58 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

I actually think they need a small buff still.

[Kattspya]

sokitumi, on 19 July 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

There was absolutely no need to take SRM's up a whopping 33% more damage (1.5 + 0.5). They already hit really hard at 1.5, the problem was always the sniper meta just being better than running in for a brawl.

While simultaneously nerfing the snipers with the heat multiplier... dude opts to go nuclear on them... instead of doing something like just reducing the srm heat, or adding incrementally small dmg such as, 0.1 at a step..

So ridiculously bad it's almost funny. And I'm sorry but you people who are so happy about SRM's being in their current state are really the same side of the same coin as PPC stalker pilots.

I agree that the SRMs are OP at the moment but that is where they have to be to even put a dent in PPC sniping. If pulses, flamers and maybe some ACs were viable brawling weapons then they can dial down the SRMs.

EDIT: I'm not talking about numbers but they seem to be bugged to hit larger chassis much harder. A medium might take more volleys than an assault for less damage.

Edited by Kattspya, 19 July 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[sokitumi]

Kaldor, on 19 July 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

I just dont know what to say. Too much fail.

They never hit hard at 1.5. Ever. At 2.0 they are just right, excepting roughly 25% of missiles just miss due to hit registration fails.

Snipers are not nerfed. The 2 PPC/gauss builds are just fine. 4 PPCs are perfectly viable for a intelligent player.

Unless your one of those guys thats crying because your precious sniper meta game is not as viable as it once was because the brawlers actually have some teeth now?

Look I'm not seeking a flame war here. I'm all for brawling matches. Is it 'crying' to point out that a 60+ brawling alpha SUDDENLY added at the same as heat multiplier, is just bad application of game theory adjustment. There's no control group to gauge whether a or b was effective at nerfing sniper builds.

4xSRM6, which is viable on a lot of mechs besides splatcats, does 48 dmg, now add in whatever other weaps you can slap on whatever and you're looking at cored anything in 2 shots... How is that balanced?

[AvatarofWhat]

sokitumi, on 19 July 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Look I'm not seeking a flame war here. I'm all for brawling matches. Is it 'crying' to point out that a 60+ brawling alpha SUDDENLY added at the same as heat multiplier, is just bad application of game theory adjustment. There's no control group to gauge whether a or b was effective at nerfing sniper builds.

4xSRM6, which is viable on a lot of mechs besides splatcats, does 48 dmg, now add in whatever other weaps you can slap on whatever and you're looking at cored anything in 2 shots... How is that balanced?

1st, SRM-6 also has an alpha penalty.
2nd, that 48 damage is spread out over most of the mech and about a quarter of those missiles aren't even registering, your not coring anything in 2 shots unless you are facehugging a non-moving jenner.
3rd 270 meter max range... if you want to miss with over half the missiles
4th 2PPC and 1 gauss builds can still core almost any mech in 3 shots from 540 meters with no penalties... double the max range of srms...

I'm sorry but this change was not only right, it was completely necessary. Since the patch I've seen more variety then I've seen in a long time. People are still running a lot of snipers, but now brawlers can actually do something. You talk about snipers like they've been horribly nerfed when in reality they have been given a small disadvantage... if they want to run pure 4 ppc builds.(fire 2 ppc wait .5sec, fire the other 2?) I'm still kicking *** in my sniping stalker-3f but now the other half of my mechbay can come out of retirement.

[Kaldor]

sokitumi, on 19 July 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Look I'm not seeking a flame war here. I'm all for brawling matches. Is it 'crying' to point out that a 60+ brawling alpha SUDDENLY added at the same as heat multiplier, is just bad application of game theory adjustment. There's no control group to gauge whether a or b was effective at nerfing sniper builds.

4xSRM6, which is viable on a lot of mechs besides splatcats, does 48 dmg, now add in whatever other weaps you can slap on whatever and you're looking at cored anything in 2 shots... How is that balanced?

First of all, flame on man. Dont be afraid to get a warning from the mods.

They added 3 damage to an SRM6 launcher. A weapon that requires a fair amount of skill to use, is heavily range limited, spreads damage around alot and requires you get pretty fricking close to your target.

You also act like they took the damage from 0 to 2, where all the sudden these huge alphas just came out of nowhere. Well they did kind of because SRMs were so bad that most players were just using SSRMs in place of them.

There are actually only a handful of mechs that can run 4+ SRM6s. 2 or 3 is far more common. You havent even looked into adding Artemis to actually make the SRM6 a little more effective. Or boating penalties.

Lots of different viable playstyles are a good thing. Unless you prefer the gameplay of the last 6 months? I know my unit did. We lost at least 50% of our player base to the outstanding implementation of HerpDerpECM and SuperDuperPPCAlphaSniperWarrior:Online.

[Davoke]

Don't complain, back in the day SRM's did 2.5 damage. So stop yer whinin.

Also, SRM's were beasts in TT, and beasts in MechWarrior4. In TT you could mount upwards of 10 SRM racks on a mech, and in MW4 you could do the same with 4's on some missile boat mechs. Teh horrur.

Edited by Davoke, 19 July 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[3rdworld]

sokitumi, on 19 July 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Look I'm not seeking a flame war here. I'm all for brawling matches. Is it 'crying' to point out that a 60+ brawling alpha SUDDENLY added at the same as heat multiplier, is just bad application of game theory adjustment. There's no control group to gauge whether a or b was effective at nerfing sniper builds.

4xSRM6, which is viable on a lot of mechs besides splatcats, does 48 dmg, now add in whatever other weaps you can slap on whatever and you're looking at cored anything in 2 shots... How is that balanced?

Because chances are you will never get close enough to me.

[Karl Streiger]

@oneeye jack. we don't have to argue about that.
I didn't said that this combination is op. its powerful maybe a little to poweful but your arguments about its drawbacks are not helpful that Jaeger has a adequate first strike ability with its pep using terrain or as bodyguard for slow assault or support units doesn't need high sustained rate at long range.
if necessary it can deliver a 68 alpha at ranges between 90 and 200m
SRM pattern is tight enough for that.

the srms alone should not be used for brawling but to finish the target when closing
Its a perfect mech for my playstyle my problem was simply I couldn't lock because of ecm and i didn't recognized that version before. at control of a slower cent however i did not have any chance.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

First time in a while I've been able to use my 3xSRM6 Centurion. I chose to chain fire them to help with the hit detection.

I felt it was pretty effective. The best part was when I'd get in close to an LRM boat.

It's not perfect though. And I don't think I was going up against anyone I'd call highly skilled when I played.

[Rippthrough]

Davoke, on 19 July 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Don't complain, back in the day SRM's did 2.5 damage.

Multiplied by 1-4 or so depending where they hit due to splash...

They're still nowhere near the power of alpha sniping builds, but at least they're worth trying now.

Edited by Rippthrough, 19 July 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[Dagger6T6]

hey, the mob has spoken... and they were given what they want
http://mwomercs.com/...age__mode__show

[Bagheera]

sokitumi, on 19 July 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

There was absolutely no need to take SRM's up a whopping 33% more damage (1.5 + 0.5). They already hit really hard at 1.5, the problem was always the sniper meta just being better than running in for a brawl.

Um, yes, there was. SRM hit detection was, and still is broken. 2.0 damage is a placeholder temporary fix for that which we pretty much unanimously voted in. When hit detection is fixed, the damage number will be tuned accordingly. It's important to remember that anyone using SRMs is not necessarily getting the full benefit of their damage - even when all missiles appear to hit.

Of course expect a period of SRMaggedon when hit detection works but before damage is retuned. Right now is a good benchmark for SRMs - pack a punch but not the same ludicrously OP 2.5 dmg + broken splash mechanic that we had back in the day.

"Sniper meta" is only empirically better against bad players who can't cross a map without using the largest patches of open ground. I can see where you are going with the "change one thing at a time" approach to balance, and that would have been preferable. Thing is though that we already knew that the heat scale change alone (including the incoming PPC/ERPPC fix on the 30th) was not enough of a change to push people away from high-alpha sniper camping. We knew it, PGI knew it, and so they offered us an olive branch in the form of a stop-gap fix for SRMs.

Better than nothing.

Edited by Bagheera, 19 July 2013 - 07:14 AM.

[Braggart]

wait a second. Are people complaining that the premier brawling weapon is actually able to win a brawl.


SRMS are not over powered. SRMS are doing their job, which is supppose to give a huge advantage to anyone taking them and being able to get within 270 Meters of the enemy. If someone takes 6 of them, they should win a brawl. Because they have no other options, medium and long range combat are off the table. People using lasers and ppcs/gauss/acs can all brutally damage a SRM brawler, thats the price for getting into a brawl with a mech that was designed for it. Just like you will lose a sniping competition against mechs that are designed for it.

If you take virtually any other weapon in the game, your effective range is greater than an SRM. SRMS are suppose to dominate in close combat, which at 1.5 damage they dont even come close, and at 2.0 they are decent.

Edited by Braggart, 19 July 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

srms might be a shade to powerfull now but not by much, and really the only ones that suffer it full in the face are those that stand still.

Certainly 1.5 was to to weak, I don't think lowering the damage is the key, maybe lower the amount of srm4 and 6's you can alpha before you get hit with the heat penalty

24 missiles at point blank is 48 damage which is what some are shooting off its no way as close to deadly as the AC40's were.

When I saw the weapon/heat penalties for boating I did think uhoh when I saw how many launchers you could use, so maybe reducing the number is that little tweak to bring them inline

[Errinovar]

Not sure if they are overpowered or not, but they sure took my cent A from something I only kept due to sentimental reasons to something I love to play. In fact I just had my personal best round of any mech I have piloted doing 968 damage, 4 kills, and 3 assists. I love them when dealing with anything the size of a hunchy on up, but have a heck of a time hitting lights with any accuracy. On the flip side, it seems like srms eat catapults from the front like nothing else.. not sure if its because of the large cockpit with the spread or not, but 3 or 4 shots to the front seems to be the magic number for me.

[Braggart]

Errinovar, on 19 July 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Not sure if they are overpowered or not, but they sure took my cent A from something I only kept due to sentimental reasons to something I love to play. In fact I just had my personal best round of any mech I have piloted doing 968 damage, 4 kills, and 3 assists. I love them when dealing with anything the size of a hunchy on up, but have a heck of a time hitting lights with any accuracy. On the flip side, it seems like srms eat catapults from the front like nothing else.. not sure if its because of the large cockpit with the spread or not, but 3 or 4 shots to the front seems to be the magic number for me.

High damage because it spreads around a lot more than pinpoint ppcs strikes. So yes, not hard at all to have massive games using SRMS. The high damage number doesnt mean overpowered though. The raw damage from SRMS makes up for the fact you have little control over what they hit unlike other weapons.

[Dagger6T6]

I know I'm certainly seeing more Cents, Hunchies, and Trenchbuckets now that SRMs are a more viable option on the battlefield, and in my opinion that is a good thing.

[arghmace]

SRM's are decent now. If their damage is lowered after fixing hit issues, they will be useless again. I really hope that Paul won't nerf their damage again.

[General Taskeen]

Until they are ripple fire, rather than blobs of front loaded damage missiles, they won't ever be "right." People pack on as much as they can, on any Mech for the sole purpose of front loaded damage srms. And yes, it is easy, because I do it to.

[Braggart]

General Taskeen, on 19 July 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Until they are ripple fire, rather than blobs of front loaded damage missiles, they won't ever be "right." People pack on as much as they can, on any Mech for the sole purpose of front loaded damage srms. And yes, it is easy, because I do it to.

obviously the best choice is always going to be putting as many on a mech as you can. That is how it goes with every weapon in the game. that frontloaded damage is still a sneeze compared to what ppcs/gauss/ac20s do. You can shield yourself well from missiles and spread that damage around your mech very easily, but the other weapons are much tougher to get spread around.