1084 replies to this topic

[Geminus]

Master Q, on 17 July 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

They are trying to fix the game with heat scales the way that a man who only has a hammer thinks he can fix his TV by smashing it.

"When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

The unsung, uncredited genius whose idea it was to turn lasers into beam weapons (eliminating the "zap zap perfect convergence" laserboat issue they were worried about from basically every Mechwarrior game that had ever come before) was indeed a genius. Ever since then the remaining design goal seems to be just to smack any problem with "yay heat scales" in an obvious Golden Hammer approach.

Here's my challenge to the developers: ALL of you. Play one hour a day with real players in real PUG play. Make fake accounts to be anonymous if you have to. See the game from our eyes and see the actual way the game is functioning.

Play the game WITH us and you'll see it. The reason trying to balance with heat scales isn't working is that the heat mechanic isn't what is broken. It's the pinpoint convergence + instant damage given to the ballistic cannons and PPCs causing the issues, just like pinpoint convergence + instant damage caused issues for Lasers in previous Mechwarrior titles.

agree 100% I think a good fix would be to not make the point of impact be the center of the cross hairs. Instead of having the direct fire weapons hit the 1 pixel center of the cross hair, their should be a 30 or 40 pixel wide "ghost ring" that the weapons will hit in. This also adds validation to the Clans targeting computer, which would otherwise be useless in this game play.

[Jakob Knight]

Geminus, on 17 July 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

agree 100% I think a good fix would be to not make the point of impact be the center of the cross hairs. Instead of having the direct fire weapons hit the 1 pixel center of the cross hair, their should be a 30 or 40 pixel wide "ghost ring" that the weapons will hit in. This also adds validation to the Clans targeting computer, which would otherwise be useless in this game play.

Well, I don't agree with convergence being the problem. That's just saying people with true aim should not have an advantage over those whose aim is not so good in a game where weapons are fired by hand and non-aiming weapons like Streaks and LRMs are held in disdain by the same players claiming convergence is a problem. A bit similar to the problem I stated above about people complaining about others abilities and asking the devs to fix it for them. A person with a very good aim -should- be able to pick off pieces of a mech and hit weakpoints with weapons that require aim to use.

The problem is that MWO is set up for combat at such close ranges that this kind of targetting is the norm. Similar to the problem with ECM, the maps in MWO are so small (or designed to encourage combat at such close ranges) and the weapons so short-ranged that the target is large enough to place shots on specific sections of a moving target without significant chances of a miss. Also, as I stated above, the armor values are so large that mechs don't fear being killed to line up their shots carefully.

If people remember MW3, the combat tended to happen at ranges where specific targetting was very hard to do unless you charged the enemy, which often left you crippled or dead by the time you did so because you didn't have the armor to take general hits as in MWO. Most of the time, just getting a hit on a target at range was a challenge, and anything like specific targetting required the firer stay immobile to do so.

All that aside, none of this is as important as making shutdown a near-fatal occurance. Right now, the biggest problem is that no one fears a shutdown. If you shutdown, you'll take about a single volley of fire which, if you are fairly fresh, your double armor will take and the lack of internal criticals virtually assures you will survive until your mech is back up and running. Thus, it is well worth people pushing heat regularly into the shutdown range or beyond, and even the slight damage from the current system changes nothing in that regard because the damage doesn't do anything significant. In order for shutdown to be a serious problem, it must have serious consequences. And it doesn't.

Thus, convergence and alpha strike penalties are non-issues that won't solve anything. Instead, the penalties for overheating and, -especially-, shutting down must be radically increased to solve this problem. I'd also say overhaul weapons and maps to make extreme long range combat the norm, but I think that would require too much change to what has already been engineered to make it workable as a solution at this point.

My two cents.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 July 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Master Q]

Jakob Knight, on 17 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

The problem is that MWO is set up for combat at such close ranges that this kind of targetting is the norm. Similar to the problem with ECM, the maps in MWO are so small

Politely: please come back once you've actually played the game. The current crop of maps are so chock-full of 1000m chokepoints and sniper range setups that it's downright silly.

Getting to within 270 meters or closer is a pipe dream for all but the smallest of light mechs currently. So much as expose a knee and you'll be gimped and then blown away by the guys on the other end massing 4-5 gauss+ppc sniperboats.

Come to think of it, they've replicated Mechwarrior 3's "legshot-pocalypse" mechanics perfectly. And now I remember why I stopped playing MW3.

Edited by Master Q, 17 July 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

Master Q, on 17 July 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Politely: please come back once you've actually played the game. The current crop of maps are so chock-full of 1000m chokepoints and sniper range setups that it's downright silly.

Getting to within 270 meters or closer is a pipe dream for all but the smallest of light mechs currently. So much as expose a knee and you'll be gimped and then blown away by the guys on the other end massing 4-5 gauss+ppc sniperboats.

Come to think of it, they've replicated Mechwarrior 3's "legshot-pocalypse" mechanics perfectly. And now I remember why I stopped playing MW3.

Hmmm. I have no problem getting within 270 meters of my target in my Catapult whenever I choose to do so. It's just a matter of using the available terrain and being aware of the situation around you. I realize to people without much experience with the game, this could be a problem as they don't realize that it isn't about walking right up to the enemy in a battleline, but I assure you that it is quite possible to achieve point-blank range in all but a very few situations.

But then, I suppose Founders don't spend much time playing this game, do they?

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 July 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Master Q]

I play quite reliably.

Especially with the new broken movement mechanics, managing to get to anywhere in close range is difficult-to-impossible.

Caldera? Whichever side takes their parking spot wins.
Alpine Peaks? Canyon by Kappa is the chokepoint, or it's a snipe-war across Epsilon where the poptarts and high-riders rule by standing just next to hills.
Tourmaline's are similar. 3 transit points everyone has to pass.
Canyon Network has devolved into groups picking a snipe spot that can "view" down a couple of canyons.

The game devolved into a sniperfest. Getting "around" it with the new mechanics in anything but a poptart is asking to be zapped before your weapons even crest the obstacles.

[Kraven Kor]

Master Q, on 17 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

I play quite reliably.

Especially with the new broken movement mechanics, managing to get to anywhere in close range is difficult-to-impossible.

Caldera? Whichever side takes their parking spot wins.
Alpine Peaks? Canyon by Kappa is the chokepoint, or it's a snipe-war across Epsilon where the poptarts and high-riders rule by standing just next to hills.
Tourmaline's are similar. 3 transit points everyone has to pass.
Canyon Network has devolved into groups picking a snipe spot that can "view" down a couple of canyons.

The game devolved into a sniperfest. Getting "around" it with the new mechanics in anything but a poptart is asking to be zapped before your weapons even crest the obstacles.

I am terrible at everything, and do not have this problem. Or, at least not every match or anything.

In fact, keeping at range when I want to be at range seems harder than closing to brawling range.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 17 July 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[Pht]

Tombstoner, on 17 July 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

Whack a mole game design - Your valid observations will be addressed as they arise.

Assault class omnimechs able to mount 4 gauss rifles or lots of cool running heavy ballistics are not currently part of the game. thus no need to worry. The heat penalty system does take into account clan tech and clan mech designs.

if and when 4x Gauss becomes and issue it could be manages with a jam mechanic similar to the Ultra ac-5. more then 2 fired in .5 seconds and you run the risk of jamming.... see all better.....hey im kinda good at this game design thing. may be i should get into development... o wait i am in development.

If the devs can convince themselves that violating the laws of thermodynamics is ok. Then arbitrary adding in jamming gremlins for more then 2 gauss is well within there capacity.

so the game is in its best state ever......

I think your sarcasm here might have been missed by a few people.

[Geminus]

Jakob Knight, on 17 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Well, I don't agree with convergence being the problem. That's just saying people with true aim should not have an advantage over those whose aim is not so good in a game where weapons are fired by hand and non-aiming weapons like Streaks and LRMs are held in disdain by the same players claiming convergence is a problem. A bit similar to the problem I stated above about people complaining about others abilities and asking the devs to fix it for them. A person with a very good aim -should- be able to pick off pieces of a mech and hit weakpoints with weapons that require aim to use.

The problem is that MWO is set up for combat at such close ranges that this kind of targetting is the norm. Similar to the problem with ECM, the maps in MWO are so small (or designed to encourage combat at such close ranges) and the weapons so short-ranged that the target is large enough to place shots on specific sections of a moving target without significant chances of a miss. Also, as I stated above, the armor values are so large that mechs don't fear being killed to line up their shots carefully.

If people remember MW3, the combat tended to happen at ranges where specific targetting was very hard to do unless you charged the enemy, which often left you crippled or dead by the time you did so because you didn't have the armor to take general hits as in MWO. Most of the time, just getting a hit on a target at range was a challenge, and anything like specific targetting required the firer stay immobile to do so.

All that aside, none of this is as important as making shutdown a near-fatal occurance. Right now, the biggest problem is that no one fears a shutdown. If you shutdown, you'll take about a single volley of fire which, if you are fairly fresh, your double armor will take and the lack of internal criticals virtually assures you will survive until your mech is back up and running. Thus, it is well worth people pushing heat regularly into the shutdown range or beyond, and even the slight damage from the current system changes nothing in that regard because the damage doesn't do anything significant. In order for shutdown to be a serious problem, it must have serious consequences. And it doesn't.

Thus, convergence and alpha strike penalties are non-issues that won't solve anything. Instead, the penalties for overheating and, -especially-, shutting down must be radically increased to solve this problem. I'd also say overhaul weapons and maps to make extreme long range combat the norm, but I think that would require too much change to what has already been engineered to make it workable as a solution at this point.

My two cents.

Don't misunderstand me, I beat the same drum you do about skill and players who wine, and I don't think convergence is a problem, sometime I aim CT, sometime I am to take out a weapon, sometimes I aim to hobble and slow them down, it depends on the situation, I just feel that doing the less accurate aim is more to the cannon of battletech and will allow the addition of the targeting computer later, which would be pointless in the current set up.

[MrMasakari]

I still think the problem is to do with weapon viability from basic mechanics and stats. Lbxs, flamers, large pulse lasers, narcs, srms(being dealt with) compared to adding this rather complicated alpha limitation system which is already flawed, as you can still boat relatively easily on assault mechs, which lets be honest, are not actually getting affected massively by this. The smaller mechs are being hit harder due to tonnage restrictions, even though its the quad+ ppc built assault mechs that the problem. These quad builds which have now turned into Duo+Duo builds instead. The stats should just be changed, 1 less point of damage or increased heat for PPCS or whatever, alongside flamer buffs/machine guns/LPL/Narcs etctc

Its nice to see some kind of heat scaling though, as it should be in (espescially by canon) but I think it should be a general thing, compared to this alpha limitation stuff which seems a clunky way of going around adding a general heat system that will impaire your mech's general function + capabilities when constantly exposed to excessive heat, this would also make flamers more viable as heat would have a much bigger role to play in the game. Compared to being pretty much negligible until you get to around 90% or shut down.

Edited by Artaire, 17 July 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[wmusil]

I was confused by one thing, and I tested it. 24 multiplier for AC20? Wow,

I have a Boom jager and chainfire works just fine. I did melt it once intentionally just to see the effect of the penalty.

My real question is this. "How is it that Boom Jager or anything with 2x AC20 are so much more dangerous, and thus so much more in need of a heat penalty than anything else?

Really don't care, the Boom Jager is a toy for me, and my 3xAC5 3xML Ilya is my go to. It just seems strange to me that the penalty be so highly skewed when it comes to AC20.

[keith]

wmusil, on 17 July 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

I was confused by one thing, and I tested it. 24 multiplier for AC20? Wow,

I have a Boom jager and chainfire works just fine. I did melt it once intentionally just to see the effect of the penalty.

My real question is this. "How is it that Boom Jager or anything with 2x AC20 are so much more dangerous, and thus so much more in need of a heat penalty than anything else?

Really don't care, the Boom Jager is a toy for me, and my 3xAC5 3xML Ilya is my go to. It just seems strange to me that the penalty be so highly skewed when it comes to AC20.

the real question is how come all weapons do not have some sort of boat multiplier on them? PGI yet again picking and choosing things they wish to do, even though it didn't work. when can we get a real balance team in here?

[Dirkdaring]

Jakob Knight, on 17 July 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Got a 3x GR Cataphract? Run around him to his base and cap it while he slowly tries to trundle back. Got a 6xERPPC Hunchback?

3x GR Cataphract? 6xERPPC Hunchback?

Yeeeeeeah.

[Dimento Graven]

I think the thing that we all forget, especially when debating the TT heat values of weapons is the original TT Heat Scale affects table on the side of your 'mech record sheets.

See, the way it "seems" to operate in MWO is, as long as you don't "over heat" you can traipse along, tra la la, with no ill affect. You could be at 99% of maximum heat the entire game, NO PROBLEM.

What PGI has failed to do is implement all the heat affects between "low" heat and "SHUTDOWN".

Here's the scale for those of you that didn't play TT, or have forgotten:

30 Shutdown
29
28 Ammo Explosion, avoid on 8+
27
26 Shutdown, avoid on 10+
25 -5 Movement Points
24 +4 Modifer to Fire
23 Ammo Explosion, avoid on 6+
22 Shutdown, avoid on 8+
21
20 -4 Movement Points
19 Ammo Explosion, avoid on 4+
18 Shutdown, avoid on 6+
17 +3 Modifier to Fire
16
15 -3 Movement Points
14 Shutdown, avoid on 4+
13 +2 Modifier to fire
12
11
10 -2 Movement Points
09
08 +1 Modifier to fire
07
06
05 -1 Movement points
04
03
02
01
00

So what PGI has done is, effectively removed all the other heat affects from the game. You get, running, shutdown, or override shutdown and damage.

Pretty much it.

However, to implement this right, they should have all the intermediate affects implemented as well. That's been MY problem with how they implemented heat in this game, you have people firing 4 to 6 PPC's multiple times in a row, not shutting down and that would NEVER have been a viable strategy with original BattleTech.

Again, to enhance the immersion of the game, PGI needs to implement the heat scale above, where there are multiple chances to shut down as your 'mech gets hotter, multiple chances for ammo explosion if you're not managing your heat consciously, multiple affects on your movement and ability to aim weapons. Implementing the original heat scale with its various affects would be more fair, and serve as longer term solution than targeting 'boats', as the affect of the above heat scale affects EVERY 'MECH design, regardless of how many of what weapon you decide to equip or use.

It makes heat management skill as much a factor as piloting, gunnery skill, and/or 'mech design skill.

[Jack Jumper]

uhhh.... wtf?

I've been playing instead of lurking lately - why did they implement this cat's turrd? (EDIT: changed t u r d to turrd - WTF PGI??? Is t u r d reeally so bad that you have to asterisk it out?!

Please tell me it wasn't to nerf jagermechs... while they are annoying, they are easy to beat (just don't get close to them).

Are they trying to force people to play a certain style to fit their idea of how battletech should work?

Because that is dousche'ry.... especially since their lead guy doesn't play table top according to that interview he did on "no guts no galaxy".

EDIT: deleted disparaging remarks about the dev team and replaced it with a big "thumb's up!" to the post immediately above mine.

EDIT2: I forgot to mention.... you guys broke the game again. It has been freezing up mid battle since the patch. I had zero issues in the previous version.

Edited by Jack Jumper, 17 July 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[MrMasakari]

Dimento Graven, on 17 July 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

I think the thing that we all forget, especially when debating the TT heat values of weapons is the original TT Heat Scale affects table on the side of your 'mech record sheets.

See, the way it "seems" to operate in MWO is, as long as you don't "over heat" you can traipse along, tra la la, with no ill affect. You could be at 99% of maximum heat the entire game, NO PROBLEM.

What PGI has failed to do is implement all the heat affects between "low" heat and "SHUTDOWN".

Here's the scale for those of you that didn't play TT, or have forgotten:

30 Shutdown
29
28 Ammo Explosion, avoid on 8+
27
26 Shutdown, avoid on 10+
25 -5 Movement Points
24 +4 Modifer to Fire
23 Ammo Explosion, avoid on 6+
22 Shutdown, avoid on 8+
21
20 -4 Movement Points
19 Ammo Explosion, avoid on 4+
18 Shutdown, avoid on 6+
17 +3 Modifier to Fire
16
15 -3 Movement Points
14 Shutdown, avoid on 4+
13 +2 Modifier to fire
12
11
10 -2 Movement Points
09
08 +1 Modifier to fire
07
06
05 -1 Movement points
04
03
02
01
00

So what PGI has done is, effectively removed all the other heat affects from the game. You get, running, shutdown, or override shutdown and damage.

Pretty much it.

However, to implement this right, they should have all the intermediate affects implemented as well. That's been MY problem with how they implemented heat in this game, you have people firing 4 to 6 PPC's multiple times in a row, not shutting down and that would NEVER have been a viable strategy with original BattleTech.

Again, to enhance the immersion of the game, PGI needs to implement the heat scale above, where there are multiple chances to shut down as your 'mech gets hotter, multiple chances for ammo explosion if you're not managing your heat consciously, multiple affects on your movement and ability to aim weapons. Implementing the original heat scale with its various affects would be more fair, and serve as longer term solution than targeting 'boats', as the affect of the above heat scale affects EVERY 'MECH design, regardless of how many of what weapon you decide to equip or use.

It makes heat management skill as much a factor as piloting, gunnery skill, and/or 'mech design skill.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say aswell, heat is a factor that doesn't really effect you until you've actually shut down, which is completley against TT rules. They should have implemented this instead of the current system, and just changed the stat slightly on the supposed OP or boated weapon. It would also make flamers useful if heat was scaled as it should, as a slight change in heat could be the difference between you running away from your enemy/ destroying them, or your ammo detonating.

It makes heat management an actual skill, as it was ACTUALLY intended.

Edited by Artaire, 18 July 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[Geminus]

I was just login it to say that they have neglected to add the heat scale effects and see that you beat me to it.
But, they need to add the heat scale effects. That and making the heat what it is in table top. They have been LOWERING the heat away TT and now are adding obscene heat peniltys on top of the heat mechanic that exsists but they are not implementing. Put the whole heat mechanic in, put the heat and damage to TT Values.
And please, everybody, stop crying about "boats". Its not obsene or overpowered to have a mech that specilizes in one area of weapon. Its warfare, they should be doing that. Some mechs go diverse, some go speciliazed. By specilizng you are building in your own weakness, by going heavy weapons you sacrafice speed, Ive said this so many times I wasnt to cry. Every time I hear someone say that a "boat" needs to be nerfed it makes me insane. If I come across a 6 ERPPC stalker, I dont cry and post that its unfair, I out manever it, I fight it on my terms, not his terms. And above all i remeber that I have a F'ing team to coordinate with.
This heat scale addition has to go. And the crying about "boating" has to go.

Artarie says
"It makes heat management an actual skill, as it was ACTUALLY intended"

I build my mechs with that in mind. I have mechs with 3 LLs that run beautifully, but now have been deemed as OP or a "boat" I guess, and the planing and design I put into them mean crap. My planed out mechs now run like garbage instead of the fine tuned machines that they were. I could have jam packed my heavy metal or victor with way more fire power than they have and said to hell with the loss of speed or heat buildup. I built a balanced mech. AND If I choose to say to hell with, thats my buisness, Im that one that will shut down, im the one that will have a snails speed, thats my buisness. Don't whine and say it has to many weapons, thats insane! THERE. ASSAULT. MECHS. They are supposed to have all the fire power. SO stop crying and take advantage of the weakness that all those weapons and heat mean.
And the more people cry about "boats" the more the Devs are going to screw up the game, which is what this heat scale is.
I have lost all faith in them. I still have hope, but no faith.

Edited by Geminus, 18 July 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[Gulinborsti]

Geminus, on 18 July 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

I was just login it to say that they have neglected to add the heat scale effects and see that you beat me to it.
But, they need to add the heat scale effects. That and making the heat what it is in table top. They have been LOWERING the heat away TT and now are adding obscene heat peniltys on top of the heat mechanic that exsists but they are not implementing. Put the whole heat mechanic in, put the heat and damage to TT Values.
And please, everybody, stop crying about "boats". Its not obsene or overpowered to have a mech that specilizes in one area of weapon. Its warfare, they should be doing that. Some mechs go diverse, some go speciliazed. By specilizng you are building in your own weakness, by going heavy weapons you sacrafice speed, Ive said this so many times I wasnt to cry. Every time I hear someone say that a "boat" needs to be nerfed it makes me insane. If I come across a 6 ERPPC stalker, I dont cry and post that its unfair, I out manever it, I fight it on my terms, not his terms. And above all i remeber that I have a F'ing team to coordinate with.
This heat scale addition has to go. And the crying about "boating" has to go.

Artarie says
"It makes heat management an actual skill, as it was ACTUALLY intended"

I build my mechs with that in mind. I have mechs with 3 LLs that run beautifully, but now have been deemed as OP or a "boat" I guess, and the planing and design I put into them mean crap. My planed out mechs now run like garbage instead of the fine tuned machines that they were. I could have jam packed my heavy metal or victor with way more fire power than they have and said to hell with the loss of speed or heat buildup. I built a balanced mech. AND If I choose to say to hell with, thats my buisness, Im that one that will shut down, im the one that will have a snails speed, thats my buisness. Don't whine and say it has to many weapons, thats insane! THERE. ASSAULT. MECHS. They are supposed to have all the fire power. SO stop crying and take advantage of the weakness that all those weapons and heat mean.
And the more people cry about "boats" the more the Devs are going to screw up the game, which is what this heat scale is.
I have lost all faith in them. I still have hope, but no faith.

It were actually those particular "boats" (aka max alpha damage one shot killers) which screwed up the gameplay for many players, including myself and most of the people I am playing with.

It might be a personal flavour if someone likes balanced loadouts or specialized builds, but all the different playstyles should be viable options. The late PPC / AC20 frenzy forced people to join in or get wasted -> fail.

The new heat penalties might not have been the best solution, but it seems to works in a way that I see more different tactics, loadouts and playstyles again. I hope it stays this way and the game develops even further away from "SniperWarrior:Online".

[MustrumRidcully]

Jakob Knight, on 17 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Well, I don't agree with convergence being the problem. That's just saying people with true aim should not have an advantage over those whose aim is not so good in a game where weapons are fired by hand and non-aiming weapons like Streaks and LRMs are held in disdain by the same players claiming convergence is a problem. A bit similar to the problem I stated above about people complaining about others abilities and asking the devs to fix it for them. A person with a very good aim -should- be able to pick off pieces of a mech and hit weakpoints with weapons that require aim to use.

The deal with convergence is that it's coupled with group fire and alpha strikes, which makes aiming easy for everyone. Think about how much more difficult it is to land 4 shots in a row on the same target then it is to land a single shot. Convergence + Group Fire gives you the computer guided abilty tol and 4 shots at one spot.

People that want convergence changed want this "easy-mode" aspect removed. They don't want to make the game harder for skilled players, they want to reward skilled players, people that can actually manage to fire a shot every 0.25 to 05 seconds and hit the very same spot every time.

A small minority of people want a cone of fire system, but that's not even required for the goal of rewarding the people that can aim well and land multiple shows in a row. What is required are mechanics that force people to chain-fire more - which is what the heat penalty, as dumb as I find its designed - tried to do, and what many player suggestions try to do, too. If your weapons would not converge at all, for example, then your weapons would hit on the target at the same distance from the targeted point as they are from your crosshair. A skilled player could account for this when chain-firing and apply lead for every weapon based on its position on his mech.

I think the easiest way to require more chain-firing is to just get rid of group-fire and give every weapon an individual chain-fire cooldown that always triggers when another weapon is fired (and like every cooldown, is server enforced, so no macroing away).

The cooldown is weapon-specific so that beam weaopns and low damage per projectile weapons can have lower cooldowns than large damage projectile weapons. A 0.5 second cooldown could work for an AC/20, but for an ML user it would be way too long.

[NextGame]

The recent heat changes have produced an illogical and complicated mess that doesn't achieve anything other than forcing players to gear mechs in bizarre ways that no one other than die hard table top fans would really want to. Please revert the heat changes back to what they were pre 16th July and resolve the sniping oriented gameplay in a different way (hint: this patch didn't do anything to resolve it).

The SRM damage buff makes sense and should stay in place.

[arghmace]

NextGame, on 18 July 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

forcing players to gear mechs in bizarre ways that no one other than die hard table top fans would really want to.

I've never played TT but I've always found boats to be boring. A mech with multiple different weapons is much more fun to play.