25 replies to this topic

[Damocles69]

OK. Put down the pitch forks and hear me out.

The only thing that made streaks dangerouse was the ct target favoring with this removed the exponetaly less scary (actually almost useless). IMO they need to do 2 DMG a missile to keep em in play. Do we really want another useless weapon?

[Nexus Omega]

Yes, Yes they should. +1
/thread

However The Devs have stated (not sure when, may have been NGNG) mechs are doing to much damage, i Think the 1.1 LRM damage and 1.5 SRM reflects this, the 2.0 SRM buff is temporary (HA!) until the hit registration is fixed.

I think we can look forward to more damage reduction methods on the Future. (like the current HeatScale brokenesss)

[blinkin]

now that streaks spread around damage and are functionally balanced with the SRM2, i think it would generally be a good idea to keep them on the same damage scale.

[Orzorn]

I agree. Now that they spread damage around they might as well be 2.0 anyways.

[Tennex]

could use a slight buff.

but also a slight preference for CT.

[jakucha]

Fine by me.

[Tennex]

People say sSRMs are a skilless weapon. Which is why they have to be nerfed to crap.

I say add skill to sSRMs by changing its lockon mechanics.


using the same lockon system as LRM was lazy in the first place. Giving sSRMs its own lockon type would be a good start.

Edited by Tennex, 17 July 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Damocles69, on 17 July 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Do we really want another useless weapon?

A couple months ago people were taking up the pitchforks you mentioned and rioting the doors of PGI to nerf them and raven.
I think we need to keep calm about a sub-par weapon for now while they work out some other major issues about missiles that made most of the problems. Splash damage. Before they do any kind of damage tweak, I'd like to see how they fix splash damage first. That 2 damage you are calling for could be hidden in that secret recipe. Yet, if they bump it to 2 damage, and then implement splash damage, that's a lot more than 2.
Sure they could spend the time fiddling with numbers after that to fix the damage, but I'd rather than not even bother with bumping up the damage if that means it's going to have to go through Q&A, a design stage, flight path change, etc etc, all that crap.

Fix the underlying issues, like splash damage (and flight paths... >.>) THEN tweak the damage accordingly, and bring it all together.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Tennex, on 17 July 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

People say sSRMs are a skilless weapon. Which is why they have to be nerfed to crap.

I say add skill to sSRMs by changing its lockon mechanics.


using the same lockon system as LRM was lazy in the first place. Giving sSRMs its own lockon type would be a good start.

Skill would be adding a minimum turning radius over a certain range, like it can only do a 90 degree turn over 30 meter arc. (example).
That way you are required to point your torso at the target and press fire, even if you have a lock-on. Then depending on the skill of the pilot that's under-fire, it can still be avoided (maybe). And, also it requires a minimum range it needs to fly out and away from the silos (like 25m) before it can take a turn.

Right now, it's just if the target is within 45 degrees you sustain your lock. But I have raven's getting lock, looking away, firing, missiles hit me, and they pan their torso over my mech to keep the lock from unlocking (as long as the reticle passes over the mech before a certain amount of time, you keep your lock), and then firing again as I run past them. The only way to break lock is to run out of that 45 degrees.
No matter how close you are..

So with a min range before turning? They're required to look at you if they want to have any chance of hitting you at 25m, and even a little bit more because of the turning radius limitation. They're too much "fire-and-forget" weapons. Got lock? Fire.
I'd like it to be: "Got Lock? Compensate for my streaks limitations. Fire." That compensation can change play styles and require people to adapt and learn about their weapon. That's skill.


My only questions are: Why doesn't PGI do this? Have they tested it? Is it too much work? Do they think it's not worth it?

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 17 July 2013 - 04:00 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Just going to point this out:
SRMs still have hit registration issues.
SSRMs do not, to my knowledge.

Paul warned us that once they fix hit registration issues on SRMs the damage may have to be re-nerfed.

Thus: as the current SRM dmg is more or less a buff to counteract hit registration issues, do streaks still need the dmg buff even though they do not have those issues?

[blinkin]

One Medic Army, on 17 July 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Just going to point this out:
SRMs still have hit registration issues.
SSRMs do not, to my knowledge.

Paul warned us that once they fix hit registration issues on SRMs the damage may have to be re-nerfed.

Thus: as the current SRM dmg is more or less a buff to counteract hit registration issues, do streaks still need the dmg buff even though they do not have those issues?

probably not, but streak abusers will throw less of a fit if we keep them equal.

[Lykaon]

An over looked feature of SSRMs is that SSRMs only require a fraction of the attention devoted to other weapon systems.

This means that the attention not being used on aiming can be used elsewhere such as spacial awareness and evasion.

We saw this back when the streakcat was a dominant build.Streakcat pilots had the attention to spare for airobatics,jumping all over the place to avoid damage (by exploiting poor vertical hit detection) twisting and turning to spread damage and basicly having to have next to no concern about actually facing directly at the enemy after a lock was achieved (you don't even need to have the target in view most of the time just lock and jump/jink all over).

With the benifit of reduced attention demand AND CT damage bias the Streaks were absurd.

Then there is the Artemis IV bug.

LRMs and SSRMs share the locking mechanics and as such both benefit from Artemis.The problem is the LRM launcher pays 1 ton and 1 critical for Artemis a Streak launcher does not need to have the artemis actually on the mech to gain the advantages of reduced lock on times.All one needs to do is buy the artemis upgrade and now magicly all streaks have 50% faster lock on speed for no cost in critical spaces or tonnage.

Now put the current SSRM targeting characteristics into context of Clan SSRM launchers.

Imagine 4 SSRM6s all locking on in a second and a half from 330m away scouring a target of armor so a pair of clan ER-PPC can blast giant holes in it.That is a Timberwolf D a canon variant of the Madcat.

If this compareson helps more think of it like this a mech with 4 LB10Xs that never miss and 3 PPCs!

SSRMs did need an adjustment along the lines of the targeting spread because if they remained as they were this Timberwolf D would kill and Atlas in 4 seconds (3 PPCs and 4 LB10Xs to the CT twice!).

[Unbound Inferno]

Nexus Omega, on 17 July 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Yes, Yes they should. +1
/thread

However The Devs have stated (not sure when, may have been NGNG) mechs are doing to much damage, i Think the 1.1 LRM damage and 1.5 SRM reflects this, the 2.0 SRM buff is temporary (HA!) until the hit registration is fixed.

I think we can look forward to more damage reduction methods on the Future. (like the current HeatScale brokenesss)

http://mwomercs.com/...-balancing-mwo/

More specifically;







The relative comparable DPS if you attempt to translate a turn to 10 seconds you end up with a ridiculously skewered setup.

They really should listen, and I have a simple 3-step process for bringing it it all in line; http://mwomercs.com/...warrior-online/

Follow that, and all that's left is to tweak how fast you want the weapons to LOOK like they are firing to make it feel right.

[dario03]

I would prefer they stay as they are. I think 2ssrm2 compares pretty good to srm6 now for the same tonnage and crits. Regular srm does more damage but can miss a lot easier, also spreads damage especially at range, takes more ammo, and has a little bit longer cooldown. ssrm2 auto hits as long as nothing gets in the way and takes less ammo but requires lock which can be disrupted and does less damage and until they add cssrm6 takes more hardpoints but depending on build that might not be a issue.

Edited by dario03, 17 July 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

nope. you'll regret this when we get the ssrm 4 and 6

[Angel of Annihilation]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 17 July 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

nope. you'll regret this when we get the ssrm 4 and 6

No we wont. 4 Clan Streak SRM6s fired in alpha will only be able to manager about 6-7 damage per location based on the current Streak Model and that number is based on 2 damage per missile. Your sure as hell not going to be taking out anyone fast doing that little concentrated damage. Probably looking at around 10 Salvos or 240 missiles to manage to burn through the average Assault mechs armor enough to take it out.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 17 July 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[El Bandito]

SSRM4 will be DOA.

One Medic Army, on 17 July 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Just going to point this out: SRMs still have hit registration issues. SSRMs do not, to my knowledge. Paul warned us that once they fix hit registration issues on SRMs the damage may have to be re-nerfed. Thus: as the current SRM dmg is more or less a buff to counteract hit registration issues, do streaks still need the dmg buff even though they do not have those issues?

Even without hit registration issues, current streaks are crap. I'll give it one or two weeks tops before people replace them with regular SRMs.

[Aym]

Damocles69, on 17 July 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

OK. Put down the pitch forks and hear me out.

The only thing that made streaks dangerouse was the ct target favoring with this removed the exponetaly less scary (actually almost useless). IMO they need to do 2 DMG a missile to keep em in play. Do we really want another useless weapon?

First let's really explore the current "balance." Then let's knock ECM's range down by 30-50 meters, and maybe SSRM damage up by .1 then see how things look ok?

[mike29tw]

Am I missing something here? SSRM2 is only 2 missiles. It's supposed to be crap. It's supposed to be as crappy as SRM2. Wait for SSRM4 and SSRM6 before you make any judgement.

[Corvus Antaka]

Viktor Drake, on 17 July 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

No we wont. 4 Clan Streak SRM6s fired in alpha will only be able to manager about 6-7 damage per location based on the current Streak Model and that number is based on 2 damage per missile. Your sure as hell not going to be taking out anyone fast doing that little concentrated damage. Probably looking at around 10 Salvos or 240 missiles to manage to burn through the average Assault mechs armor enough to take it out.

A1 - 6 SRM6

6x1.5x6 = 54 damage to a random location at 1.5 dmg per SRM

sounds like plenty to me.