184 replies to this topic

[Mira Widowmaker]

VoidByte, on 01 August 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

So act like me: Kill the cappers of your own team if they start to cap. And then you write them "Hey! Thats how i play and the rules allow me to do so, dont cry little baby".

But the rules don't allow you to do it. That's the difference.

http://mwomercs.com/...ploitsgriefing/

[Mystere]

Many people don't realize that they are missing out on some of the most intense, frantic, and desperate battles that can occur in MWO. And all it takes to experience it is for one team to try to defend their base.

[Khobai]

PGI just needs to do the bare minimum to fix the two gamemodes we have:

Fix Assault. Change capping so it works as intended... a secondary means to win the game to avoid having to chase lights around. You should not be able to cap the enemy base until a condition is met... either X minutes have passed, or X enemy mechs have been destroyed, or X defensive turrets have been destroyed, etc...

Fix Conquest so fast mechs dont completely dominate it. Give +50 resources to a team whenever they kill an enemy mech. Because currently, you can kill like 5-6 of the enemy mechs and still lose because they have 2-3 lights running around while your team has no lights to chase them down. Killing enemy mechs needs to matter way more in conquest.

Additionally PGI needs to work on a third gamemode, like domination, and focus on making that gamemode as fun as possible to make up for the fact their other two gamemodes are lacking.

Quote

Ask yourselves what you as a player can do to prevent loss by base capping.

There is nothing you can do really. If you try to defend your base by yourself youll just get killed by multiple enemy mechs. You cant make the rest of your team do what you want in a PUG. And if youve found some magical way to control pugs then by all means tell the rest of us because id really like to know.

Edited by Khobai, 05 August 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[Mira Widowmaker]

Khobai, on 05 August 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Because currently, you can kill like 5-6 of the enemy mechs and still lose because they have 2-3 lights running around while your team has no lights to chase them down. Killing enemy mechs needs to matter way more in conquest.

Sounds to me, as if the team did not realize capping the points is important fast enough. I often see teams in conquest sticking together to annihalte any opposition they meet and then being surprised, that they lose to being outcapped.
SURPRISE! This strategy works only if killing the enemies is the main objective, but it is not in conquest.
In conquest you have to watch the resources timer and decide to split up at the right time.
Hunting down three assaults/heavies and annihalting them with 8-man firepower might just be the sacrifice the enemy needed to win the map. So it may be on purpose that you just met those 3 assaults/heavies who make a stand, so that you ignore the capping points and give their team the advantage they need.
It is one of my prefered tactics when being in a slow big mech in conquest. Focusing fire on light mechs (if I can) and distracting as many enemy mechs as possible, so that our light mechs can do their work (and I hate it when they do not do their capping job.... when I try to sacrifice myself to give them time).

[Shakespeare]

That's what actually makes conquest so interesting - the differing intentions and strategies of a given team. I've done conquests, especially in small maps, where we only used cap points as a means to force conflict, and others where we've used a brawl to keep teams distracted while capping.

It's way more interesting in the 8-man conquest queue, because you CAN win both ways, and outhinking and outmaneuvering is actually a thing.

[MarauderAlphaTango]

what would solve some of the complaints with the capping system is a weight balance for both sides. How many times have I been in a conquest game and not had any lights, or been facing 6-7 assault class mechs in an assault match. Not having equal weight limits really forces capping or not depending on the game mode.

[SumoRex]

Tyranum, on 30 July 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

What I hate is waiting for the match to start, getting halfway across the map, in my Atlas, haven't fired a shot yet, and hearing "Base is under attack"...

This isn't an attack on you Tyranium buddy. I just have a different opinion and used your post to illustrate why. (Sorry)

Consider what light mechs have in abundance. *Speed*. Yet alone, a light mech doesnt have the firepower to beat even a half assed defence, therefore maybe the answer is to not go halfway across the map? Stay within striking distance of your base. Most of the time I find it's the fact that "assault class" pilots stray WAY too far into the middle of the map.

(EDIT: Actually, I just realised, THIS is why I hate Terra Therma, it actually encourages mechs to go to the middle and over extend from their base. It's a *TERRIBLE* map for PUGs and easily exploitable by proper teamwork. It would be better if there was a quick/direct route back to base, but there isn't. It's a badly designed map, which ironically supports the argument against capping tbh)

Tyranum, on 30 July 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

PLEASE implement an alternate game mode for those of us who've spent a ton of money in mechs on this free game so we could fight...not just chase Jenners around our base.

You could maybe try spending some cash on a Jenner, and chase the Jenner? Its actually a lot of fun.
This game *isn't* all about the big mechs and the face to face brawling. It's a game with tactics. Light mechs use their advantage, *speed*, to counter the awesome firepower/armour of the Assaults.

Everyone seems to want PGI to *change the game* (as they have no control over it) to suit their particular way of playing, rather than adjusting their own tactics to suit the environment. (which they have *all* the control over)

*Sigh*

[SumoRex]

cdlord, on 05 August 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Lost to a cap this weekend. It was our fault for not defending. We had them on the ropes. We were winning by the numbers. We were too far from our base to respond. We lost.

Kudos to the cappers for pulling victory out of certain defeat.

...and Kudos to you for understanding the reason *why* you lost, and for acknowledging the opposition on pulling it out of the bag. (Not condescending there, even if it sounds like it! I'm being genuine.) That's the nature of the game. Good tactics.

[MeiSooHaityu]

A small story...

On Tourmaline our team skirted the edge of the dropship (or the Stargate as I like to call it), and when we looked at the center of the map (at the Stargate), the enemy team was no where to be found. We got worried that they were making a run to our base and ran to their base and started capping.

All of a sudden, on general chat, they are flaming us for capping. We looked for them (at least briefly), but didn't see them so we went to their base.

We ended up cap winning, although despite them trying to call us out, they were starting to cap our base too . They were pissed.

Don't blame cappers because your lame flanking manuver (intended to keep you hidden), resulted in you loosing. If you have enough tactics to organize a flanking manuver, try being aware enough to watch the movements of the other team. Poor tactics and dumb luck is not our fault, you screwed up...deal with it

TL;DR Point:
Basically, I don't get upset at base capping. I only get upset when my team ignores the fact that it is happening and then feels it necessary to go crazy and blame cappers when we loose

[BillyM]

The new cap rate has helped considerably. I see far less anger at cap-warriors, and far fewer cap races (because there is time to do something about it now). Good job PGI, this has made both game modes better and more full of good brawls.

Cheers!

--billyM

[Navy Sixes]

Swamp Monster, on 12 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

More than 50% of matches now, end in a cap victory.

What weight-class of mech are you driving? What's your top speed?*

*I really don't think I need to ask, just trying to be polite.

[Ozric]

Lights are really strong right now, not just spiders, and we should not be surprised that more of them are on the field and capping everything they can see. 12vs12 has changed the capping game somewhat, but perhaps inevitably the games are running quite differently from the test server and fewer people are keeping an eye on the base in pugs than I was hoping for. And your quite right, when a pack of lights decides to ninja cap there's very little you can do about it.

There are some good suggestions in the posts above that would help a lot, and in general the simplest solutions tend to be the best. Capping on assault only being available after certain conditions are met (time passed/enemy mechs destroyed) seems like a very elegant (and easy to code) solution to me.

[arghmace]

BillyM, on 22 August 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

The new cap rate has helped considerably. I see far less anger at cap-warriors, and far fewer cap races (because there is time to do something about it now). Good job PGI, this has made both game modes better and more full of good brawls.

The slower cap speed is now spot on in assault, I think. But in conquest it's too slow. Used to be too fast so something in between would do. Actually conquest battles now end in cap win more often since if the other team gets caps at the start, you can't get them back. It takes ages to turn a cap yellow and then blue. And it's boring as heck to sit in a cap zone for minutes on end...

Edited by arghmace, 24 August 2013 - 02:21 AM.

[KharnZor]

Swamp Monster, on 12 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

More than 50% of matches now, end in a cap victory.

No they don't. Btw, have a look at my sig.

[BillyM]

arghmace, on 24 August 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

The slower cap speed is now spot on in assault, I think. But in conquest it's too slow. Used to be too fast so something in between would do. Actually conquest battles now end in cap win more often since if the other team gets caps at the start, you can't get them back. It takes ages to turn a cap yellow and then blue. And it's boring as heck to sit in a cap zone for minutes on end...

I have suggested a 1.5-2x speed in "de-capping" a base to aid your second point.

...as for your last point. Boring to cap? Good! Make it a hard choice!

--billyM

[arghmace]

BillyM, on 24 August 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

...as for your last point. Boring to cap? Good! Make it a hard choice!

In conquest it's not a choice, it's mandatory. At least a couple of players of each team are forced to just drive around caps and sit on them for ages since capping is now so slow. That's not fun game design.

[Neozero]

I love how people complain about how 15 mins is too long to be in a match. I guess no one remembers the old days of MW games when people could literally circle a map for half an hour and still not have significant engagement. While I concede the point that the bases do serve a function I think with the advent of the conquest game type the community should also have a death match game type without a base where 12 mechs face 12 mechs in a straight up fight.

Take out the bases and people will stop running to opposite ends of the map and capping when they have no contact, they will turn and go to scouting. I know many others feel at this point we should have more then just assault/conquest especially since assault was described as a place holder in closed beta simply to test combat mechanics of the game never intended to be a core gametype in MWO. It is nice how so much of what PGI has told us has fallen thru the cracks, and 3PV is simply just the latest hot button issue we have to deal with now.

[Hammerhai]

And then there were the guys yesterday who started capping first - and since we happened to be 3 in the vicinity of their base - we showed em how to cap for real.
Their tears were delicious, esp since we were 2 mechs down at the time

[iHover]

I dont think that the problem is the games capping mechanic. I would say it breaks down to team attitude, just not bothering to send anyone back to the cap . And team weight / speed. In a well balanced drop you would have lights and med. Mechs to respond. I've been in plenty of matches where someone steped on the cap and our lights didn’t even bother to check. I do think that one small change might be helpful and make sense , capping mechs should show up on radar. After all they are sitting on your base, the idea that you would be getting some kind of intell from that isnt to far out their.

[Hammerhai]

And Neozero: People will NOT magically start scouting, not in PUGs for sure. They will go to F5 or E4 and wait. That is what they want to do. Period. Mostly, it is the Lights who have ANY affinity for scouting. Which gets them MINIMAL reward.

Was a time when Light hatred was a lot more outspoken, back in CB.
Get this: It is his JOB to irritate. That was what harassing actually means. Drive you to distraction. To do that he uses speed, cover and maneuver. Deal with it. This is as old as warfare