thing for smaller mechs that rely on speed. PGI did a terrible job... again, with it. 3 months of weak missiles, and alpha boating? Can't they just up the damage? I'm no programmer, but I'm pretty sure its a change 1 number from 1.5-X sort of thing. Try adding .1 each week and see how it goes!

Well it doesn't matter, I don't really play anymore anyway. Like I said, I can't make it work through all that.

[Void Angel]

redlance, on 10 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

this too broke my back, as a light pilot, it was infuriating to be replaced by a single module. we had ONE thing, superior piloting skill and surprise tactics, it is clear to me now that PGI does not value light pilots because assaults sell for more money. playing a light now in assault heaven was hard enough, PGI's behavior as of late has been enough to make me lose complete faith. still glad i never bought a founders pack.

I've been positive about the game in the past, and chalked everything up to "beta". but this, this is to much. giving everyone wall hacks in a game about cover and flanking?

frack you PGI.

Seismic sensors are a fun module which was present in canon and asked for by people in the player base. It's not a totally gamebreaking system either. Also, while I do think of myself as being a good pilot "superior piloting skill" isn't something we can claim as a characteristic of the weight class. Mobility, yes; "I'm a better pilot than those other guys," not so much. Consider that one of my other favorite chassis is an Atlas. =)

So, all that being said, I think that Seismic Sensor is a good module that adds a really fun toy to the game - it's just too effective against a single weight class in its current implementation, and I'd like to see it changed.