184 replies to this topic

[Dazzer]

I think people dont like to guard the base because the main way to score cbills to doing damage to the other side and if you are the base guard you are missing out.

[Ax2Grind]

Yet another post about capping being bad? Please, capping is one of the objectives and helps to focus play. If your games end in caps all the time it means one or both of the teams is not being mindful of this Objective. Play to win, and be mindful of the map. Capping is not ruining the game. Its part of the game.

Yes, it would be great to have new game modes, and yes, they don't have to have Cap be part of them, but there is no reason to kill the current game modes or take away capping. I suggest you learn to play the maps better, stop heading off in ludicrous wide flanks that leave your base wide open while taking forever to get to the enemy, and do a better job of controlling your third of the map. You controlling your third of the map will always equal more fighting, even if it means that you have insured you will not be capped and then move forward with a clear assault. If I can get my assault to your cap without a fight, then you made a major mistake.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Haven't read the ENTIRE thread - so forgive me if this response has been posted already. The issue isn't capping - players should learn to response. The issue is LACK OF CBILLS and XP for scouting. When lights get both, you'll see a dramatic increase in that role.

[Brother Helmer]

Vote to change capping in assault games. It's become a game of "who can rush to the enemy base and cap" and both sides are doing it constantly.

They need to make capping work differently, it's getting really old to go in and have games end so fast on account of capping. And with the low level of team play that is in already, the "learn to defend" routine is getting just as old.

[Planet Roq]

Brother Helmer, on 26 August 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

Vote to change capping in assault games. It's become a game of "who can rush to the enemy base and cap" and both sides are doing it constantly.

They need to make capping work differently, it's getting really old to go in and have games end so fast on account of capping. And with the low level of team play that is in already, the "learn to defend" routine is getting just as old.

its getting old because you're not learning to play. Don't cry about it in the game, dc if it really bothers you and you should take it up to PGI if you haven't already. Be a good player and play or don't play. Join a guild and don't play PUGs. Don't be a noob.

[thefinn]

There should - simply put - be a "capture the middle" map type.
Whether the middle is a facility, a downed dropship, whatever...

No 2 bases, just an objective both teams need in order to win.

Another: Defence maps - One side has a point to defend, the other must capture it.

Having 2 bases on a map means the 150kph mech that decides he'll get to the enemy base around the same time as the 60kph atlas is about half a map away has the advantage. And frankly once you're in a fight half way up the map, you really cannot be arsed trying to turn around and take the 5 minute trip back.

Also having ECM the way it is, means you can easily just pass in the night and waste 10-15 minutes playing a game that wasn't a game at all.

It is totally ridiculous for these maps to be the size of counterstrike but sit there and pretend that there's some great strategic value to them. You want to put out a map that enables 100 mechs, and 50 points of contention ? FINE then we can discuss the strategic advantages to capping.
(This isn't 1995 anymore).

Make the ******* maps people want to pit mech against mech on and be done with it.

I'm not saying don't keep assault as is - but we need MORE game modes for people that don't want to be bothered by this {Scrap}.

As people seem inclined to consider this a roleplaying game still:
It's ridiculous that we cannot CHOOSE the map. Why would any mechwarrior take out a mech that's inclined to overheat and runs on PPC's and Lasers when the ambient temperature outside is 95C ? Why do we not know where the **** we're going in advance and plan for it ?

As another aside:
I really am not sure what is up with these particular developers - first it was ECM, there's STILL hitbox issues, now they cannot understand why people don't want to play these maps - but every time they seem hellbent on advantaging 20tonne mechs. I don't get it. Perhaps it just works out that way ?

However, the players know what's up because every game I get into has at LEAST 3-4 light mechs - which is 1/3rd of the mechs out of 4 weight classes.

The game screen looks more like I connected to a shopping network than a game, any other FPS doesn't need to advertise right on the main game page like that. They usually have the good grace to seperate the shop, planetside has a button, dota has a button for it, warframe has the market, but mechwarrior ? No no. you have to check the specials while you're checking out your mechs, in fact it takes up 80% of the screen. More sales that way right ?

Seriously devs:
Fix.
This.
****.

---

Why is it that every game with Mechwarrior printed on it is since the 90's done on the cheap and is never AAA quality??

Edited by thefinn, 22 September 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Livewyr]

I did an experiment yesterday morning.

I decided to stay back and defend my base. It's a double edged sword:

What happened most of the time:
Nobody came for our base and I was an ***hole for sitting out of the fight. (And comically, the reason for our total loss in the end, even when in my 15 seconds of glory taking on the entire enemy team I got a kill, and more damage than 75% of my failed team.)

Defending your base is apparently a bad thing to. (According to the forum heroes, there is 1thing you're supposed to do. Charge enemy and fight like a moron.)

What happened sometimes:
Enemy light would step onto base.
My team would erupt into internal panic and external insults demanding that the light mechs go back.
I'd power up.. and the light would be cored through a rear side torso and killed and I'd tell my team "I got it." (before moving onto the fight)
Usually I would recieve "cool!"
Sometimes I would get, "way to go, camper"

So I think from now on my response to the people who simply cannot stand for someone to do something outside the "charge-fight-die" meta is going to be a simple: "You're dumb, and you're done."

[Fut]

thefinn, on 22 September 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

There should - simply put - be a "capture the middle" map type.
Whether the middle is a facility, a downed dropship, whatever...

No 2 bases, just an objective both teams need in order to win.

^^ This would be a great mode to play.

[Xmith]

I was wondering if anyone pays any attention to ELO. If they did, no one would complain about cappers winning the game for the other team. W/L is the thing that counts not K/D. I have lost matches where the only thing my team wanted to do is kill, kill, kill and lose by cap. Now that sucks. Especially if it is only 1 eneny mech left and 9 on my team.

[Kreytose]

Simple answer, we need a new type of PVP, no bases, just 2 starting locations, simple rules: Last team standing,.... wins.

[Spawnsalot]

Xmith, on 24 September 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I was wondering if anyone pays any attention to ELO. If they did, no one would complain about cappers winning the game for the other team. W/L is the thing that counts not K/D. I have lost matches where the only thing my team wanted to do is kill, kill, kill and lose by cap. Now that sucks. Especially if it is only 1 eneny mech left and 9 on my team.

That's pretty much the whole issue right there Xmith: players who care (too much?) about their ELO score and want to raise it as high as possible because that's somehow better are doing anything they can to secure a win including quick base caps etc.

These players are at odds with other players who may not care quite so much about their ELO and are playing a match to shoot robots with lasers and have fun making things explode.

Their time to do that is being cut short by quick capping in the middle of a good fight.

As far as I'm concerned my ELO will sort itself out to put me up against challenging opponents - I'm just here to fight hard and often, I don't care that much about a win or loss as long as I've had a good, engaging scrap against a challenging opponent(s).

[MortVent]

ELO isn't that important to many... it's win/loss.

Take a support pilot like me, I'm going to die a lot because my team in pugs will leave me to die or fail to respond to flankers... (or not follow up on kills when a mech moves behind cover breaking lock and radar tracking... it's over there ya fools, go get him)

[Jestun]

Spawnsalot, on 24 September 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

That's pretty much the whole issue right there Xmith: players who care (too much?) about their ELO score and want to raise it as high as possible because that's somehow better are doing anything they can to secure a win including quick base caps etc.

These players are at odds with other players who may not care quite so much about their ELO and are playing a match to shoot robots with lasers and have fun making things explode.

Their time to do that is being cut short by quick capping in the middle of a good fight.

As far as I'm concerned my ELO will sort itself out to put me up against challenging opponents - I'm just here to fight hard and often, I don't care that much about a win or loss as long as I've had a good, engaging scrap against a challenging opponent(s).

if you don't care about the result and just want to see lasers and explosions then I would suggest the training grounds. But if you want a challenging opponent then ELO matters and you shouldn't complain about people caring about it.

[Spawnsalot]

The whole point of ELO is that it puts you up against more evenly matched opponents isn't it? No?

I wasn't complaining about people who care a lot about their ELO (here), I was merely picking up on a point Xmith made.

And pardon me for having the sheer gall to play a *video game* for fun, I had no idea it was such serious business.

[Jestun]

If you want challenging matches you need to win enough to raise / maintain your ELO.

I have no issue with people playing for fun, as long as they don't complain that people are actually completing the objectives given for the match.

[Livewyr]

Logoth, on 24 September 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Simple answer, we need a new type of PVP, no bases, just 2 starting locations, simple rules: Last team standing,.... wins.

Short-sighted:

I volunteer to be *that* spider that shuts down in a place you can't get to, to grab a drink and maybe a snack. (Because I have a right to refuse playing a part of the game I don't like.)

[KhanCipher]

capping is the byproduct of how LoS, the capping mechanic, and ELO work in MWO...

personally, any light mechs that do a cap rush in pugs usually do it because they want to stat pad their ELO ranking that nobody can even see...

[TB Freelancer]

LobsterPete, on 12 July 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I run my ECM spider for the vast majority of my games and get a kick out of the scouting aspect of the game (what little there is left). I'm also a 100% pugger.

So yesterday I drop on caustic. I see my team heading right, so I go left in to make sure we don't miss the other team heading to our base. I'm running around, don't see anything on radar or on seismic until I get over by the edge of the map. The whole other team is hugging the map heading to our base. So I type out "Lots of contacts in G1 next to map edge heading to our base". Well I see my team pretty much ignoring me and setting up camp around the crater.

So I pop my UAV thinking, this will get my team's attention. Nah, I had all 8 mechs of the other team walk from one side of my UAV range to the other. Actually one person did come back to help, but 3 others decided to go cap the other base in their assaults and while 3 more pitched tents in the crater.

It all ended up as expected. The guy that came back to help got hit by about 10 ppcs as the other team slowly made our way to our base. I had a lack of judgement and thought, well I can stop them from capping and maybe our guys can cap first if they wanna play that way. I didn't make 50 feet before getting my leg one shotted off.

So after the game, comes all the rage, "you cappers suck", "come out and fight losers", etc. This is when I facepalm. Come on people, you knew exactly where they are and where they are going but decided you didn't want anything to do with them. I guess there are just people that don't want to do anything but meet in the middle of the map. If the other team has a plan and get to the base, good win for them.

I can think of precious few matches out of the hundreds of caps I've seen that weren't entirely preventable, the vast majority of the time a scout warns the team, or all the warning signs were there i.e. no contacts in the usually lemming routes.

The most recent cap loss involving the most ******** team I've had in a while was in River City. We start at the base on B4, and one of the guys very early on says "Their main group is going lower" just after some guy made a comment about going upper and how the high ground wins. So half the team goes upper and inside a minute the fast movers are already at our base harrasing the few who stayed on base to defend. The moron who made the high ground comment says "Don't bother going back, we've got guys dealing with it" even though its plain to see the entire enemy team is pushing base.

Not more than 30 seconds after this genius says that in chat, we're down 6, the entire enemy team is on the base and they've got the cap while half the team just stood by and watched it all happen....

...then the QQ'ing about capping started coming out.

The anti-cap crowd says they wanna fight, but then do everything they can to avoid one if it doesn't happen in the middle of the map. What they need PGI can't provide, because PGI isn't in the mental health profession.

[Jakob Knight]

Let's be honest here. Back when a single light mech could cap a base reasonably well, a team had to seriously consider defense as well as offense, or they often got their hats handed to them for being too stupid. In those days, light mechs mattered as much as assaults because the goal of taking a base was just as possible as killing the enemy.

However, because so many players were incapable of using their brains and just wanted a mindless brawl, the devs decided to increase the time it takes to cap so much that the only way to get a cap victory now is to be up against a team truely without a brain. Even an Atlas has time to trudge back and take care of a lone capper, and so heavies and assaults became more valuable than lights and the players who couldn't figure out where their feet were pointing felt the game got better because they also didn't have to think about defense anymore.

If anyone is seriously still having problems with capping, they need to figure out why they are playing this game, because it is obviously above their mental ability. Either they aren't bothering to stop a cap in progress, or they have left so many enemies get past them that they deserve to lose. The elimination of defense as a serious consideration has so dumbed down the game as to make any complaint about this kind of victory proof of an inability to have a valid opinion on the subject.

Case closed.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 25 September 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Spawnsalot, on 24 September 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

That's pretty much the whole issue right there Xmith: players who care (too much?) about their ELO score and want to raise it as high as possible because that's somehow better are doing anything they can to secure a win including quick base caps etc.

These players are at odds with other players who may not care quite so much about their ELO and are playing a match to shoot robots with lasers and have fun making things explode.

Their time to do that is being cut short by quick capping in the middle of a good fight.

As far as I'm concerned my ELO will sort itself out to put me up against challenging opponents - I'm just here to fight hard and often, I don't care that much about a win or loss as long as I've had a good, engaging scrap against a challenging opponent(s).

The fail point in this logic is that Base Capping was happening long before Elo came on scene. Some folks like to run to the middle and fight. Some want to see if they can sneak past the enemy and steal their stuff with not a shot fired. Both are acceptable wins. Some who lose to either methods cry like a lil girl. Old saying, 'There is more than one way to skin a cat.' Accept this and move on.