54 replies to this topic

[CyboNinja]

Most of us CHOOSE to play Assault because we want to fight. All these jerks do is cap as fast as they can and run away if they see anyone. Its really ruining this game for myself and a lot of people. Maybe if they ever finish they can have like lobbies and stuff where we can choose to play without light mechs. Or is any kind of finished version of this just a hopeless fantasy never to be fulfilled?

Edited by Cybo, 13 July 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

I'll be honest. It's been a while since I've seen one of these threads.

I didn't miss them.

[One Medic Army]

The only time it annoys me is when we have a nice fight going on, can go either way, and someone in a light mech runs off and ends the game.

I can see doing it to split enemies away, I can see doing it to pull out a win from defeat, but it's just a bit aggravating when I see people that have the option of victory through combat capping out.

I'm not talking about capping because some sniper team is sitting behind a ridge and refuses to move, I'm talking about when you see a pair of lights go straight for the cap at match start and try to cap out before anyone can even get back to defend.

[edit]
The other half of the problem is how 90% of players refuse to actually go back to stop the cap.
I can't believe how often I'll have to trudge back to base in a 64.9kph Cataphract 4X to block cap because all the mediums, lights, and faster heavies are too busy.

Edited by One Medic Army, 13 July 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

One Medic Army, on 13 July 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

[edit]
The other half of the problem is how 90% of players refuse to actually go back to stop the cap.
I can't believe how often I'll have to trudge back to base in a 64.9kph Cataphract 4X to block cap because all the mediums, lights, and faster heavies are too busy.

This IS the problem. Base rushes only work on terrible teams. If you got base capped then it is because you have committed a rather serious error and need to reflect on what you have done wrong.

[Biglead]

I respect your opinions, but sorry; Fun, Honor and Respect don't buy Battlemechs...Cbills do. Everyone has been in the situation where you are 8 assaults deep in the center of the map only to realize there are two enemy Spiders back at your base. I hate it, but it's legitimate and the counter to an "All Assault" front line.

Mechwarrior "Mercs" online not Gentlemans duel online. (Excluding Clan behavior)

Also, creating a poll because people are having fun their way and not yours is boolshet.


Edit: Autocorrect kills me...

Edited by Biglead, 13 July 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[Deathlike]

If the poll itself was actually constructed poorly, I'd check both No responses.

If people don't want to respond to a base cap, that is really not my problem.

Occasionally, I like to yell at our base capper to stop capping, so that others can clean up (because the team would be ahead, and would not want to lose out on what eventually amounts to free XP).

The problem IMO is that people don't really know how to handle base capping... figuring out the signs... and acting on it. There is more to scouting than just spotting mechs... it's knowing what to do with that info to give the team that best chance to succeed. Unfortunately this isn't rewarded, but that's besides the point.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 July 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Cybo, on 13 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Most of us CHOOSE to play Assault because we want to fight. All these jerks do is cap as fast as they can and run away if they see anyone. Its really ruining this game for myself and a lot of people. Maybe if they ever finish they can have like lobbies and stuff where we can choose to play without light mechs. Or is any kind of finished version of this just a hopeless fantasy never to be fulfilled?

Where's the lobby where we don't have to play against bads with bad ideas?

[Tennex]

There are these people who right as soon as game starts they go for cap. Just a beeline for the other base.

if you want to get from point A to point B, you can do that in real life.

its called going to work.


i'm here to play a heated game of giant robots. not morning commute simulator 2013. If you stay at point B long enough you get a raise! yay

Edited by Tennex, 13 July 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[LauLiao]

My only problem is the guy in the Atlas DDC who thinks he's going to "stealth" around the edge of the map to base cap, ends the game with 4 damage, full ammo, still haven't gotten anywhere close to the enemy base.

[Deathlike]

LauLiao, on 13 July 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

My only problem is the guy in the Atlas DDC who thinks he's going to "stealth" around the edge of the map to base cap, ends the game with 4 damage, full ammo, still haven't gotten anywhere close to the enemy base.

Those are always headscratchers.... I understand if you are stripped and have no usable weapons, capping is your primary option (outside of being a wall to help your teammates out)... but those ninja assault cappers like to run at speeds under 50kph... you might as well just have taken a dump before the guy reaches his destination.

[RedrumnCoke]

One of the favorite tactics among the group of guys I play with is to have a light hit the base to divide up the enemy force. Then, we all push forward. Usually, we have the light get it as low as possible without going over and save that as our ace in the hole should the tide of battle turn. It's a legitimate tactic and makes the game more interesting than straight deathmatch (which I never liked).

It does help to have a team that knows its roles. If your base is being capped, it is generally the lights job to go back as it usually is another light, and they should let the team know if they need backup. If there are no lights, then that role falls to the mediums. Of course, if you see your base is going down really fast which implies a lot of enemy units there, then it is best to head back as a group.

However, given that some of the larger maps can make it hard to get back to the base in time, I would like to see the time to capture increased for the larger maps like Alpine.

[Hexenhammer]

King of the hill.

Problem solved.

[Mackman]

What bothers me is when a group of 3 or four choose all light mechs (all with the capping module) and go straight to cap every time. It's literally unbeatable when you're pugging on Alpine or Caustic, and really hard to beat on anything but the very smallest maps.

Those people aren't playing "tactically", there isn't some "counter" that's viable in pugs: They're just {Richard Cameron} out to troll games.

[Deathlike]

Mackman, on 13 July 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

What bothers me is when a group of 3 or four choose all light mechs (all with the capping module) and go straight to cap every time. It's literally unbeatable when you're pugging on Alpine or Caustic, and really hard to beat on anything but the very smallest maps.

Those people aren't playing "tactically", there isn't some "counter" that's viable in pugs: They're just {Richard Cameron} out to troll games.

They troll because they can... mainly because (like PPCs) PGI has yet thought to refine Assault further. Assault for the most part is fine, but there are issues... like two teams missing each other (Forest Colony, River City) and just outright capping each others bases. The mode itself can be improved in various ways (especially with expanding the base defense radius for the defending team)... but that's besides the point. It is really PGI's fault/responsibility to address and improve the system.

[BillyM]

I only dislike the current base-cappers because the game mechanic is crap...

"miniECM light is standing in the magic space box running down the magic space timer"

Make the cap points damage-based, 500 armor point blast doors placed within a structure (to avoid LRM/Sniping)

Benefits:
-No longer just a light game, higher DPS means faster capping
-Believable, not a magic-space-box with a magic-space-timer
-Capping is a trade-off, you're running hot and expending ammo
-We get to shoot more things! Who doesn't like blowing things up?!
-Lights can still take a few shots to turn the team back, but no more circle-streaking-stillcapping-space-magic

-BillyM (likes capping, but wants it to have trade-offs)

Edited by BillyM, 13 July 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[LoveLost85]

easy fix is to make only one POI int the middle of the map in a very open area, then have a 'power struggle' bar similar to the bars on each of the POI in conquest mode, but bigger. that way some jack *** wants to run straight to cap, hell have to stand in the middle of the map out in the open for an very long time to do so. but at the same time, if it comes down to 1-2 mediums/assaults/heavies vs a running light that refuses to accept its over you can still end it through cap means, by either full capping the center POI or drawing him out to face the inevitable. seriously, its such an easy fix its sad

[Nodrak]

There is a fundamental issue with the Assault game-type that is not fully present in the Conquest mode. The problem is that it is possible to win the game using a sound strategy and not encounter the enemy team. This is mainly due to the 'dual base' setup that is used. There is no mechanic in game to force the opposing forces to conflict, and conflict current relies on the 'faster mech accepting combat'.

Other games have solved this basic issue decades ago with having game objectives be critical for both teams. The CTF style gameplay does this by requiring both teams to be invested in the flag. The conquest mode helps this situation a bit following other games push into the 'map control' style of combat. The general slowness of the mechs combined with their long effective ranges does not mesh well with the map control style when you only have 8 players. Most games with a map control mode people settle on 8 players a side as the bare minimum required to make the mode viable. I am hoping 12v12 will improve this, but they would have to make Friendly Fire more visible to make PUG 12's not terrible.

Proposals:
1) Change Assault from 'dual bases' to 'King of the Hill', or 'CTF' style. Can add randomness to the Hill/Flag location to encourage dynamic use of terrain.

2) Change Conquest point system. The points seem to easy to accumulate with 3+ bases and too slow with 2 or less. Lacking light mechs or having them die early is decimating on these maps because the average speed mechs will require about 100 points or more to cap a point from a spot thats not sitting in a cap already. Slow mechs options on conquest are 'kill all enemies' or 'defend a cap'.

[Cherry Darling]

Just started playing tonight...but haven't seen any matches where players "capped" all of the matches I played ended in the complete destruction of the other team, in both Assault and Conquest.

Edited by Cherry Darling, 13 July 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[BillyM]

...quite the large sample you've got there.

--billyM

[hammerreborn]

BillyM, on 13 July 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

I only dislike the current base-cappers because the game mechanic is crap...

"miniECM light is standing in the magic space box running down the magic space timer"

Make the cap points damage-based, 500 armor point blast doors placed within a structure (to avoid LRM/Sniping)

Benefits:
-No longer just a light game, higher DPS means faster capping
-Believable, not a magic-space-box with a magic-space-timer
-Capping is a trade-off, you're running hot and expending ammo
-We get to shoot more things! Who doesn't like blowing things up?!
-Lights can still take a few shots to turn the team back, but no more circle-streaking-stillcapping-space-magic

-BillyM (likes capping, but wants it to have trade-offs)

Sure, do that. I'd actually cap faster that way (30 damage alpha at about 5 seconds a shot (for heat management) downs the base in a little less than a minute and a half compared to the 2 minutes now.

Bring two Jenners and you no longer even have a minute to return to base.