45 replies to this topic

[Odins Fist]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 July 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

That's actually a massive "problem created."

With no hard separation of new and experienced players, if only experienced players have Clan tech, they're getting a massive advantage, on top of the advantage they already have of having played for a long time.

I'm sorry don't new players get 11 MILLION C-Bills after a dozen matches..???
Isn't there a MC to GXP conversion..???

I think PGI would still get their money.

So now it's the experienced pilots that get hosed for having a bank roll of C-Bills and GXP that they got through playing the game and spending REAL CASH along the way..??

Ok then "Participation Trophies" for everyone.. Except for those that actually participated by playing the game.

No hard separation of new and experienced players..??? I thought they were going to have a lobby in the future, and more tweaks to matchmaking, and 12 v 12, and community warfare, and a fee for creating a Merc Corp??

Sorry I don't see it, I thought they wanted to KEEP people playing, I thought micro transactions were the plan, not large transactions galore..?? $20.00 here, $35.00 there, and then $80.00, and at least once more..??

I have a planned amount i'm willing to pay, a reasonable amount compared to other titles, yeah i'm not going to have to rent a dedicated server, but seeing as there is no support for that, then it's a non issue.. Sooner or later trying to milk a cow too much will get you kicked by the cow...

New people will have to pay regardless, whether in terms of playing the game to get C-bills or GXP, or buying Mechs and GXP.
PGI will make money either way, so why add another $80.00 to $120.00, gouging to the player base that is it's main support group..?? That would be an even bigger gouge to brand new players, I will explain..

NEW GUY: Downloads "Free to Play" MWO.. New guy see's cool Mechs, New guy looks at costs and see's MC or $80.00 price tag, New Guy says "Not free to play", New Guy that never heard of MechWarrior/Battletech decides too expensive to be "Free to Play", New Guy doesn't comeback after getting ROFL stomped by 4 mans..
(-That's just an example maybe extreme, maybe not. I know "free to play" doesn't mean free, I get that.-)

VETERAN PLAYER: Has already spent quite a bit of money, Veteran has been grinding, playing and spending, and waiting for Clan Tech or New Mechs or whatever CW content, Veteran buys Pheonix pack , but still isn't happy waiting, Veteran sees announcement of Clan Mechs and Tech, Veteran sees yet another $40.00 to $80.00 price tag, Veteran wonders when CW will be finished, Veteran wonders when tweaking and balancing will be done to their satisfaction, Veteran spews complaints on forums. I'm not even talking about the Founders either, MWO has been in so called BETA for so long the Founder Tag is no longer the qualifier for Veteran.

It isn't what PGI (the producer) considers reasonable, it's what the Player (the consumer) considers reasonable that will dictate the consideration of a future purchase, or time willing to be spent WAITING for something to be finished/implemented.

At first I thought waitng for 6 months to whenever for Clan Tech to be brought out after release would be unreasonable, then I thought it might be a good idea, and now that the Timeline has been called "FLUFF" and basically scraped because development of MWO can't keep up, I have changed my mind again, but not because of the Clan Tech issue, because of the unfinished state of MWO.

The reality of the situation is this... How long are the normal, and hardcore BattleTech players going to wait for MWO to be finished..?? How much MORE are those people willing to spend..?? We are quite a ways into the development of MWO, so much so that the Timeline has been scrapped, content has yet to be released, CW isn't here, Operation Revival WAVE-4 is on, etc, etc, etc,...
The "Consumer" wants a product that satisfies some sort of need or WANT, and if said product does not do this for the "Consumer", then guess what.... Adding yet another $80.00 price tag to long awaited content is not a confidence inspiring move in my opinion, maybe i'm wrong, but im my experience 2+2(usually) = 4.
It's all about "Consumer Confidence" now, and i'm seeing more and more of this as an issue with friends and other players, again.

I have given MWO more time than I thought I would by about 3 months, i'm willing to see what happens with 12 v 12, and the beginning of CW, and hopefully Clan Mechs. After that if MWO doesn't float my boat, then guess what, done, over.

There is, and always has been a window of opportunity, some things got through that window before is closed halfway, some of it didn't, i'm waiting just so much longer to see what happens..

Is that unreasonable.?? You know since I AM the CONSUMER expected to spend my money on THEIR product.??

Moooooo..!!!

Edited by Odins Fist, 15 July 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Riptor, on 15 July 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Oh please...

Clan mechs will be implemented like every other mech... they will be purchasable just like your run of the mill IS mech.

I cannot imagine that they really are going to split the playerbase between clans and IS, not only because everyone would choose clans just to stay competitive... but also because there was and is no plan of locking mechs and weapons behind factions.

I agree. Since we have only one account and no characters or pilots on an account, it would cause all kind of issues blocking access like that. No one is going to throw away hundreds of dollars worth of mechs to become a Clan-exclusive member.

And it might also be completely unfeasible to have working queues if the'd split factions like that, too. Games with better balance then M:WO or Battletech have problems with faction population imbalance...

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 15 July 2013 - 10:33 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

verybad, on 15 July 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

The clans use money, it's called a Kerensky Dollar or something, but they DO use money.I suspect Clan Omnimechs might ONLY be available through actual cash, at least at first, and for a while. Tjey're not going to limit their customer base, it just won't happen. You'll be able to buy clan mechs no matter how bad you are.

That would be blantant P2W if they did that and if that happened people would desert in droves.

Honestly I am not sure how the Clans will be implemented. In some ways it would be nice if it was an unlock process where you have to earn your mechs but then we are talking two seperate games really.

What I honestly think will happen is that Clan mechs will just be uber expensive to buy with C-bills, in the 20-30 million range most of the time. Then to make sure there is balance, they will impose some different limitations on how you build them out i.e. can only change out weapons but hardpoints are universal mounts instead of seperated like they are now. Additionally they will allow IS players to purchase and mount Clan weapons since mounting captured clan weapons on IS mechs is fully supported in lore.

In the end the only real difference will be more whether the mech is a Clan or IS base design and less what weapons or equipment the can mount.

[Purlana]

Roland, on 15 July 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

The result of this is going to be that most of the weapons that are currently in the game will just become trash equipment that serves no useful purpose at all.

Q: When do you use Inner Spere LRM's instead of Clan LRM's?
A: Never

That already happens with DHS vs SHS and Normal Lasers vs Pulse Lasers. I feel like half of the weapons in the current game are not really used anyway.

Edited by Purlana, 15 July 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[lordsegan]

Well written OP.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Match making will work just like it does today, why change a winning formula.
12 Masakari vs. 10 Dragons, an Awesome, and a disconnect.

Welcome the the game!

[WVAnonymous]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 15 July 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Why fight for the IS? It's all about the c-bills baby. Plus facing down the most ridiculously OP cheese mechs in the game with inferior technology is a challenge and I love a good challenge.

Plus I can rationalize my ridiculously low KDR by blaming it on OP Clan Tech...

[Volkodav]

Roland, on 15 July 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

The result of this is going to be that most of the weapons that are currently in the game will just become trash equipment that serves no useful purpose at all.

Q: When do you use Inner Spere LRM's instead of Clan LRM's?
A: Never

AND IT ISN'T NECESSARY - TO USE THE OLD WEAPONS. THE HISTORY MOVES FORWARD. AND THE NEW WEAPON COMES IN STEAD OF THE OLD.


p.s.. In BattleTech was also: )

Edited by Volkodav, 15 July 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[Sephlock]

Roland, on 15 July 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

The result of this is going to be that most of the weapons that are currently in the game will just become trash equipment that serves no useful purpose at all.

You mean like MGs, LBX, AC/5s, AC/10s, Flamers, LRM5s, LRM10s, Narc, slas, ER Large Lasers, Large Pulse Lasers, Medium Pulse Lasers, Small Pulse Lasers, Artillery Strikes, Airstrikes.... ?

Quote

Q: When do you use Inner Spere LRM's instead of Clan LRM's?
A: Never

They could re-implement R&R. I still cringe when I remember what it was like when firing LRMs was like lobbing gold bricks at your opponents- and easily dodged gold bricks, at that!

[Sephlock]

If regular LRMs were inexpensive and Clan LRMs were like gold bricks I can see myself never using Clan LRMs.

[Joseph Mallan]

I will fight for the IS as long as House Steiner is available.

[Odins Fist]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

I will fight for the IS as long as House Steiner is available.

F.Y.I. - The Inner Sphere maps aren't going to change much if at all, one House will NOT be able to defeat/destroy another House in CW. Or is all that false now..??

Would it be feasible to let it just go how it goes, and then have a reset of the Inner Sphere Map every 4 months..??
But really what is the point of fighting for control over a couple planets on the edge of the periphery?

I mean the Timeline is toast now, Operation Revival WAVE -3 is over and we are in WAVE-4 now.
Oh wait, the Timeline was scrapped, nevermind, or will it be brought back/reset after development of MWO catches back up?
Too many unanswered questions and variables to predict what MWO will end up being now.

[Riptor]

Odins Fist, on 15 July 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

$80.00 is more than I pay for a single title, so "NO", I can keep my Teamspeak running an entire year for $80.00.
4 months, nope that will be goodbye, unless something spectacular is happening in MWO (meaning better then what's going on now by a LOT).

Have a huge C-Bill cost for the Mechs, and a GXP buy in to access teh Clan Mechs and Tech. Up it to 25,000 GXP.
Also the Clan weapons should be double the price of normal weapons.

Problem solved, player base happy, money still being made. player base not leaving or mooching to spite the DEVs, and a ridiculous $80.00 price tag for pictures of a Mech in the Picture of a Mech Bay avoided.

A fool and their money...

Easy there... i am not a fan of those grab deals either and have often enough pointed out just how little REAL worth you get for your money in these packages.

Everytime someone tries to sell me that those packages are really good deals i am remembered of a certain street fighter movie...



MC = Bison dollars

"On the contrary! Every MC will be worth 5 American Dollars once PGI kidnaps the clan mechs!"

But all that does not change that this is the most plausible route they will take when they get around to introducing the clan mechs.

Edited by Riptor, 15 July 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[TheUndying]

As i see it - the best idea in my opinion is to make clans buyable with MC cash 4 month pre release BUT. Clans vs Clans only matchmaking for at least 3 months. After that - here we go Clans vs IS only for last month. As in BT universe.
And after that i'd make clan tech available in some other way - not just MC or credits.

[Joseph Mallan]

Odins Fist, on 15 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

F.Y.I. - The Inner Sphere maps aren't going to change much if at all, one House will NOT be able to defeat/destroy another House in CW. Or is all that false now..??

Would it be feasible to let it just go how it goes, and then have a reset of the Inner Sphere Map every 4 months..??
But really what is the point of fighting for control over a couple planets on the edge of the periphery?

I mean the Timeline is toast now, Operation Revival WAVE -3 is over and we are in WAVE-4 now.
Oh wait, the Timeline was scrapped, nevermind, or will it be brought back/reset after development of MWO catches back up?
Too many unanswered questions and variables to predict what MWO will end up being now.

Not what I was trying to imply Odin. Just I am an Inner Sphere player.

[Odins Fist]

Riptor, on 15 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Easy there...

This is the most plausible route they will take when they get around to introducing the clan mechs.

Plausible... hmmmm
Not sure if reasonable, or not for obvious other things I have already pointed out, or doughnuts...

Odins Fist, on 15 July 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Sorry I don't see it, I thought they wanted to KEEP people playing, I thought micro transactions were the plan, not large transactions galore..?? $20.00 here, $35.00 there, and then $80.00, and at least another $80.00 once more..?? There are already planned fees for Merc Corps formation, and possible League Play hosting fees, so more and bigger prices for LONG OVERDUE content isn't what I call reasonable.. For them it's a money maker, for us it's a moment, and a possible drop in Consumer confidence.

New people will have to pay regardless (internet costs, gaming rig built, time invested), whether in terms of playing the game to get C-bills or GXP, or buying MC Mechs and converting GXP. PGI will make money either way, so why add another $80.00 to $120.00, gouging to the player base that is it's main support group..?? That would be an even bigger gouge to brand new players, I will explain..

NEW GUY: Downloads "Free to Play" MWO.. New guy see's cool Mechs, New guy looks at costs and see's MC or $80.00 price tag, New Guy says "Not free to play", New Guy that never heard of MechWarrior/Battletech decides too expensive to be "Free to Play", New Guy doesn't comeback after getting ROFL stomped by 4 mans..
(-That's just an example maybe extreme, maybe not. I know "free to play" doesn't mean free, I get that.-)

VETERAN PLAYER: Has already spent quite a bit of money, Veteran has been grinding, playing and spending, and waiting for Clan Tech or New Mechs or whatever CW content, Veteran buys Pheonix pack , but still isn't happy waiting, Veteran sees announcement of Clan Mechs and Tech, Veteran sees yet another $40.00 to $80.00 price tag, Veteran wonders when CW will be finished, Veteran wonders when tweaking and balancing will be done to their satisfaction, Veteran spews complaints on forums. I'm not even talking about the Founders either, MWO has been in so called BETA for so long the Founder Tag is no longer the qualifier for Veteran.

It isn't what PGI (the producer) considers reasonable, it's what the Player (the consumer) considers reasonable that will dictate the consideration of a future purchase, or time willing to be spent WAITING for something to be finished/implemented.

The reality of the situation is this... How long are the normal, and hardcore BattleTech players going to wait for MWO to be finished..?? How much MORE are those people willing to spend..?? We are quite a ways into the development of MWO, so much so that the Timeline has been scrapped, content has yet to be released, CW isn't here, Operation Revival WAVE-4 is on, etc, etc, etc,...
The "Consumer" wants a product that satisfies some sort of need or WANT, and if said product does not do this for the "Consumer", then guess what.... Adding yet another $80.00 price tag to long awaited content is not a confidence inspiring move in my opinion, maybe i'm wrong, but im my experience 2+2(usually) = 4.
It's all about "Consumer Confidence" now, and i'm seeing more and more of this as an issue with friends and other players, again.

Is that unreasonable.?? You know since I AM the CONSUMER expected to spend "MY" money on THEIR product.??

Edited by Odins Fist, 15 July 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Well, personally the Adder is the only clan mech I really want so its not like I'll be giving up my blackjacks or cataphracts...

[Sephlock]

Steiner-Davion forever!

[Joseph Mallan]

Sephlock, on 15 July 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Steiner-Davion forever!

Or at least till the late 3050s early 3060s.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Biruke, on 15 July 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Very simple - don't pay the players anything for fighting for clans. Clan warriors know nothing about money and disgust anything concerning it. It's from the books They don't know what c-bills are for.

I.e. you want to buy a new mech - earn some c-bills fighting for the IS first. Want something new or refit - go fight for the IS again.

+ returning R&R (lowered) costs for the IS and 3 times that cost for the clantech.

+ clantech and upgrades available for both c-bills and MC would give the choice for hardcore clan warriors to pay money or to show their talent on the IS side from time to time.

The clans had merchants in their system.

As for the rest I'm unsure what you're saying.

Clan tech can come when it comes... till then, just let it go.

Sephlock, on 15 July 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Steiner-Davion forever!

This explains a lot about you.