185 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Carlyle]

This is stupid. Lights should have other Roles besides fighting anyway. Would this even be a conversation if PGI had actually put in role warfare like they had planned?

I still can't believe people think this hurts lights.

The current system allows anyone with a good ping to one shot a light with no thought involved at all.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

No its called fair. Go outside with an Air soft gun and stand still and fire, then shoot it as you run by a target, Now do the same while doing a drive by! See which is more accurate.

It is actually the opposite of fair. A stop or slow to shoot situation heavily favors the heavier mech.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 12 July 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

This is stupid. Lights should have other Roles besides fighting anyway. Would this even be a conversation if PGI had actually put in role warfare like they had planned?

I still can't believe people think this hurts lights.

The current system allows anyone with a good ping to one shot a light with no thought involved at all.

Okay, use the same example against mediums. What exactly changes?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The only thing keeping lights alive right now is they broke hit detection yet again.

And certain models (Spiders) are broken.

Sorry 3rd, I'm beyond trying to explain things to certain people and you are one of them.

I'm almost at the point where you are going to join ignore with hammerreborn and some of the other ECM putzes.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sorry but on TT the faster you and your target moved the harder it was to hit. You wanna have a better chance of hitting your target you need to slow down, cause I doubt they will oblige your wish to kill them.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

on TT

Found the problem.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 12 July 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Found the problem.

Actually you found the Solution. I can tell you I am a much better shot from a stable firing platform than a moving one. I don't know many(any) people who are as good a shot when moving as they are when still.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 July 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Actually you found the Solution. I can tell you I am a much better shot from a stable firing platform than a moving one. I don't know many(any) people who are as good a shot when moving as they are when still.

That is all well and good, but that doesn't lead to a balanced game. which is considerably more important than realism or a slavish adherence to TT.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 12 July 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

The only thing keeping lights alive right now is they broke hit detection yet again.

And certain models (Spiders) are broken.

Sorry 3rd, I'm beyond trying to explain things to certain people and you are one of them.

I'm almost at the point where you are going to join ignore with hammerreborn and some of the other ECM putzes.

Don't worry, I won't lose sleep over it.

Edited by 3rdworld, 12 July 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

This is stupid. Lights should have other Roles besides fighting anyway.

Exactly. But scouting/electronic warfare/spotting, tagging, narcing have absolutely no place in the game. And without the ability to repair your mech in between hit-and-run attacks there is no viable means for a light mech to harass.

[Thundercles]

Training Instructor, on 12 July 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Weapons wiggling a bit in their sockets is one thing, but the massive wiggling required for some of these convergence shots defies the entire concept of critical allocation inside the mech. If you're telling me I don't have room for a simple double heatsink or ton of ammo because all of my crit spaces are filled, then there shouldn't be much room for massive weapons to wiggle. Machine guns, medium lasers, and the like I could definitely see having a lot of wiggle room. A gauss, AC20, PPC, etc though? Give me a frakking break.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, perhaps part of the critical allocation requirements for such massive weapons is DUE to the articulation equipment?

[GingerBang]

Still waiting for anyone to mention PGI's reasoning behind it... if any. (my money is still on another engine limitation)

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 12 July 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

That is all well and good, but that doesn't lead to a balanced game. which is considerably more important than realism or a slavish adherence to TT.

Sorry you feel that way. A balanced game means every chassis is effective. It does not mean it is effective for everyone. I am not looking for true realism. If I were I'd be killing folks for real, But plain and simple if you are moving faster you are less accurate. I will stand a deliver when I need to as it is. But some folks have also hit the nail. Lights are nt meant to go toe to toe with assaults, it is all over the place. Great story: A Atlas pilot accepted a challenge to battle against a company of Wasps (20t Mech) When the fight was over, He limped back to his Mech bay an the Wasps were a smoking mess.

[tuffy963]

tuffy963, on 12 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Why couldn't the recital have one or more Areas of Uncertainty (AOU) that expand and contract with movement, torso twisting, and jumping. Here is the basic layout you see in other games...

• The AOU has a minimum size for each weapon representing accuracy - long range weapons have better AOU's than short range
  
• The speed a which AOU's shrink is a function of agility - short range weapons have better agility so their AOU's shrink faster
  
• The growth factor of an AOU is a function of the weapon's stablity - Torso mounted weapon's have less AOU growth when moving than arm mounted weapons

This is pretty much how game's like Modern warfare handle the concept of weapon accuracy, MWO could use a similar system...

Bumping my own solution for great justice!

[tredmeister]

Is this really a serious question? We already have this technology today! Every mech in the game has a targeting computer. So... are you saying they should have "lost" this ability 1000+ years in the future?

I will say that convergence should only work on a targeted mech. Otherwise, weapons should converge at a fixed point (just like WWII aircraft).

Edited by tredmeister, 12 July 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Hotthedd]

tredmeister, on 12 July 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Is this really a serious question? We already have this technology today! Every mech in the game has a targeting computer. So... are you saying they should have "lost" this ability 1000+ years in the future?

I will say that convergence should only work on a targeted mech. Otherwise, weapons should converge at a fixed point (just like WWII aircraft).

You are correct, except for two things:
1) we do NOT have the technology to fire multiple weapons from a moving target with pinpoint accuracy, and
2) None of the mechs in the game have Targeting computers, as the technology is not available in the Inner Sphere in 3050.

But other than that, you are right.

[tredmeister]

Hotthedd, on 12 July 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

... None of the mechs in the game have Targeting computers, as the technology is not available in the Inner Sphere in 3050...

Then why do we have a little red rectangle around an enemy mech that our missiles can track?

(Sorry, not a huge BT geek, and never played TT, so...)

Edited by tredmeister, 12 July 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Hotthedd]

tredmeister, on 12 July 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Then why do we have a little red rectangle around an enemy mech that our missiles can track?

(Sorry, not a huge BT geek, and never played TT, so...)

An IFF indicator is not a targeting computer. Targeting computers weigh 3 tons + 1 ton for every weapon. In addition it takes up critical slots on the mech.

[Pht]

BlackIronTarkus, on 11 July 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Lets not forget that its a FPS we are playing, if it was suposed to be TT, we would have a sky/down view.

A MW video game is not an FPS.

A MW video game is a first-person real time armored combat simulator, where the armored combat unit is supposed actually matter in combat, instead of being a big FPS avatar.

... and absolutely nobody has said that MW should be a top-down game (or turn based, or any of those strawmen).

Some of us (mostly myself, it seems) realize that the TT gives usable numbers to outline how well a battlemech can actually physically align it's weapons and how well a battlemech's targeting computers can work to calculate the proper points for the 'mech to physically align it's weapons towards...

Edited by Pht, 12 July 2013 - 05:31 PM.

[tuffy963]

tredmeister, on 12 July 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Is this really a serious question? We already have this technology today! Every mech in the game has a targeting computer. So... are you saying they should have "lost" this ability 1000+ years in the future?
...

A fundamental principle of Mechwarrior canon is the concept of degraded or lost tech due to hundreds of years of succession wars. So yes, that is exactly what it means...

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Sorry you feel that way. A balanced game means every chassis is effective. It does not mean it is effective for everyone. I am not looking for true realism. If I were I'd be killing folks for real, But plain and simple if you are moving faster you are less accurate. I will stand a deliver when I need to as it is. But some folks have also hit the nail. Lights are nt meant to go toe to toe with assaults, it is all over the place. Great story: A Atlas pilot accepted a challenge to battle against a company of Wasps (20t Mech) When the fight was over, He limped back to his Mech bay an the Wasps were a smoking mess.

Sorry? why?

Lights cannot stand up to an assault now. Lights are the weakest they have ever been. And really need a buff to stand with the rest of the mechs to have any purpose in the game.

If there was some sort of activity they could do instead of taking shots of opportunity, it would be great. But that isn't the case.

[Takony]

Well, ATD 42 answers convergence nerf questions, by stating that it's not gonna happen, also no hardpoint changes planned.