51 replies to this topic

[StandingCow]

You can't torso twist to mitigate high alpha damage, because it is instant.

[Khobai]

Quote

You can't torso twist to mitigate high alpha damage, because it is instant.

Exactly. Torso twisting doesnt mitigate alphastrikes at all. I always wait for the enemy mechs to face me again before I alphastrike. What I do is chainfire off weapons while theyre torso twisted away then alphastrike them the moment they turn to face me.

Also cover tends not to be very effective because maps are small and lack strategic variance. Its very easy for a sniper to take up a predetermined position and control most if not all of the map approaches. That is the problem with having such long range weapons relative to the size of the maps.

[DarkJaguar]

You say "Use Cover and Concealment" I say "I do, that's why I die to High Alpha and not DPS".

[TheFlyingScotsman]

OP misses the point entirely. Torso twisting in a medium does only one thing, exposes your side torso, which has less armor, and if you are an even vaguely reasonable pilot of a medium, your XL engine's extensions. Part of the problem with the game right now is that mediums have to be at full speed to be successful, unlike heavies and assaults.

Also unlike heavies and assaults, mediums and lights are unable to bear a reasonably FP without the assistance of an XL engine to free up weight. STD engines just dont cut it for weight/speed ratios for anything under heavy without heavily gimping weapons or heat dispersion.

This is also part of the problem with MWO in general. On top of having disproportionate armor compared to smaller mechs due to the double armor buff (Necessary and yet still ineffective for small mechs against boats) mediums and lights are simply not in a position to use standard engines.

On top of this problem, OP fails to realize how ranged weapons work. They fire projectiles at greatly faster speeds than mechs. Even if you spend 95% of your time in cover, the second you pop out, the enemy can shoot and strike you before you can get back in, even if you are moving. This is why the larger your mech becomes, the less speed has anything whatsoever to do with the ability to hit targets for enough FP to kill them.

PGI, low speed is NOT a disbenefit to larger mechs, because speed has little of consequence to how fast bullets and lasers travel, and all assaults have more than enough turn speed to follow even light targets, and so even slow engine speeds do not affect their ability to kill much faster targets. This is even more true with seismic sensors present.

Watch any 4ppc stalker video on youtube and you will see the fallacy of this argument. They can strike even the fastest targets during the smallest of windows without any problems. It's as simple as that.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 12 July 2013 - 07:51 PM.

[Takony]

Thankfully no convergence nerf like,ever:
ATD42
"Answer from Paul: Weapon convergence is a tough nut to crack. We want to keep the number of random “dice rolls” to a minimum, and network synchronization can become unpredictable when trying to determine a convergence point that may or may not be moving. It will be necessary to make the convergence point calculation server authoritive and that can cause a desync due to the fact that the simulation runs at different frequencies on the server and client.

While this is something we’ve wanted for a while, it’s becoming more and more apparent that it is going to take some serious engineering time to address. Currently, the engineers who would be working on this are already tasked with other high priority features and investigations. Pulling them off their current schedule will have both short and long term negative effects on the game as a whole, so the chances are very low that they will be able to address convergence any time soon. Convergence will always be something we will keep on the drawing board but as to when it can be tackled is not known at this time.

Regarding the weapon convergence skill in the Pilot Tree, we will be implementing something else in that spot in the near future."

[Appogee]

What a stupid original post.

Firing and hitting without ''miracle convergence'' takes skill. Just like situational awareness, using cover and manouvering etc take skill.

Those of us who want de-convergence want it because we want more skill in the game, and less miracle high insta-alpha pinpoint damage from stupid distances. Not because we don't know how to pilot our Mechs.

[Qrbaza]

Medium can twist torso all he wants but than he will loose one part after another shortly. Ending up with no weapons. Since mediums have almost the same hitbox sizes, speed and torso twist speed, less armor and less damage its completly unfair advantage to drive heavy or assautl mech's on top of that ppl are ppc boating or ac20 boating wich makes medium class uber hard to play... So OP you should learn to think before you speak such nonsence.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

I came in this thread because I thought from the title there was going to be a joke. In some ways I was right.

[Foxfire]

Takony, on 12 July 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

Thankfully no convergence nerf like,ever:
ATD42
"Answer from Paul: Weapon convergence is a tough nut to crack. We want to keep the number of random “dice rolls” to a minimum, and network synchronization can become unpredictable when trying to determine a convergence point that may or may not be moving. It will be necessary to make the convergence point calculation server authoritive and that can cause a desync due to the fact that the simulation runs at different frequencies on the server and client.

While this is something we’ve wanted for a while, it’s becoming more and more apparent that it is going to take some serious engineering time to address. Currently, the engineers who would be working on this are already tasked with other high priority features and investigations. Pulling them off their current schedule will have both short and long term negative effects on the game as a whole, so the chances are very low that they will be able to address convergence any time soon. Convergence will always be something we will keep on the drawing board but as to when it can be tackled is not known at this time.

Regarding the weapon convergence skill in the Pilot Tree, we will be implementing something else in that spot in the near future."

Then high damage alphas will always be an issue unless they add critical engine failures ala MW3.

[Appogee]

If they'd fix convergence they could avoid having to implement strange multi-weapon heat multipliers and other bandaids, which ham-fistedly attempt to address the symptoms without addressing the actual problem.







EDIT: LOL apparently ''a i d s'' is a prohibited word. That's almost as ridiculous as this thread.

Edited by Appogee, 13 July 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

People are not getting the following fact:

Weapon location based convergence IS NOT RANDOM CONE OF FIRE. The weapons would always hit the "same location" as the last shot from the same weapon in the particular slot, but all slots would strike a slightly different location, proportionate to their physical hardpoint location, away from the center reticule.

All it would do is force shots fired all at once to spread, and make pinpoint attacks require individual, careful shots. This would increase the (currently negligible) skill required to hit things with the current "perfect" convergence. Hitting the same spot with every weapon currently takes as much skill as taking candy from a baby. Years of AWP abuse in CSS proved that point and click requires jack-all for intelligence and coordination.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 13 July 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[MisterFiveSeven]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 13 July 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

People are not getting the following fact:

Weapon location based convergence IS NOT RANDOM CONE OF FIRE. The weapons would always hit the "same location" as the last shot from the same weapon in the particular slot, but all slots would strike a slightly different location, proportionate to their physical hardpoint location, away from the center reticule.

All it would do is force shots fired all at once to spread, and make pinpoint attacks require individual, careful shots. This would increase the (currently negligible) skill required to hit things with the current "perfect" convergence. Hitting the same spot with every weapon currently takes as much skill as taking candy from a baby. Years of AWP abuse in CSS proved that point and click requires jack-all for intelligence and coordination.

The AWP in CS (I played in CAL-M in 1.5) is the same as the ER PPC today.

No one ever said it didn't take skill. It's just clearly the best choice in 60+% of situations.

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 13 July 2013 - 08:56 PM.