461 replies to this topic

[Hythos]

Tsenado, on 16 July 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

When you are talking about Clans then it's a different story, we aren't anywhere near getting anything Clan at the moment, and to be honest I never want to see the Clans tech, hard enough as it is to balance what we already have.

Some of us spent MC for the Jagger Hero, and this is what we get to drive a jagger lol

I thought "live" is two months away? Unless its' been changed again.
However - I strongly believe what we're seeing is for future-proofing so that they don't have to balance us again, later.... having separate load-out rules for different chassis would be too much work (it would be fine as a "quirk", in my opinion), but instead we have...

ONE RULE TO RING THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!1

[warner2]

Asatruer, on 16 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Seems more and more true.

If PGI kept their own 1 weapon per hard-point limitation and added MW4's hard-point size restrictions they'd be onto a winner.

[TostitoBandito]

http://mwomercs.com/...-heat-increase/

Please test the Gauss and AC2 if you can. IGP insists that nothing changed on those weapons and that the data in the xml is not what is being used in-game.

[MustrumRidcully]

tredmeister, on 16 July 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

I agree that 6 (or even 4-5) PPC Stalkers are ridiculous!
However, my 3 PPC Awesomes are cannon builds (Upgraded to DHS's) and I usually only alpha maybe 3-4 times in a match. I use chainfire probably 80% of the time, and I am no slacker at heat management either. I still occasionally screw up and shut down, and now that's a sure death sentence. I am instantly "self cored" and waiting for a Spider to finish me off with a small laser.



You know... for all the crying that used to go on about the MW4 hardpoint system, I definitely think it beats what we have now!

Here's the thing. It's irrelevant whether something is canon or not to the question if it's balanced.

If 3+ PPCs is imbalanced, then it's imbalanced even on a canon mech. You have to get used to chain-fire if you don't want the heat penalty.


Yes, the heat penalty/scaling system or whatever they call it is bad system to fix alpha strike boating, but if what it tries to rebalance is really in need of balancing, it is need of balancing irrespective of what is stock and what is custom-build.

[Mack1]

PGI seems to be stripping layers of fun off this game with every patch, it's amazing that we have gone from a great fun game that I have spent hundreds of hours playing to a game that now feels like bloody hard work just to play. I am sure many of you still enjoy it but I am now averaging an hour a week tops in game and after tonight's horrible patch I doubt if an hour a week will even be completed.

PGI I have one thing to say to you, don't forget this is a game and should be fun, you are turning it into a horrible playing experience about numbers and heat management. Why do you think WOT has millions of players and MWO has only thousands? It's because WOT is easy and fun, MWO is becoming a bloody nightmare.

[Tsenado]

Hythos, on 16 July 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

I thought "live" is two months away? Unless its' been changed again.
However - I strongly believe what we're seeing is for future-proofing so that they don't have to balance us again, later.... having separate load-out rules for different chassis would be too much work (it would be fine as a "quirk", in my opinion), but instead we have...

ONE RULE TO RING THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!1

It is? you got a link? maybe I haven't keep up the news, didn't even know Clans are coming since we still have Project Phoenix on the way.

I can see the adjustments for the snipers, but a super close range brawler AC40 Jagger(aka paper armor assassin?) boggles my mind a little, and it's not a small adjustment either.

[Qrbaza]

About AC20. OK it is little high penalty for only 1 extra gun but you try being in medium. A single alpha destroy a limb or CT armor. Second alpha kill your engine. In 4 sec. you cant destroy side torso of a jager so AC40 Jager have clear advantage since the speed are near equal, turn speed and armor...

Still if you ask me MW4 hardpoint system is far better solution than this heat multiplyer. Now more than ever since you are damaged if heat is more than 100% witch is absurd as we have shutdown safety system. Shutdown is in place just for that reason not to get damaged. If override the system than you get damaged depends on how hot you are. If you ask me we get double penaltie couse of extreme PPC boating kids like to abuse. I never boated PPC's or AC20's couse i like to be challanged in games. 1 klick kill is just not interesting and i would get borred fast.

[PhoenixFire55]

Buckminster, on 16 July 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

But these are all clan mechs. A lot of people still think of the old TT stuff, where the Awesome was the only mech with more than 2 PPCs.

As I said, thats just off the top of my head. If you search for it you'll find plenty of old IS mechs that can have same armaments.

Sable Dove, on 16 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Those don't really prove anything. Even the variant with 8 LRM15s could fire all of its weapons in 4 seconds in MWO with no penalty, which is less than one turn.

As much as I hope to see many Stalkers blow themselves up, a better idea would have been to reduce the heat cap and introduce penalties for staying at high heat. But that's just wishful thinking.

I'd say, remove perfect auto convergence and increase missile spread by a lot if you boat a lot of them. Heat penalties are still just dumb as they are now.

Penalizing running with high heat will only nerf lights even further, high-alpha builds don't always stay at high heat.

[Farpenoodle]

Cross posting from the patch thread and Homeless Bill's thread:

"So having played for the past two hours, it does seem like getting hit with a **** ton of damage to a single location is a lot less common. I'm having a much easier time spreading the damage over the rest of my mech. Maybe it worked? Different projectile speeds and all that I guess? If anything I'm shocked I'm not seeing more 2PPC+2ER PPC stalkers right now. "

"Took my BJ-1X out for a few matches. Yeah it's technically a nerf. Firing all 8 MLs shoots my heat all the way up to like 45+% whereas firing 6 then 2 brings it to just under 30%. That said, it's not too hard to manage. And putting up decent numbers with it is still perfectly doable. My initial reaction is fairly positive. Mainly because I'm mostly not affected by it and it's made it easier to play and not die. However, the boating penalties need to be made clear to the player. Maybe flash some warning on the screen when firing more than the threshold. This also needs to be communicated in the Mechlab when UI2.0 comes out. Maybe flash a warning when you mount more than the threshold on any given mech. If you're going to implement a system like this, new players need an easy way to see this information."

[Tsenado]

Qrbaza, on 16 July 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

About AC20. OK it is little high penalty for only 1 extra gun but you try being in medium. A single alpha destroy a limb or CT armor. Second alpha kill your engine. In 4 sec. you cant destroy side torso of a jager so AC40 Jager have clear advantage since the speed are near equal, turn speed and armor...

You are already out of league, medium vs heavy. not to mention they have to crawl slowly up to your face, since these jagger aren't running speed like a medium.

Try fight an AC40 jagger at 800m, they aren't so deadly like you mention they are anymore. and your medium likely will give that jagger a hard time at that range.

[Ningyo]

OK did some testing in game, its all slightly inexact since I have to account for only having 1% increments of heat show up on the heat gauge, and differences in temperature. However most of this has been accounted for and these should be close to accurate.

Firing 1 gauss produces 1 heat
Firing 2 PPC + 2 ERPPC produces 38 heat

Firing
1 PPC = 8 heat
2 PPC = 16 heat
3 PPC = 32 heat (additional 8)
4 PPC = 54 heat (additional 14)

1 ERPPC = 11
2 ERPPC = 22
3 ERPPC = 40 (additional 7)
4 ERPPC = 62 (additional 11)

1 LRM 15 = 5
2 LRM 15 = 10
3 LRM 15 = 16.5 (additional 1.5)
4 LRM 15 = 24.5 (additional 3)

Oh and all these numbers should be within 1 and probably within 0.25 of being correct, but again I cannot guarantee truly exact figures do to testing limitations.


Overall I cannot fathom what equation they are using, it just makes no sense at all.

Edited by Ningyo, 16 July 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Milocinia]

Bloody Moon, on 16 July 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Ahahah, you thought we point out the mistakes in this Heat mechanic 'cos we cannot/will not adapt?

Way ahead of you, most of my mechs were changed to reflect the new system two days ago, even had some practice in them to see if they are worse than the previous ones and they are roughly on the same level.

The only ones who are ******** over with this are the new players.

You're not way ahead of me because I adopted a proper balanced loadout and play style since closed beta, playing the game as it should be played. I haven't had a single PPC on my HGN since the Heavy Metal was released. It's carefully balanced for sustained HPS/DPS and it's by far my most used and most successful mech.

And all of you, please shut the hell up about in canon this and in canon that. This is a FPV game where you mostly fire where you click, not some random dice rolls. THAT is the major difference and why these heat penalties are needed. Can a TT veteran tell me what the chances are of an AWS firing all 3 PPCs for all 3 to hit the CT?

Convergence still needs work but you should find that it does have a slight nerf due to more chain firing and less alpha, meaning it's highly unlikely for shots to land on the same spot. If someone wants to risk a big alpha then that's fine by me but then they take the heat penalty for it and are subsequently unable to lay down any sustained attack while they cool off.

You people are just mindblowingly stupid. Good job PGI, for once.

[Nulnoil]

Hey! Why you deleted my feedback?? I installed patch, tested it and uninstalled game client after. Then made this gif for you, PGI, as short form of feedback i mean. Whats wrong with you? Or you needs only rapturous feedback?

Edited by Daumantas Galland, 16 July 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Sephlock]

Me: http://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes
Me: SEVEN
Me: sweet baby jesus
Me: wait, a multipier of 1.0?
Me: wait, and other weapons have just "1". is my math skill EVEN WORSE THAN I THOUGHT, or are they just using inconsistent notation
Me: because i'm pretty sure 1.0 = 1
Me: right?
Me: ?
Him: is number 1 the destruction of twitter? #hashtags are real ******* obnoxious
Me: lol
Him: Number 5. Jump jet crosshair shake frequency has been reduced.
Him: why
Me: ppl were getting a bit sick looking at it
Him: dont jump jet
Him: problem solved
Me: Maximum Heat Threshold
You will now take internal damage at 100+% heat. Reduced from 120%
Me: gah lrm15 2
Me: HOLY ******* JESUS
Me: SCALE MULTIPLIER 24?!
Me: MY NUTS
Me: PLEASE STOP SQUEEZING MY NUTS
Me: OW OW OW OW
Him: flying isnt for everyone
Him: just ask icarus
Me: Some other notes on the new streaks:
- Legs that are destroyed will still be targeted by streaks.
Me: THAT IS COMPLETE AND UTTER ******* **********
Me: because you do reduced damage (but it transfers to the next body piece)
Me: - Fixed an issue where users who used a Saitek x52 joystick experienced dead zones.
<-- that seems awfully specific. still, good job.
Him: does the scale multiplier effect every weapon or just the weapons over the cap
Him: also seriously what the **** is wrong with 2xAC20s
Me: - Certain cockpit items will now animate when you power down/power up your 'Mech.
Me: yay!
Him: that isnt even a rare build in tabletop
Me: weapons over the cap
Him: that heat table for boating is the dumbest ******* thing and the devs should feel bad for thinking it was a solution
Him: if people dont want to boat maybe they should make a table top variant only mode
Him: oh wait that would needlessly fracture the playerbase that is already small
Me: It has to do with how often you fire them within a given timeframe.

[PhoenixFire55]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 16 July 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Honestly, there should be some slight convergeance variations. In short, as a pilot you should have your crosshairs dialed in for X range. (say 500 meters)...at 550 they are off a bit, and at 450 they are off a bit right? Therefore unless you have a "perfect shot at exactly 500 meters" there will be some spread.

Yeah. Torso weapons converge at a distance you set in mechlab and can't change in-game. Arm weapons converge manually or automatically provided you have a targeting computer that weights 3-5 tons and takes 2-3 crit slots.

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 16 July 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

The other option here would be to implement real heat penalties like the battletech heat scale with penalties and damage and exploding things. Sorry convergence alone is not enough.

Convergence is more then enough to make SRM-LBX builds better then PPC-Gauss builds up close. In TT heat works differently, as long as you have enough heat sinks it does not build any heat at all. Here you build heat anyway so thats not gonna be a proper heat penalty if you implement same things TT has.

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 16 July 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Having said that, this would likely require massive rework, and things are already delayed enough. I think what has been proposed can work, although it will probably require constant tweaking.

It requires thinking more than anything and they fail to do it. They show it almost every patch. These 'boating' nerfs go against everything BattleTech is. But thats PGI for you, do first, think 3 months after.

[Milocinia]

Daumantas Galland, on 16 July 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Hey! Why you deleted my feedback?? I installed patch, tested it and uninstalled game client after. Then made this gif for you, PGI, as short form of feedback i mean. Whats wrong with you? Or you needs only rapturous feedback?

Excellent, don't come back whiner. You obviously can't adapt and now you don't have an easy button to click you're out of ideas. Go min-max in some other broken game.

[keith]

Kyocera, on 16 July 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

You're not way ahead of me because I adopted a proper balanced loadout and play style since closed beta, playing the game as it should be played. I haven't had a single PPC on my HGN since the Heavy Metal was released. It's carefully balanced for sustained HPS/DPS and it's by far my most used and most successful mech.

And all of you, please shut the hell up about in canon this and in canon that. This is a FPV game where you mostly fire where you click, not some random dice rolls. THAT is the major difference and why these heat penalties are needed. Can a TT veteran tell me what the chances are of an AWS firing all 3 PPCs for all 3 to hit the CT?

Convergence still needs work but you should find that it does have a slight nerf due to more chain firing and less alpha, meaning it's highly unlikely for shots to land on the same spot. If someone wants to risk a big alpha then that's fine by me but then they take the heat penalty for it and are subsequently unable to lay down any sustained attack while they cool off.

You people are just mindblowingly stupid. Good job PGI, for once.

if this is a FPS game then the best way to play it is pure alpha dam on the fastest fire rate u can get. any FPS is played like that, y do u think the awp is the best wep in CS. its a one shot kill. anything in MWO with 30 alpha or higher in hud is a 1 shot kill, that how some of us like to play. not some balanced build. u can go your dps, but this is not some high health dungeon boss in wow, alpha reigns king in fps.

[Jackie Butters]

Like the new heat scaling.

As for the change of heat damage threshold should be over 100% either 5%, 7.5%, 10%, etc.
Even 2.5% over would be acceptable over the current value.

[Corvus Antaka]

Please keep this thread on topic.

So far heatscale is good. surprised how easy the cap seems even at 100% though. Very happy with how it is playing so far.

[East Indy]

I've played two matches so far in my stock-plus Hunchback 4G.

I only spotted one of the most egregious cheese builds. Cataphracts are a tick up, but the most unusual increase in popularity seems to be the Awesome, which is — well — awesome. A lot more variety, to be sure.

The best part is the pacing. So much more deliberate. I love it.