68 replies to this topic

[Galenit]

Specops12, on 11 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

It seems that the devs can either make lrms either useless or tremendously OP. At present state, if lrms travel incredibly fast, can lock quickly and with line of sight are CTing mechs in only a few volleys. The spread of the missiles needs to be spread out more, more missiles should miss and the velocity or lock time or target retention need to be nerfed. At present rate an assault at full health cant even attempt to push up 300m on an lrm boat without being cored. Lrms are destroying the game... again....

Rushing with los will kill you against a lot of mechs:

300m at 50kph thats around 21,6 seconds,

thats 2 salvos of 4 lrm 15 (you wont get hit under 180m, he can only fire 2 times prior you reach that point) = 132 damage
or 5 times 2xac20 hits = 200 damage
or 5 times 4-6 ppcs = 200 - 300 damage (300 is less likely, maybe with coolantflush?)
or 5 times 5x LargeLaser = 225 damage
or 7 times with 9x mediumlaser = around 315 damage (dont want to do the math, the first shoot will do less because of range)
or 43 times with 6 AC2 = 516 damage

[MrMasakari]

The only thing that needs fixing is the spread, both in LRMs and SRMs. They have pinballed between OP and UP for quite some time and tbh I think they are quite close to balanced now compared to their previous states. The damage needs to be spread out more across the 'mech, compared to mainly hitting torsos (bare in mind a large majority of mechs are XL fitted, which ofcourse makes this problem seem much worse).

[Bagheera]

Specops12, on 11 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

I am playing the same game and they are ridiculously OP

Then you clearly missed LurmAggeddons 1, 2, and 3. LRMs are what they should be right now. An annoyance if you are paying attention, and a death sentence if you are foolishly in the open when the enemy has a boat or two.

Specops12, on 11 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

At present rate an assault at full health cant even attempt to push up 300m on an lrm boat without being cored. Lrms are destroying the game... again....

This only happens if you are waddling towards them in a straight line across open ground.

Trust me guy. At one point LRMs would find your location, pause directly above your head, and make a right angle turn straight down on top of you. That was OP. Then there were the days when they went through cover, or could follow you into caves, or had broken splash damage that was head-shotting everyone.

Edited by Bagheera, 12 July 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[Sir Ratburger]

I sort of disagree that they are overpowered, I have a 20lrm rack in one of my Atlases and I rarely ever kill anyone with them... very rarely. they are useful for softening up a target but that's about it unless you boat them and as with anything when you boat them and fire them all at once it hurts - But.... you have an Anti-missile system system in the game and when you stick in groups with other people who have this then most missiles never reach ya.

Most of the other times you can hide behind a rock or other random cover... if you are out in the open then its pretty much your own fault if you get hammered by LRM's

Edited by Sir Ratburge, 12 July 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Novakaine]

Specops12, on 11 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

It seems that the devs can either make lrms either useless or tremendously OP. At present state, if lrms travel incredibly fast, can lock quickly and with line of sight are CTing mechs in only a few volleys. The spread of the missiles needs to be spread out more, more missiles should miss and the velocity or lock time or target retention need to be nerfed. At present rate an assault at full health cant even attempt to push up 300m on an lrm boat without being cored. Lrms are destroying the game... again....

Please just stop it, and further more just what game are you playing.
Or better yet just stop hating.
Normally if a mech gets within 300 meters of me, I'm dead.
Use some freaking cover and don't stand on ridgelines skylining yourself.
But please stop calling for nerfs just because you got shanked due to your own fault.

[Voivode]

I think a final adjustment to LRM where the spread was a little bigger and the speed a little faster would put them on spot. They're way better than the LRMageddon days or the super nerf days they've had. LRM boating is going to change anyways since more than 2 LRM15s will produce phantom heat after the 16th.

[Frisk]

If you honestly believe that LRMs are OP and aren't trolling... I might suggest a few things:

-Learn to be aware of the mechs around you, not just the one you're laser focused on.
-Use cover (do I really need to explain this?)
-Equip an AMS
-Don't ever go into a wide open field with no cover.

If you do those things, you will laugh at LRMs.

Edited by Frisk, 12 July 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

SirLANsalot, on 11 July 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

LRM's need TAG+ARTEMIS to be able to core a mech....AT ALL. Even then you need LRM20's and 15's to be able to do that, 10's and 5's are in the perfect zone for annoyance but need lots of ammo to get a kill. On top of that, LRMs have a PERFECT counters and compleatly negate them. Cover is one and AMS is another, AMS IS the primary counter to LRM's and even if you get hit by the LRMs think of AMS as a damage reduction system.

Also ONLY the LRM boats themselves are the ones able to do this killing with the "big guns" of LRM's. They are the only ones that can "ignore", for the most part, AMS. As they do fire enough LRMs in one volly, to get though just about any AMS.

Agree with everything except the usefulness of AMS. It is a counter but a rather limited one and it absolutely cannot counter swarms of missiles, even multiples working together. Also its effectiveness changes by amount to tubes a mech can launch at once. For example a LRM15 fired by a Raven (and its two lanuchers) will have each and every missile shot out of the sky without fail. This is due to the delay between each missile being fired. However, if say a Awesome dumpped a LRM15 in one single swarm at the same mech, the AMS MIGHT be able to knock down 3-4 maybe.

That being said, even 4 AMSs firing at a Catapult's LRM 40 swarm of missiles all coming in together is only going to knock out 10-12 missiles leaving 28 or so to slam into their target and with even just Atermis, it is not going to take a whole lot of those swarms to finish off any mech. If you only got a single AMS, heaven help you.

ECM on the other hand is brutal against LRMs (and streaks). Doesn't matter if the ECM mech is sticking by the enemy or if they are within 200m of you, you totally lose the abilty to lock LRMs and have them track your target. TAG is your only counter but since that requires line of sight, it doesn't help near as much as one would hope.

LRMs also have slow flight times and it is usually pretty easy to get to cover if your smart about your positioning and surrounding. The exception is when your in direct line of sight of LRM boat at 200-400m. Then there is nothing you can do except take a beating and hope you can get to cover or inside their range ASAP.

Also if the enemy has a massive amount of launchers and enough other mechs to tie you up for a few minutes engaging them, if you don't have ECM, your team is toast.

The end result is that I would classify LRMs as situationally overpowered. However those situations are really kind of few and far between. In general gameplay, they run the gauntlet between being decently balanced to drastically ineffective.

Personally I think it is those rare situations they they just dominate, that people seem to remember and post complaints about, not that LRMs are in any way shape or form OPed 90% of the time.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 12 July 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Lugh]

Thinking LRMs are overpowered is like thinking Justin Bieber is a good music talent and not simply a douche.

[Hauser]

Viktor Drake, on 12 July 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

The end result is that I would classify LRMs as situationally overpowered. However those situations are really kind of few and far between. In general gameplay, they run the gauntlet between being decently balanced to drastically ineffective.

I think it's more like an opposed skill check.

It's the targets ability to pilot and either break LOS or get cover against the launchers (and spotters) ability to get into a good position and maintain lock.

[Skyfaller]

Dawnstealer, on 12 July 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

it's 55 missiles arcing at the target at once. No amount of AMS is going to stop that, or even most of that. If all that hits the CT of nearly any mech, it's going to be a smoking ruin very quickly.

Actually it would if the entire team equipped AMS and was within 200m of each other. You know, rolling as a group.

I dropped with a 4x stalker 5s lance once.. everyone had dual ams. The enemy LRM boat was ******* blood at the fact his quad LRM15's were being chomped out of existence in mid-air.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

LRM's are situationally overpowered when you play against people who are TERRIBLE at this game.

I'm tired of sugar coating this particular topic, trying to explain to people how to not die to LRM's.

If you die to LRM's, there are really 2 options.

1. As I said, you are terrible. The terrible people make threads like this one.

2. You are an average or good player and made a dumb mistake, that you would have paid for whether it was LRM's, PPC's, AC/20's or any other weapon.

The only reason it looks worse when you die to LRM's is because you probably didn't have AMS or strayed to far from the ECM mech. With PPC's and AC/20's you don't really have any recourse.

[Sug]

LRMs are only OP against below average players.

[JohnnyWayne]

Guys 2 days ago i'd loled with you. But yesterday I played on the 12v12 test server and belive me. Lrm's in such an amount are op.

Reason:

One socut is enough to break loose living hell of Lrm rain. No chance to get in cover with that flight angle and its almost impossible to break los with all that players on the map. This summed up to an auto guided indirect fire weapon... Well...

Moreover I was completely destroyed from 100% ct to dead (105 dmg) in 2 salvos. Sry but this is not ok.

I don't know what it is but it always seemed to me that lrms are bugged. Sometimes they almost don't do damage at all and then there are the moments when I just die by them.

Personally I think this should be looked at and the flightpath has to be less steep so that people actually can use cover again. If damage is not bugged I'd propose that its at least set to TT values.

Edit: Oh yes, Alpine needs more lrm cover...

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 12 July 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[Sephlock]

Once again, you whippersnappers don't know what "broken" is:

Edited by Sephlock, 12 July 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[Sug]

JohnnyWayne, on 12 July 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Moreover I was completely destroyed from 100% ct to dead (105 dmg) in 2 salvos. Sry but this is not ok.

LRM15 x 4 x 1.7 = 102 per salvo x 2 = 204. Typical lrm stalker boat

[Nicholas Carlyle]

JohnnyWayne, on 12 July 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Guys 2 days ago i'd loled with you. But yesterday I played on the 12v12 test server and belive me. Lrm's in such an amount are op.

Reason:

One socut is enough to break loose living hell of Lrm rain. No chance to get in cover with that flight angle and its almost impossible to break los with all that players on the map. This summed up to an auto guided indirect fire weapon... Well...

Moreover I was completely destroyed from 100% ct to dead (105 dmg) in 2 salvos. Sry but this is not ok.

I don't know what it is but it always seemed to me that lrms are bugged. Sometimes they almost don't do damage at all and then there are the moments when I just die by them.

Personally I think this should be looked at and the flightpath has to be less steep so that people actually can use cover again. If damage is not bugged I'd propose that its at least set to TT values.

Edit: Oh yes, Alpine needs more lrm cover...

Did all of you have AMS? Did any of you have ECM? Did any of you bother to...I don't know, turn your 12 mechs and kill that one spotter in one volley?

Blaming Alpine is yet another excuse for bad players. It sounds like you guys got caught stupidly in the open.

[Iqfish]

I really like the current status of the Long Range Missiles. Running 2x ALRM-15 on my AS7-RS and it is great fun
LRM became a tactical element again and they can remain in this status in my opinion.

[JohnnyWayne]

Dude I was in cover, any weapon is countered by cover. Except lrms. Thats what makes them too strong in the first place. I don't pack in any means to counter any weapon in particular than skill. I can't do this against PPC's and not against Gauss or Lasers. Why should I need to do so for lrms? Cover has always to work. This is broken by the flightpath and by that lockon module, which lukily almost noone uses.

Im not blaming alpine read my ****** post. "Oh noes he said something against my lrm boat, but thats the only ******* thing im "good" at, flame him!"... Srsly like WoW forums...

Its not one spotter, as I said there are spotters everywhere let alone by the sheer mass of players. Stop ripping the meaning apart and also stop arguing about obvious issues. Try to play on the testserver next time and watch that issue. Then we can talk again.

Remember: All I said was based on that 12v12 test.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 12 July 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'm going to tell you right now, you were not in cover if you got hit by the LRM's.

If the LRM'***** you, it's not cover, and you are a bad player like most of the other complainers.