152 replies to this topic

[Nik Van Rhijn]

We have about 140k registered here,probably 50k are actually interested in the lore - and each one has there own ideas on how BT "should" have played out. The devs have made it very clear that they have no intention of re-writing any major events and they control where and who we fight. In other words the planets we fight over are those that are not mentioned in the lore and have no major importance. There is no way a large gaming clan can take over multiple planets and end up destroying a major house etc. This is not a sandbox for people to play and do as they like a la Eve.

[CCC Dober]

Heh, I can very well imagine what would happen today if you gave those books to the ascending MWs xDDD

They've been spoiled by so many spectacular movies that BT just doesn't seem too special in comparison. The transformers movies come to mind here and they are miles ahead in the wow-department compared to what I have read in the books. The Clan Elementals seem rather shallow compared to the Emperor's Finest, the Space Marines or things like Marvel's Iron man and the spacecraft have been trumped by Starwars and the likes long before. Unfortunately there is not much the BT universe has on the rest of the competition. It is a rich universe, no doubt, but it has aged considerably. So with all that in mind, it is just common sense to focus on the strengths and build on them. It simply isn't enough to focus on the IS and limit the scope, that would be counter-productive. In fact, I believe the Dark Ages only work out for WH40K because the technology was so advanced that it doesn't really matter. Most of that stuff is so far out of reach, whereas the stuff necessary to produce Mechs and Elementals is basically around the corner (in comparison). Just look at some body builders or the first industrial exo skeletons. It's all there, nothing new. This universe (BattleTech) desperately needs reinvention/innovations in the presence of its seemingly tireless competition.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

I understand what you are saying.

Though I have to say I disagree.

Don't fix what isn't broken. Especialy since the B-tech universe is broken intentionally ;P.

[Sychodemus]

Badfinger, on 11 June 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

Why not start where LORE left off? New stories, New Canon, New Machines, New Technology, a leap in to the mega future!

Well, the lore left off in 3139.... give it a few months it'll be 3150 in no time.

[MarauderDeuce]

Alright, I've not read everything in this thread but here's my 2 answers.

• NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO!!!
  In terms of the game in general leave the history to stand as it stands and we simply do our little bit as part of that history.
  
• But perhaps - I'm not 100% certain but I get the feeling that the different servers may be at least somewhat autonomous - this whole migrating between servers thing. So why not have a server on which you start at a certain date and divide the players between clan and IS and have them fight out the invasion based on rules set by the DMs of the server. It doesn't have to affect the official game on other servers.
  Alternately forget the clans entirely and fight out your 4th/5th succession wars.

[Badfinger]

Adrienne Vorton, on 11 June 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

i think some ppl here are just jealous that many ppl here know things they don´t have a clue of... so they cry for a "lore yet to be written", so they don´t have to read all the good stuff up

i wanna play mechwarrior in the universe that i got to love, the reason why i NEVER touched something like dark ages or what ever... sure it has mechs, but that´s not the only thing that makes BT BT and MW MW... gods, i want a new P&P campaign

BTW: nice collection up there now I AM jealous

That's all good for you. But what about another decade from now, When all the old stories have been run to death? BT is coming alive again and It will take new stories from us to pass the BT Legacy on to our grand kids, like they were passed on to us. (Well, not me so much as I was Older when this all began). To them stuff written now will be old Lore and the lore you love will not be forgotten. I for one want BT and MW to be alive in the next century, not just last another decade!

[Adrienne Vorton]

CCC Dober, i hear what you say...but i disagree in many ways...to point one out: one thing that gives the BT universe it´s charme IS the lowtech-scifi...that it´s not a high-scifi or what ever game like star trek and kind alike...its wartechnology is not thus far from nowadays, the politics are not too far from ours and all that... dark ages bombed the BTUniverse into medievil levels, and that failed...i think pushing the techlevel too much would have a similar effect.

if ppl like spacemarines more than battlearmors and mechs, fine...there are plenty of WH40K games...oh, damn...the MMO just died

[Dragon Lady]

Lt muffins, on 10 June 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Personally I see no reason to change the timeline, sure there is many things that i would want changed.

But remember that BATTLETECH is BATTLETECH no matter how you look at it.

I admit I hate the jihad and the dark age era with a vengeance.

If we are to change the timeline we would need to create another name for the universe as it would no longer be the battletech proper that we know.

[denial mode]What is this Jihad and Dark Age you speak of? The official timeline of the Inner Sphere ended in 3057.[/denial mode]

Personally, my preferred eras 3rd and 4th Succession Wars. If we were able to reshape the Inner Sphere in this game, this is where I'd prefer to start.

Edited by Dragon Lady, 11 June 2012 - 05:05 AM.

[Amarus Cameron]

CCC Dober, on 11 June 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Heh, I can very well imagine what would happen today if you gave those books to the ascending MWs xDDD

They've been spoiled by so many spectacular movies that BT just doesn't seem too special in comparison. The transformers movies come to mind here and they are miles ahead in the wow-department compared to what I have read in the books. The Clan Elementals seem rather shallow compared to the Emperor's Finest, the Space Marines or things like Marvel's Iron man and the spacecraft have been trumped by Starwars and the likes long before. Unfortunately there is not much the BT universe has on the rest of the competition. It is a rich universe, no doubt, but it has aged considerably. So with all that in mind, it is just common sense to focus on the strengths and build on them. It simply isn't enough to focus on the IS and limit the scope, that would be counter-productive. In fact, I believe the Dark Ages only work out for WH40K because the technology was so advanced that it doesn't really matter. Most of that stuff is so far out of reach, whereas the stuff necessary to produce Mechs and Elementals is basically around the corner (in comparison). Just look at some body builders or the first industrial exo skeletons. It's all there, nothing new. This universe (BattleTech) desperately needs reinvention/innovations in the presence of its seemingly tireless competition.

I can see why you may want a tech boost, but that would undermine a lot of the reasons why things were as they were in the story. It was a psudo-feudal society able to be controlled by a lack of technology even by the standards of the 1980's and 1990's. They had massive far flung stellar empires, but the everyday people lived in riches at our level and then some, or in poverty at a 1930's tech level. How else do you control masses of people but to put them beneath the heel. (this is where I spout off my pro-clan agenda, saying that the most insignifigant clansman lived like a king compared to spheroids) Regardless even if we updated the tech, someone always thinks their storyline is better, and we can never agree on what should be or what should have been, corners were cut by FASA when money was low, but that still does not mean the story was wrong or bad (except for Prince Archon God King Emperor Pope Precentor-Martial You Know Who) it just is, and any re-write of any canon (sans the expulsion of far country...because...DAFAQ?) would be vehemently opposed by myself and I am sure many others. I like Battletech, I do not want a re-write, why not just give the original story another run?

And for the record, I am stilled awed by Elementals, anyone who is not is simply looking at the suit, its the men inside that are the beasts. Take Tony Stark out of his Iron Man suits and he is a (billionare playboy philanthropist) guy with a heart problem, any Smoke Jaguar elemental would refuse to fight him because of his weakness. Put him in the suit, and I bet a trained elemental could still take him because at the end of the day Clansmen are warriors and he is an amateur. I think that is what gets me about the story is all the culture and politics. I love the fights but I love the human elements as well. Aiden growing up in sibko, Justin Allard as a double agent, Clan Smoke Jaguar fighting for their lives in the Dinju Pass, the real human elements of the story, the triumph, the tears, the failures that burn so brightly. I want my battletech because it is better, regardless of anything new that could be made nothing will take the place of what is still in my opinion the best sci-fi universe ever created.

Edited by Amarus Cameron, 11 June 2012 - 05:10 AM.

[CCC Dober]

@Adrienne

LOL WH/40K never dies, it is as persistent as BT for that matter

As for BT, I'd think the IS and the Clans could profit from an escalating research process. When it happened in canon, it was an incredibly slow process and I think that fact alone hampered development of a more varied player base and story. It catered more to the purists that seemed content to keep things as they are. Now look where that led the BT universe. We are back at the beginning because it didn't work. So by my reckoning it is about time to let loose and have both sides develop and field technology at a more rapid pace.

Imagine the constant back and forth when new technologies give either side an advantage only to be countered by the next one. All the while our options expand and allow for way more strategies and tactics than you can shake a stick at. I think the Clans were a blessing in that they brought fresh air into the IS. They just needed a timely counter in terms of technology and that didn't happen, instead their tech got copied and bastardized, which basically inhibited further development. At least that much has become obvious to me.

Technological restraint hasn't done anything to help BT out of stagnation, rather the opposite. There are references in the novels where lost starleague knowledge has been recovered and put to good use. These were the golden times more or less, but it is easy to forget how they came about, when taken for granted: technological progress - that's the key.

@Amarus

How would you give the original story another run without rewriting it?

Edited by CCC Dober, 11 June 2012 - 05:18 AM.

[Sychodemus]

Badfinger, on 11 June 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

That's all good for you. But what about another decade from now, When all the old stories have been run to death? BT is coming alive again and It will take new stories from us to pass the BT Legacy on to our grand kids, like they were passed on to us. (Well, not me so much as I was Older when this all began). To them stuff written now will be old Lore and the lore you love will not be forgotten. I for one want BT and MW to be alive in the next century, not just last another decade!

Don't worry there will be new stories. Some will push the game into the future and many will flesh out the past. But the "golden age" of Battletech will always be just that. Nothing is ever going to take that away from the 3025 era (particularly, though the later eras will retain their standing as well.) That isn't to say that the new stories won't be memorable and have a charm all their own, because I am sure they will. Believe it or not, there are some people that like the Jihad and Dark Ages. Battletech is one of very few settings in which its gameplay is not limited to the "Now."

[Korbyn McColl]

I wouldn't be in favor of a total rewrite, but I do want the devs to take some liberties with "canon". This isn't a game based on a series of books. This is a game based on BattleTech/Mechwarrior. The novels are also based on BattleTech/Mechwarrior. If there's any real canon, in my mind, it lies in the sourcebooks for the game itself, not in the novels. If the novels can be fit in neatly without hampering the enjoyment factor of the game, great! Otherwise, they should be disregarded.

Just my two c-bills.

[CCC Dober]

Devil Man, on 11 June 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

I wouldn't be in favor of a total rewrite, but I do want the devs to take some liberties with "canon". This isn't a game based on a series of books. This is a game based on BattleTech/Mechwarrior. The novels are also based on BattleTech/Mechwarrior. If there's any real canon, in my mind, it lies in the sourcebooks for the game itself, not in the novels. If the novels can be fit in neatly without hampering the enjoyment factor of the game, great! Otherwise, they should be disregarded.

Just my two c-bills.

Why would you place your 'trust' into something that has changed on a constant basis, such as sourcebooks?
The novels came out, remained unchanged and were more coherent at any rate. If anything, you got it backwards and I think you should give them more credit. They are at least on par with the sourcebooks and not less important than you make them out to be. When all is said and done, neither books nor tabletop, nor sourcebooks will attract the new blood. It's the combination of all that makes the universe what it is. You can try to ignore the preceding MW/MC games if you want, but times have changed and you do so at your own risk. They are easily as, if not even more, important as all the other ingredients that make the BT universe.

Edited by CCC Dober, 11 June 2012 - 05:44 AM.

[Suskis]

the Clans should have never come back. Level 2 technology is what ruined the game for me. so, all we need to rewrite is: "Kerensky and his men never came back".

[Sychodemus]

Sourcebooks trump novels simply because of artistic license. However, with a few notable exceptions, most BT novels are pretty much in line with the game canon because the authors worked in-house, usually on the BT sourcebooks.

[BanditRaptor]

CCC Dober, on 11 June 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

The transformers movies come to mind here and they are miles ahead in the wow-department compared to what I have read in the books.

Man, I'm not going to argue my point yet again because I'm sure I've said everything I've needed to say already, but there's no better way to cheese off a transformers fan than to imply there's anything good about the micheal bay movies.


The bayformers are to transformers fans what the dark age is to battletech fans.

Edited by BeakieHelmet, 11 June 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[CCC Dober]

C'mon, I'm not fan-boying here, even you can see that. There's plenty of competition out there and our beloved BT universe simply has a hard time to keep up, unless it isn't presented in an overly spectacular manner. That is just to keep up. That's not a recipe for growth and I think it has been agreed on that growth is what we need. So what is the essence of all this: BT/MW needs to outdo the competition in the wow-department once again. Is that possible? Hell yeah it is!

[Sychodemus]

See, "wow" and "growth" are far too subjective (or suggestive if your mind goes that way) to be really constructive.

Oh... and Battletech scoffs at modern game mechanics. It's like a gargantuan chunk or ferro-steel just sitting there, daring you to make fun of its shoes. It doesn't need to be the flashy one, it prefers to be the lumbering one in the trenches with all the muck and gore.

It's even let its likeness be used on those computator thingamahjigs, but it doesn't care. It is the honey badger of mecha franchises.

[Tremor]

No

[Threat Doc]

Okay, super die-hard fan, here. I've been playing since early 1985, having picked up the box set in November 1984, and I despise the Clans, hate the idea of them. That being said, I would love the opportunity, if there were proper controls set in place for live-pilots playing the Clans (in the way of population, Zellbrigen, and the actual Clan rules), and keeping those events that absolutely can NOT be changed, to rewrite the Clan invasion, and beyond.

In all absolute truth, if PGI busted the time-line back to about 3020 - 3025, my heart would not be broken.