84 replies to this topic

[Inkarnus]

Hello,

are you happy with the all assault matches in the true 12 man que?
got 6 matches mostly 10 assaults stuffed full with ppcs
like 4x732 4xStalker 2x DDC 2xscouts
wich is sad for a test server to think you have an enviroment
without any gain and ppl just boating like mad ppcs ...
instead of trying something out ).

My point:
It would be at the time to limit the amount of freewill
that somebody can have in the 12v12 gamemode!
With something like Tonnagelimit.

Well atleast i am sick of 8-12 PPC Stalker sit on there base
playing hide and seek and hope they have more tonnage than you.
Because ppl will do it if the mechanics will allow it.
I know its sad but its Human to always want to gain the more sharper edge.

The idea behind Tonnage classes :
To split the 12v12 que in an open form
were you could take all you want and a
12v12 with a Tonnagelimit of lets say
650 (its just a number i made up to have something to discuss)
2x100
2x75
4x50
4x25

With this value you need to field a mixed team not consisting
of all Stalker and Catafracts wich i would say are atm the highly competitive mechs.

With Tonnagelimit you actually need to incorporate Mediums !

This would lead to more brawls and more mobile play in my eyes and not the
blob of doom running around the map like it is now and will with 12v12 even more
letting win the guys boating with more tonnage!

For me i had alot of fun games in ISW(InnerSphereWars)
and 3025 stock tourney and we see if ppl
train for ISW its hell uva lot less tonnage and alot of fun if we clash
with our ISW build against theres accidently in Matchmaker!

But i can say we just dont like lamespider with 8 stalkers ...
This will continue until we got a limit set


I know i am just a man so i make this topic
to see your arguments and fix out flaws in it!

[Ralgas]

It's planned!! all assaults with a sprinkiling of lights out there was a perfect test of what they wanted to achieve, which was to test the stability of the netcode and framerate with all the extra activity

[Roger Wildcat]

Personally I think if we are going to have a tonnage limit then 720 tons total is the ideal number for 3 lances.

Let take two lances, 1 lances of Atlas and 1 lance of Locusts. A lance of Atlas is 400 tons and a lance of Locust is 80 tons. Add them together and it is 480 tons for two lances. Divide 480 by 8 mechs for an average of 60 tons. Multiply 60 by 12 and you get 720.

It would be an ideal way to make mediums a viable option and possible be the most common mech class in the game.

[Ralgas]

only hassle is you'll get people that say "but i won't compromise!!" and stick to their highlanders and atlai, screwing queue times.

that said, dropship mode!!

[jakucha]

Definitely support setting some sort of team limits on testing server.

[Wolf Ender]

i would support having more than one team tonnage limit in circulation. but something needs to bring weight class diversity to drops!

[Gaan Cathal]

Wolf Ender, on 12 July 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

i would support having more than one team tonnage limit in circulation. but something needs to bring weight class diversity to drops!

How about actually balancing the game so you can take something under 85t without screwing your team instead of forcing X number of players in a match to fight at a disadvantage?

[Inkarnus]

Gaan its about 12v12 Teamdrops not single ones


sry if i missed your point moar coffe i need

Edited by Inkarnus, 12 July 2013 - 04:27 AM.

[Wolf Ender]

Gaan Cathal, on 12 July 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

How about actually balancing the game so you can take something under 85t without screwing your team instead of forcing X number of players in a match to fight at a disadvantage?

uhhh...sure that sounds good too, but even that wouldn't negate the need for tonnage limits and weight class balance. when did making a suggestion become mutually exclusive to all other tweaks or improvements?

[Gaan Cathal]

Inkarnus, on 12 July 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Gaan its about 12v12 Teamdrops not single ones

I know. The game is inordinately weighted in favour of higher tonnage in teamplay as well as in pugging, probably because it's the same game just with prearranged teams.

Wolf Ender, on 12 July 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

uhhh...sure that sounds good too, but even that wouldn't negate the need for tonnage limits and weight class balance. when did making a suggestion become mutually exclusive to all other tweaks or improvements?

Because if they did implement tonnage limits then with only, say, 3 Assaults on a team, Assaults won't be dominating in team-play and there won't be half as much impetus to actually fix the fact that they're overly powerful because they'll think they "fixed" it with tonnage limits.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 12 July 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[Revorn]

i would support some Weightclass Matchmaking. If the enemy gets a Medium instead an Assault, for my Medium would be nice.

[Wolf Headhunter]

Gaan Cathal, on 12 July 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

How about actually balancing the game so you can take something under 85t without screwing your team instead of forcing X number of players in a match to fight at a disadvantage?

Maybe this is just pugs, but my highest kdr is almost 7.0 on a HBK-4P. I consistently have high damage, too - I don't just steal kills. How can you make a blanket statement that <85t = garbage? I've gotten 1100+ damage in a Cicada X-5. That has to help the team somehow.

[CeeKay Boques]

fckinSLAYER, on 12 July 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Maybe this is just pugs, but my highest kdr is almost 7.0 on a HBK-4P. I consistently have high damage, too - I don't just steal kills. How can you make a blanket statement that <85t = garbage? I've gotten 1100+ damage in a Cicada X-5. That has to help the team somehow.

Its Pugs. You can be a rocker in those mechs in an unorganized pug where people get stuck alone, or you can lead mechs into your private webs of poking. In unit vs unit, comms says "Target the Cicada" and now you're hightailing it or dying.

[Khobai]

Limiting the number of weight classes is a bad way to balance the game. People should play light and medium mechs because they want to, not because theyre forced to.

The solution here is to give lights and mediums more of a role in the game. Get rid of the horrible assault and conquest gamemodes and add a new gamemode where scouting/spotting/electronic warfare is actually important. And possibly add a mech repair bay so hit-and-run becomes much more viable... because right now light mechs without the ability to repair cant effectively hit and run. After the first attack run, if they dont die instantly, theyre stripped of armor all over and unable to continue fighting. If we had a domination gamemode with a proper ticket system then using your teams repair bay could cost your team reinforcement tickets... although not as many as if your mech was destroyed.

Edited by Khobai, 12 July 2013 - 02:14 PM.

[Inkarnus]

face it!  nobody would do it and even if you would make lights meds slighty better
the ppl would still take the nomnom builds and more tonnage since its means more firepower
and more protection!
PPL need limits and rulesets sadly but true looking at all the old mw leages.

Edited by Inkarnus, 12 July 2013 - 02:11 PM.

[Braggart]

tonnage limits are needed.

I also believe that people should be allowed to pilot whatever they want. Sooooooooooooooooooo, basically if everyone flocks to assaults, and they simply wont find games as quickly, but those that dont always pick the 100 tonner mechs, can find games easier.

BUT TO BE CLEAR. matchmaker will fail to find a game rather than throw in an unbalanced match.


It is quite simply, Most online games have limits. Not everyone gets the jet or chopper in Battlefield. Not everyone gets to pick their favorite class in Red orchestra. People need to learn to play within the limits of the game, but if you get 1 team all the tanks, and the other team infantry. Well thats why battlefield has limits, powerful units tend to be limited.

Edited by Braggart, 12 July 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 12 July 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

tonnage limits are needed.

I also believe that people should be allowed to pilot whatever they want. Sooooooooooooooooooo, basically if everyone flocks to assaults, and they simply wont find games as quickly, but those that dont always pick the 100 tonner mechs, can find games easier.

BUT TO BE CLEAR. matchmaker will fail to find a game rather than throw in an unbalanced match.


It is quite simply, Most online games have limits. Not everyone gets the jet or chopper in Battlefield. Not everyone gets to pick their favorite class in Red orchestra. People need to learn to play within the limits of the game, but if you get 1 team all the tanks, and the other team infantry. Well thats why battlefield has limits, powerful units tend to be limited.

The limits of the Game are from 20-100T.

[Khobai]

forcing people to play a light mech is not the same thing as making people want to play one. Adding tonnage limits doesnt fix light mechs and it would just make the queue times way longer as everyone would have to wait on light mech pilots. Again, we need to fix the reason why light mechs arnt used.... not force people to use light mechs when they dont want to play them. When light mechs and assault mechs were roughly balanced with eachother last october, you saw a good mix of all weight classes in every match. Game needs to go back to last october because thats when it was actually fun.

Edited by Khobai, 12 July 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Braggart]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

The limits of the Game are from 20-100T.

seriously....................................................... That is all you got. Thats like saying the limits of the game is 8vs8 or 12vs12. Take a hike if you have nothing.

Khobai, on 12 July 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

tonnage limits arnt need. forcing people to play a mech is not the same thing as making them want to play it.

incorrect.


This game is based on battletech, and it is a game based on limits. Which was battle value, heavier mechs always had higher BV than lighter mechs, and partially based on armaments.

So in TT I could take 2 centurions, to fight 1 Highlander, because BVs were basically equal. Now that we are in MWO, PGI did nothing to make a centurion equal to a highlander. Since no balancing was done to make mediums or lights equal to the others, then obviously the only answer is a tonnage limit or battle value limit.

Now, some people might say a centurion shouldnt be equal to a Highlander, I would agree if it werent for the matchmaking causing someone in a centurion to fight a highlander.

The game mechanics also favor heavier mechs because they can pile on more weapons that are pinpoint accurate and decimate a lighter mech. While in table top, a locations are rolled, so you couldnt drop a cent 2 volleys from a highlander, unless you were really really impossibly lucky. Now here is where skill counts, and when a game is based on skill, it needs to be a game also balanced so that both teams are equal.

Tonnage limits or Battle value are a requirement to balance this game if PGI doesnt want to buff the medium class.

Quite simple really. PGI transferred over a ton of Table top values, and left others completely out, which were critical to balancing this game. That is Tonnage, or battle value.

Edited by Braggart, 12 July 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 12 July 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

seriously....................................................... That is all you got. Thats like saying the limits of the game is 8vs8 or 12vs12. Take a hike if you have nothing.

On the contrary. You wanna play a futuristic war game but don't want to abide by the rules of combat. Rule #1 Combat Isn't Fair! I have never heard so much whining in my life. I choose to drop with with 7 or 11 other players who do not coordinate before a drop and I expect the game to make the drop even. Its random. I have been hearing this tripe for a year and I still don't get it. If I get my butt kicked cause my opponent was better equipped, or just plain better, I dust myself off, pick myself up and hit drop again. I know who the better team was, Maybe this time I will be on the stomping side!, 60% of the time I am on the winning team either As a Lawman or as a PUG. That is good enough for me.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 July 2013 - 02:38 PM.