419 replies to this topic

[Jestun]

Tora Shin, on 30 July 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Agreed. Base capping is really annoying and downright boring. The least you can do is make a new game mode without it.

Yeah, because "hunt the last powered-down light mech" would be a fantastic game mode!

[MustrumRidcully]

JingleHell, on 03 August 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

The problem is, with matchmaking being a mess, Big Stompy Robot Meatgrinder totally screws half the mechs in the game. So yeah, something that forces a little bit of tactical flexibility is a good thing until and unless we get a separate game mode for all-out heavy+ brawling.

If this wasn't a Battletech derived game, there would probably be solutions to this. You could not harmstrung "light" mechs as much in firepower as they are and make it really primarily a armor as defense vs speed as defense thing. But things are as they are...

But the way I see it - the current system isn't really any better. Yes, you can play light mechs, but the end result of the "light game" is very often a boring match. While the goal - make lights relevant - is important and needs to be achieved - it must be achieved in a manner that's interesting for everyone.

I almost think Conquest got that better than Assault. You have multiple objectives to secure.
I wonder if the game doesn'T suffer from weapons having to long of a range, actually, at least for the mech speeds involved and the size of maps. On many maps, you cover a large area on it by your weapon's range, which means hiding from the enemy by moving different routes is very difficult. Except on large maps - but there the mechs are often too slow moving, if you want to react to anything, you will be too late on anything but a fast light, but even then, you're not really "timely". Alpine Jogging is the typical example of that.

[Spawnsalot]

Jestun, on 04 August 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Yeah, because "hunt the last powered-down light mech" would be a fantastic game mode!

Because we couldn't report them for griefing or anything could we?

The amount of tears from light cap-enthusiasts trying to ruin another game mode because no-one else plays theirs who suddenly find themselves with warnings and/or bans would be hilarious.

[Jestun]

Spawnsalot, on 04 August 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

Because we couldn't report them for griefing or anything could we?

The amount of tears from light cap-enthusiasts trying to ruin another game mode because no-one else plays theirs who suddenly find themselves with warnings and/or bans would be hilarious.

Pressing P is griefing?

If that's the case, surely PGI would disable P?

[Spawnsalot]

Going into a TDM-styled match with the specific intent of hiding in an ECM light, drawing the match out for the duration and not fighting, purely to annoy the other players in the match is griefing.

You and I both know that's what you're talking about so please, stop trying to be a smartass and let's try and have an intelligent discussion about the topic.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yeah, because "hunt the last powered-down light mech" would be a fantastic game mode!

Except the game has a timer. So when the timer runs out whoever has the most kills wins. And if thats tied, the winner would be the team that did the most damage divided by tonnage.

[Jestun]

Spawnsalot, on 04 August 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

Going into a TDM-styled match with the specific intent of hiding in an ECM light, drawing the match out for the duration and not fighting, purely to annoy the other players in the match is griefing.

You and I both know that's what you're talking about so please, stop trying to be a smartass and let's try and have an intelligent discussion about the topic.

Unless the rules state that the last 2 mechs must stand in front of each other in plain sight while fighting I don't see hiding and setting up an ambush (which can only be sprung when the enemy actually walks past) a "griefing".

Especially not if it's a lighter mech hiding from a heavier mech.


Trying to stay alive as griefing? No. In TDM the only way to win is to survive, it is not griefing to try to saty alive and attack when you have the advantage.

[IceSerpent]

Khobai, on 04 August 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Except the game has a timer. So when the timer runs out whoever has the most kills wins. And if thats tied, the winner would be the team that did the most damage divided by tonnage.

The whole problem is that nobody wants to wait for the timer to run out every match.

[Jestun]

IceSerpent, on 04 August 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

The whole problem is that nobody wants to wait for the timer to run out every match.

Good thing PGI was smart enough to add non-deathmatch victory conditions then.

[The Wolfpack75]

JingleHell, on 03 August 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Don't forget the totally valid tactic of starting a cap to get the enemy into a conga line that's easier to beat down.

Completely agree, capping is a valid tactic as a way to split a team or to direct them back towards their camp or to get them to run to your base... It is one of two possible objectives for winning the match. You can either cap OR destroy mechs.

I don't play MWO for mindless shoot and destroy, I play it for the team tactics of defense and offense - I approach Assault like Capture the Flag or King of the Hill or Domination (to use a few Halo/COD terms, but I believe in Battlefield there were similar game types [Rush?]). You are required to defend your base while also engaging the enemy, you lose your base and you lose your game.

I am glad this is not Team Deathmatch, that it isn't a typical FPS where all I need to do is kill the enemy X number of times or eliminate them, etc. Perhaps one day a team deathmatch version of assault will be created to appease the vocal minority of people who can not adapt. But considering that CW will most likely be a combination of mech elimination AND objectives I don't understand the absolutely vehement hatred people express for Assault and yet continue to play.

If I was interested in playing a game but the only match type they had required that I plant a bomb or eliminate the enemy I wouldn't play the game and expect that the dev's and community conform to my play style. I wouldn't play "plant the bomb" and then tell the developers that they should remove the bomb so I can just shoot people. Either I would adapt to the tactic or I wouldn't play.

[Zylo]

John Decker, on 03 August 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

If I play to make other's game experience miserable, then I'm a troll fit to be banned, but since it's part of the game mechanic It's walking right on the line of exploiting and griefing. Awesome troll activity.

You haven't seen the topics complaining about teams with too many assaults have you? Capping isn't the only thing that "makes other's game experience miserable".

[Joseph Mallan]

The objective is to win. I will take a win anyway I can. If you get mad, that's not my problem. I have been capped, and crushed with 0 complaints. Be a good sport or get out of gaming.

[Zylo]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 August 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

The objective is to win. I will take a win anyway I can. If you get mad, that's not my problem. I have been capped, and crushed with 0 complaints. Be a good sport or get out of gaming.

The whiners seem to forget that capping is a valid win condition just like taking all assaults and killing all enemy mechs is a valid win condition.

[Coralld]

Lets see, cap FTW, or get completely and utterly stomped by Steiner death ball? That's a tough choice.

Edited by Coralld, 04 August 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[John Decker]

Zylo, on 04 August 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

The whiners seem to forget that capping is a valid win condition just like taking all assaults and killing all enemy mechs is a valid win condition.

The Lunkhead status quo supporters seem to forget that the object of the game is an assault. I don't see how the current cap conditions qualify as a valid win option during an assault. Perhaps if our base gave us some pertinent bonus and that bonus was lessened as it was being capped, then I could see it. Or perhaps if there was some condition that had to be fullfilled so that the base became 'open' to capping. For example the dropship being pushed out of orbit etc....then I would see some drama that would apply in the situation. But running a 150kph mech around the map until you get a shot at the cap doesnt strike me as an assault victory condition.

[-Natural Selection-]

Im sorry, for the guys saying power down should be bannable or is trolling/griefing. Didnt PGI give you the tool to cover this? Or is "beagle active probe" not working at the moment?

[Spawnsalot]

Read the whole conversation please Dozier, no one has an issue with powering down for an ambush or whatever mid match.

The issue is people tooling up intentionally to ruin everyone's fun by hiding in a corner of a map and waiting for the timer to run down.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Aeten, on 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm sure you've been in a battle where your tonnage-heavy team is just stomping the **** out of some hapless noobs, when suddenly 2-4 enemy lights jump on your cap and you find yourselves utterly screwed. It probably happened on Alpine.

Except that those enemy lights have screwed themselves as well.

How? They won after all, won't they be rewarded???

NOT AT ALL!

Everyone loses. You get some points for damage and kills, but ultimately it's just not that much. The light mechs get base victory points and not much more. You probably never even see each other. What does this add to the game? In the current state of things, especially on big maps like Alpine, there is no risk and no reward for lights to cap. No one can oppose them, but at the same time, they only get a hollow victory.

This also made me completely give up any chance of buying the $20 Phoenix package just to receive a ****** locust. 20 tons with terrible hardpoints and a small, undercooling engine is just pointless. It would only be good for capping, which, is rather pointless.

But your post in itself holds the perfect example why the lights possibly went for cap: Because people (undeliberately) exploit the absence of a tonnage limit. And this was true as well as back in June as it is still true.

The question I'd ask myself here is: Do those capping lights still get more than they had when they LOST THE MATCH?

[-Natural Selection-]

Spawnsalot, on 10 August 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

Read the whole conversation please Dozier, no one has an issue with powering down for an ambush or whatever mid match.

The issue is people tooling up intentionally to ruin everyone's fun by hiding in a corner of a map and waiting for the timer to run down.

I read the whole post ty. Im not saying I agree with it buut I have a feeling you will see ALOT more of it. You are given 3 win conditions. By cap, by time, and by death. With the old cap timer a last living player could possibly creep around and maybe squeek a cap win. However now that this option has been removed by the time it takes to cap.

The timer was increased so that basicly you could force the game into a kill only situation. And as I said, there is BAP that you could install to help you in finding these people. And maybe a little bigger engine to not be such a boat anchor. But that dosent fit into most peoples "one shot" kill machines. It might also require you to pay a little more attention to the area the person was seen last, and actually do some walking around.


But instead of "griefing" the guy using the P button he was given, not using equipment provided to help you find him. How about you just "beg" as normal for them to make a powered down or idol unit show on map after 1 minute? This function has been in some games for a long time.

How about you think about things and offer solutions/alternatives for others playstyle vs just getting rid of every damn person who dont run in your face and allow you to kill. Ohh wait you are kinda doing that already...

By the time this game is done, it will be perfecly tweeked for the 10 people who wanted everything their way. I hope you enjoy it. geez

Edited by Dozier, 10 August 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[Spawnsalot]

Ah. I think I see the issue here, I'm not advocating we remove the existing game modes - I'm advocating a *more* game modes, specifically in this instance one that has been asked for almost from the start.

We then have people coming and saying rubbish like, "If they put TDM in I'm going to spend every match I can powered down in some remote corner where nobody can find me." because people have the sheer audacity to want to play a game mode that revolves purely around combat.

That would be counted as griefing, wouldn't you agree?


P.S. I could be wrong but it looks like you're insinuating I play nothing but that "PPC/Gauss assaults" crap. Rest assured I don't enjoy that playstyle at all - it's dull and doesn't make for very interesting battles. I'm also currently mastering my Commando's.