184 replies to this topic

[OznerpaG]

the bases should NOT appear until 1 side loses half their mechs, at which point each base would appear as far away from the enemy mechs and each other as possible. this would force engagement, then if 1 side is getting blown out then they'd have an opportunity to still win if they can disengage and cap the enemy base

[TheCrazySteve]

Base cap rewards those players who posses more strategy than what is usually shown by 5 year olds playing soccer.

Next time you lose to it, remember instead of running around with 4 other guys trying to get that last kill, one or two of your could have returned to prevent it. It really doesn't take too much in terms of brain power to see that your team is up 5-2, and that you only have line of sight on one mech.... wonder where the other one went...

As for those games where nobody dies, well at least it didn't take long, stop complaining and hit launch again. If you don't like those games, try to influence your team by not swinging all the way out to the edge of the map. Or gasp, don't just go off in a pre-set direction, allow your forward mechs to dictate where the main body heads.

It literally takes both teams not searching for a fight to have a non-death basecap race. For example, caustic valley and river city are two common areas where this type of basecap happens, and its only because each team just runs counter-clockwise around the map with no regard to intel. In fact I am glad there is basecap in these situations otherwise the team deathmatch crowd would just keep running counter-clockwise until the timer runs out.

[Obadiah333]

Huh. You could try defending your base or something instead of running off headlong to "blow up the enemy with my death machine!"

[Shakespeare]

Capping is only a problem because PUG matches are too random in their player selection. No guarantee of having lights, mediums, no lobby phase to communicate a plan before drop, no voice comms for half the team at least, no advance warning of map or map type for player mech selection.
You can't count on anything but yourself, and maybe your 4-man (if applicable), when you PUG - which also means that if you are not in an RTB mech, there's no guarantee that ANYONE will be, or will do it.
Role warfare would improve if chassis distribution on a team was a little more predictable. I don't need a 1 for 1, but you can't expect a team to react effectively to a given strategy if the matchmaker has constructed a whole squad of one style of mechs.
So capping, as an element of the game, doesn't bother me, exactly. Cap-rush teams, playing in 4's - that bothers me, because they're basically exploiting the matchmaker's inability to provide effective opponents to counter it (the majority of the time)- which means the most effective strategy to resist capping then becomes camping on/near base.
And if everyone does THAT, we come full circle and get really ****** matches.

Don't end capping. End un-managed team composition.

[CDLord HHGD]

QQers are ruining the game! I put emphasis on that for you so you know how to spell it in the future.

[Steel Scout]

I think a great way to keep the benefits of capping while still encouraging battle would be to not allow the cap mode to be activated until at least 3-4 mechs have been killed first. Games that end with little to no combat and just a cap are very boring and a waste of time.

[Voivode]

Getting capped out is the consequence you suffer for a team that's too fat to move quick.

[Hellcat420]

Dirus Nigh, on 14 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Players who do not understand that bases need defending are ruining the game.

Dirus Nigh, on 14 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Players who do not understand that bases need defending are ruining the game.

[Shakespeare]

Voivode, on 24 July 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Getting capped out is the consequence you suffer for a team that's too fat to move quick.

Ahh, but no one player has any control over team composition. You phrase it as though players should 'know better' than to bring heavy, slow mechs, but they didn't choose to drop with each other in a PUG. That's part of the reason some matches can go lopsided very quickly even with teams of comparable skill levels.

I cap, and my team caps, when it's possible and likely to sway the game in our favor, but lets not pretend that every cap loss is a tactical failure or unforced error. You play the hand you're dealt, and the dealer can be an ******** sometimes.

Edited by Shakespeare, 24 July 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[Voivode]

Shakespeare, on 24 July 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Ahh, but no one player has any control over team composition. You phrase it as though players should 'know better' than to bring heavy, slow mechs, but they didn't choose to drop with each other in a PUG. That's part of the reason some matches can go lopsided very quickly even with teams of comparable skill levels.

I cap, and my team caps, when it's possible and likely to sway the game in our favor, but lets not pretend that every cap loss is a tactical failure or unforced error. You play the hand you're dealt, and the dealer can be an ******** sometimes.

True enough, but the trend of people running heavy is clear, that's why the odds are in favor of one of the PUG teams being too heavy to respond to a cap. If people are upset about it, run lights and mediums more often so you can run back in time to punish the person doing it. I do have to say that the time it takes to cap should scale with a map. Alpine should take significantly longer than any other map, and Tourmaline should have a small increase in the time it takes as well.

[Shakespeare]

You seem a reasonable sort. I can agree with your suggestions.
Guess I'll need to work on my centurions!




EDIT: Oh, and for those paying attention, those last 5 or 6 posts above? That's what actual discussions look like. Doomsayers, ultimatums, and feces-throwers do not do this community any good.

Edited by Shakespeare, 24 July 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[xCico]

Actually when u drive a light mech its somehow fun to annoy people, its in human nature

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

They need to implement World of Tank's capping rules where a cap meter slowly reverts to full when no longer occupied by enemies, and shooting a capping enemy resets the cap bar by a fixed amount. Having to walk all the way to the cap square is unrealistic, in the real world you'd just shoot them from range.

[hammerreborn]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 24 July 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

They need to implement World of Tank's capping rules where a cap meter slowly reverts to full when no longer occupied by enemies, and shooting a capping enemy resets the cap bar by a fixed amount. Having to walk all the way to the cap square is unrealistic, in the real world you'd just shoot them from range.

How is shooting a ppc in my general direction somehow stopping my capture "realistic?"

If I was in your house stealing your ****, and you fired (even if you hit me but not enough to kill in any way) from the mall a mile away...I still have tons of time to put your **** in my truck and take off, not have it magically fly out of my truck and back into your house.

Edited by hammerreborn, 24 July 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

defend yur base.

[Thorqemada]

While some matches be won by capping base rushing is maybe 1% of all matches which is imho a good number.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Frisk, on 12 July 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Here is a novel idea:
DEFENSE

For those who really want to win the match, then yes.


For those who could not give a damn and just want to play 'ze game. Go out and kill while your base gets capped out. You'll end up earning more money and XP than those who did nothing but cap, interestingly. Plus it lowers your ELO for easier matches!

Win/win in my book. Let them cap you.

[Dirus Nigh]

Voivode, on 24 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

True enough, but the trend of people running heavy is clear, that's why the odds are in favor of one of the PUG teams being too heavy to respond to a cap. If people are upset about it, run lights and mediums more often so you can run back in time to punish the person doing it. I do have to say that the time it takes to cap should scale with a map. Alpine should take significantly longer than any other map, and Tourmaline should have a small increase in the time it takes as well.

Its true that a pug player has no control over what type of mechs other people will be using. However that is not the issue.

Weapons dictate tactics. Players need to learn to adjust their tactics with the type of mechs on their team. If you have no lights or quick mediums, dont run all of your assaults out to the middle of the map. Move forward to a point that is easy to fall back to base from. Send the heavies out to screen a little farther out, or cover the flanks.

You could also have one heavy stay at the half way point between the main force and the base. that way it can react quickly if a light or medium gets through. They could buy time while another player comes to help, or quickly rejoin the main force if the enemy is killed or chased off.

Essentially a team that is stacked towards heavies and assaults is better suited to use defensive tactics.

Teams that do have a pair of lights and or mediums can afford to send their heavies and assaults out to meat the enemy near the center of the map. The lighter mechs can get around the other teams main body and get to the base. They can also respond in a timely manner at longer distances.

Granted these are very general scenarios. It is up to the players to see what classes their team is made of, then suggest a plan that will work with what they have.

[Zerberus]

Anybody else noticed lately that the same players that complain about being "stuck in Elo Hell" are usually also the ones complaining about capping, and about getting "put in with the scrubs"

"My I`m in Elo hell, I cant get out"
"Then play to win, not to blob"
"Meh, that`s no fun"

2 days later....

"Capping sucks, I always lose to cap""
"Then play to win, not to blob"
"Meh, I`m not fast enough"

2 Days later....

"Elo sucks, I keep getting put in with teh scrubs and have a 5000:1 K/D ratio"
"Maybe you should have tried to win instead of blobbing, as recommended in your past 2 threads?"
"Meh, I`m an awesome player, I just don`t win matches becasue I get put in with the scrubs, get capped constantly, and I`m in Elo Hell anyway"

*facepalm*

You people do understand that "meh, (xxx)" is the entire reason that you`re "stuck in Elo Hell", right? You`re refusing to play better, instead of trying to win at all costs...Winning = Elo goes up

[Jman5]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 24 July 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

They need to implement World of Tank's capping rules where a cap meter slowly reverts to full when no longer occupied by enemies

I wouldn't be against this, but I don't agree with your second suggestion.