28 replies to this topic

[Jarl Dane]

I used an XBOX 360 controller from February to May. And then after the first patch in May I haven't been able to use one since.

I was using xpadder but somehow that patch negated all my commands. Did anyone else have this problem, how did you get past it? How do you config your controller?

[evilC]

I have had issues with the xbox controller reading correctly in many games. Typically it is the shoulder analogue buttons that do not behave as they should (Often treats resting place as one end of scale not middle).
I have also seen the xbox controller perform functions even when nothing is bound to joystick (eg right trigger firing a weapon group).
Very annoying for me - I don't actually use an xbox controller for control, I use one on the floor for as my Push-to-talk button for voice comms ("Foot-to-Talk").
Anyways, you may get more mileage from your xbox controller in MWO by using UJR (see my sig).
As a warning though - an xbox controller is about as bad as it gets for aiming. The "throw" (distance of travel of the stick) is way too short for decent accuracy - the only way to get aiming accuracy comparable to a mouse with a joystick is to have an unsprung (or very soft spring), large-throw stick - and an xbox controller is about as far from that as is possible.
For movement / turning though, would be fine.

Edited by evilC, 12 July 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Jarl Dane]

evilC I appreciate you taking the time to respond. As I mentioned in my post I used an Xbox controller for months. I know its limitations. I use my mouse to aim with my right hand and I only used my controller in my left hand. Either way I do not need this to devolve into a discussion about the feasibility of playing with a xbox 360 controller. Also I already use a remapper, Xpadder, and it doesn't solve the issues that happened in the start of May.

I just need to know if ANYONE playing the game right NOW uses an Xbox 360 controller.

[evilC]

Not knowing what your problem is (Or does it just completely fail to recognise it?), there is not a lot I can do to help.

I just set an xbox controller up for movement and it worked fine.
Does the left stick on an unmodified (ie not thru xpadder) pad move the mouse inside mechlab?

[Jarl Dane]

Oh you tried it out?

In the Mech lab area my left analog stick moves my mouse (unmodified). I can't remember if it did that before the patch or not.

I've actually explained my issue twice:

http://mwomercs.com/...26#entry2335326

http://mwomercs.com/...28#entry2335328

Example: Lets say I have no joystick remapper on and my joystick portion of the MWO in-game keybindings are blank. If I press my left analog stick towards my monitor (forward) my Mech will begin walking backwards. The moment I ease off my analog stick my mech will immediately go back to zero KPH (throttle decay). This happens despite having nothing, apparently, bound to my analog AND having throttle decay off (toggling it on/off has no effect with my left analog stick - although it works with my normal keys).

Edited by Mech The Dane, 12 July 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[evilC]

AFAIK Throttle Decay in the options is still a keyboard only thing.
It sounds like you had settings in user.cfg that maybe got wiped?
I am not an expert on joystick settings, but I think you want to put some of the cl_ settings in your user.cfg

Try

cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0

But in reality, an xbox controller should work with nothing in user.cfg
Have you maybe got some stuff in user.cfg that should be deleted?

Edited by evilC, 13 July 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[evilC]

Also, I have a funny feeling that the first stick in windows always controls some stuff no matter what.
It may be worth looking in your windows controllers config to see which stick is set as the "Preferred device". I think you want your xbox controller to NOT be the preferred device.

If you still get no joy, maybe politely ask Loc Nar for some help - he da man when it comes to stick setup.

[evilC]

I just tested and can confirm:

If you have an xbox controller plugged in, but no joystick movement configured, the left stick on the xbox controller still moves your mech in the way you describe (inverted throttle with decay)

[evilC]

Did a bit more testing:
Pls ignore what I said about cl_ vars in the user.cfg - for me they seem to have unpredictable results with the xbox pad.

I also re-read what you said, and in game parlance, what you need is to set your throttle to be "relative" not "absolute".

I can replicate your issue 100% - when I said "it worked OK", what I meant was it worked OK in absolute throttle mode.

I tried all the settings I could, I could not get relative throttle working with any stick, let alone an xbox pad.
If you set "cl_joystick_throttle_range = 1", you get a sort of relative throttle, but it is in the "reverse mode" where full stick down is stop, full stick up is accelerate, however stick middle is half speed, not "No change in speed".

I am not sure how to achieve this, but someone should be. As mentioned before, I bet Loc Nar would know.

Edited by evilC, 13 July 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[Jarl Dane]

Well. Thanks for trying. I am pretty new to windows. I only use it to play MWO. So I struggle a little with some things.

I guess i should send a message to Loc Nar then? If i actually was able to set my throttle to 'relative' that would allow me to not have to deal with the 'reverse mode' issue?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Yes I use an XBOX 360 controller, the trick is to work out the extra axis that the controller uses as the shoulder triggers. Same issues I had with MW4.

[Jarl Dane]

Okay.
I have no idea how to do that. Could you tell me what you did?
In exact terms..

[evilC]

Mech The Dane, on 13 July 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Well. Thanks for trying. I am pretty new to windows. I only use it to play MWO. So I struggle a little with some things.

I guess i should send a message to Loc Nar then? If i actually was able to set my throttle to 'relative' that would allow me to not have to deal with the 'reverse mode' issue?

Yes, that is correct.

mwhighlander, on 13 July 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yes I use an XBOX 360 controller, the trick is to work out the extra axis that the controller uses as the shoulder triggers. Same issues I had with MW4.

This is a separate issue to the throttle working in relative mode. This is the original reason I suggested UJR, as it fixes this issue, but this is not the user's problem.

[Jarl Dane]

But if mwhighlander is currently able to use his Xbox 360 controller wouldn't that mean he has found a way to put the throttle in relative mode?

Anyways i am gonna message Loc Nar right now with a link to this thread.

[evilC]

Mech The Dane, on 14 July 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

But if mwhighlander is currently able to use his Xbox 360 controller wouldn't that mean he has found a way to put the throttle in relative mode?

Anyways i am gonna message Loc Nar right now with a link to this thread.

Quite possibly not. There is nothing wrong with absolute mode throttle, and relative mode is not as efficient as absolute.
With absolute, you can set the throttle to whatever you desire instantly. The mech may take some time to reach that speed, but you can move the stick to a point you want and then instantly put your brain to another task.
With relative, you have to hold the stick in a position until it gets where you want, then release. This takes more concentration away from fighting.
Obviously absolute has the disadvantage that you have to hold the stick in place to keep moving forwards, but in terms of pure efficiency, it is better.

Edited by evilC, 14 July 2013 - 02:51 AM.

[evilC]

How about this for a compromise?
Keep it on absolute throttle, but also map the d-pad to digital movement.

When walking long distances, use the dpad to throttle up to full and steer.
As soon as you get into action, start using the analogue stick and it will override the dpad.

ie you can use both methods together
if you set speed with dpad up/down, then as long as you do not move the analogue stick, it will keep that speed setting. You *may* need to alter the deadzone settings on the stick to make sure it is not sending anything when sitting untouched.

Then, when you start moving the stick, it will override the speed set with the dpad.

You *might* even be able to use analogue steer with dpad set speed, if you could be accurate enough with stick input to not move it up or down at all, or if you set a big deadzone.

UJR will let you see the actual output coming out of the virtual stick to test this. Dunno if xpadder does that.

Edited by evilC, 14 July 2013 - 03:08 AM.

[Jarl Dane]

The problem is I have a limited amount of buttons. Since I have no hand on my keyboard I only have half of my xbox 360 controller and my mouse. Losing the 4 buttons I use the D-pad for makes the entire endeavor unfeasible.
Also, for whatever reason, the D-pad is less sensitive than my analog and doesn't work as well at the subtle nuances of speed alterations.

And with the analog stick..the thing that really kills it for me is Throttle Decay. I could probably train myself to get used to it being in "reverse" mode. But its throttle decay is too different from my play style. I use a constant speed to set up precision aiming. Variable speeds that require constant attention is just too demanding for my skill-set.

[evilC]

I just did some testing with an xbox controller and it seems there is a pretty serious limitation.
The xbox controller has a circular aperture, meaning you cannot do a full turn at anything other than zero speed.
So definitely, you need relative throttle or to solve that problem a different way.

You could apply a sensitivity curve, but the throw is already short enough without losing extra range so that is non-ideal.

I did, however, get analog jumpjets working on the XBOX controller left trigger by using a macro to strobe space at various rates.

I may see if I can write a script to iron all these issues out.
As it stands, the problem seems to be:
Maths to optimally map a round range to a square one.
Map the physical absolute range to a virtual relative one.

The first of those, I don't know how to solve, the second I do.

[Jarl Dane]

evilC, on 14 July 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I just did some testing with an xbox controller and it seems there is a pretty serious limitation.

Yes. It is pretty unplayable at-the-moment.

I sent a message to MWO but all they said is joysticks are more or less unsupported at the moment and I am on my own. I wish there was a way to make it so that MWO didn't even register my controller as anything other than buttons that did nothing. Then my xpadder remapper would take care of the rest.

Edited by Mech The Dane, 14 July 2013 - 09:36 AM.

[Jarl Dane]

Loc Nor got my message. He never replied so he might not be interested.

Sigh. I just wanted to be able to use my controller again =/