419 replies to this topic

[Captain Stiffy]

This topic is more pertinent than ever.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Zylo, on 04 August 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

The whiners seem to forget that capping is a valid win condition just like taking all assaults and killing all enemy mechs is a valid win condition.

They don't forget...they just don't want to have to strategize or play more than a single dimension. That takes to much effort apparently. The mindless ezmode crowd is not interested in bases, strategies, role warfare or anything that requires them to think. Sad really. But w/out them the hawkens and cods of the world would be out of business.

[Bounty Dogg]

Viktor Drake, on 21 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Here is the thing. A base rush is not outsmarting your enemy. It is about who gets to the base fastest, no more, no less. Additionally a base cap happens so fast, especially if there are more than one mech sitting on the base that even if a team wants to, it can't make it back to the base to defend it. Additionally, leaving people to defend the base is not an option because if you happen to run into the entire enemy team, your toast in a 4 vs 8 or 6 vs 8 situaton.

So what are you suppose to do. You manuver and hope that the enemy OR EVEN YOUR OWN DAMN TEAM doesn't rush to base to cap.

Also I am not saying that base capping is a bad thing or needs to be removed but by god it needs to be a hell of alot more difficult to do than it is now. It should be hard to capture a base and take a team, not just one or two light mechs base rushing early in the match. There needs to be time for a team to send people back to base to defend.

In the end every match should be a slugfest even if one team wins by capping, I mean that is what we are all here for, to engage in a game centered on mech COMBAT right?

Actually, if the enemy team doesnt figure out how to stop you from capping, either through lights, or others returning to base, then you HAVDE been outsmarted.....because you just lost the match to a perfectly valid tactic.....

[Ghogiel]

Mystere, on 20 July 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

More wins equals better Elo?

Yup.

Unless you are grinding for cbills like some space poor, winning, and ultimately a higher Elo is all that matters. Playing at the higher levels does have it's draw backs though.

[Ngamok]

StaIker, on 03 August 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

Anyone who sees avoiding combat to win by cap as "playing Mechwarrior" has sadly missed the point of the game.

If your sole purpose is to cap to win rather than cap to distract I'd agree. Having a bunch of broskis run to base and then sit on it isn't really fun. But hey, two ways to win right.

[wintersborn]

I only play Assault and never cap unless its tera therma just to end the map asap.

Standing in a square box is sooooooo booooorrrriinnnggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CravenMadness]

Hey guys, here's an idea... ... Every few matches... Turn -left- from the spawn spot, instead of everyone going ******-right... It's amazing how different the matches are...

[Captain Stiffy]

CravenMadness, on 12 October 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Hey guys, here's an idea... ... Every few matches... Turn -left- from the spawn spot, instead of everyone going ******-right... It's amazing how different the matches are...

Agree 100%. Thanks as I have never really had the chance to bring this up but this is a good place for it.

The maps themselves don't really move the teams toward conflict. What effectively happens is that 4-10 minutes are wasted choosing an only somewhat random place on the field to fight.

Unfortunately this is an underlying flaw in the current design though I would like to see something closer to arena-style gameplay in the future.

[Rick Atlastley]

Whether you cap to "win" or do it to distract, it still makes the game boring and frustrating. Most of us came here to shoot things, not stand in a square. What's the point of buying new mechs when they all stand in the square just as well as any other? The people who claim that mediums and lights have no other purpose don't know how to pilot mediums and lights. There are a lot of us who have >2.0 Kill/Death ratios in light mechs and don't resort to capwarrior BS. Learn to pilot and enjoy what is fundamentally a great game with the exception of the capping.

[Lykaon]

Aeten, on 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm sure you've been in a battle where your tonnage-heavy team is just stomping the **** out of some hapless noobs, when suddenly 2-4 enemy lights jump on your cap and you find yourselves utterly screwed. It probably happened on Alpine.

Except that those enemy lights have screwed themselves as well.

How? They won after all, won't they be rewarded???

NOT AT ALL!

Everyone loses. You get some points for damage and kills, but ultimately it's just not that much. The light mechs get base victory points and not much more. You probably never even see each other. What does this add to the game? In the current state of things, especially on big maps like Alpine, there is no risk and no reward for lights to cap. No one can oppose them, but at the same time, they only get a hollow victory.

This also made me completely give up any chance of buying the $20 Phoenix package just to receive a ****** locust. 20 tons with terrible hardpoints and a small, undercooling engine is just pointless. It would only be good for capping, which, is rather pointless.

This is a failing of the rewards system not the light mech pilots that won the match by not playing into the strengths of the enemy assault heavy team.

The moment you allow the enemy to dictate the terms of a battle you may as well pack it in.You have allowed the enemy to play to their strength if you can not match or beat the enemy at their own game you will lose!

So if you see the enemy team is composed of mostly heavy and assault mechs and your team can not match the enemy in a face roll brawl you absolutley should run and cap to win.

Without community warfare what we have now is practice mode for CW.

So I say practice like you will play.

If your enemy is too dim witted to play defencive when they dropped with 8 assault mechs and 4 heavy mechs then make them pay for their mistake and CAP THEM!

Seriously half the maps are so tiny that even assault mechs can RTB before a cap occurs.If a team loses to a cap on River city (day/Night) Canyon,Forest Colony (normal/snow) Or even Frozen City (day/night) they were morons.

Capping is a valid tactic for several reasons.

It will force the enemy to displace some of their forces to deal with the capping unit(s) this pulls mechs off the front lines and improves the odds for your team in the upcoming battle.

By threatening the enemy cap the most likely defenders to return and try and prevent the cap are the enemy fast mechs.This prevents the enemy from using their fast attack units to cap your side and tie up resources away from the main fight by attempting to stop the cap.

If you never actually complete a cap if no defenders arrive then it becomes an empty threat.Always finish a cap if it is advantagious to your team. (feel free to step off cap if your team is obviously winning the brawl)

Possitioning to cap can draw a weaker enemy force into a battle with your stronger force.ie. 4 fast brawlers sneak in the back way and begin capping.The enemy sends it's forces to defend getting drawn out in a thin line that arrives one or two at a time,easily defeated by your ready attacking force.

Only a complete {Dezgra} fights a fight that holds all the advantages for the enemy.

[Nick Makiaveli]

I love how people like to spout off when they've obviously never done what they are talking about and also didn't bother to educate themselves on the subject.

A win by cap gives bonus XP to the whole team (extra bonus for actually capping) as well as a C-bill bonus.

So there is an incentive to do it. Also the OP even said they are winning, have a tonnage advantage, and yet can't manage to process that information and come up with a reason lights would run to cap.

Off the top of my head, I think the XP bonus is 125 for all, and 75 if you assisted in capping. For both Assault and Conquest. I believe it's 6500 C-bills as well. On top of the reward for winning.

I'll be completely honest. In a PUG Assault match the first thing I do is head to the enemy base. Love finding a Discon or AFK player. Otherwise I sit on cap until someone runs me off or I knock a good 3rd off. See if someone runs me off, then I removed at least one mech from the firing line. Sometimes I get multiple lights or mediums, which means you Stand and Deliver types should have an advantage in numbers.

In Conquest, I try to get a quick headstart. Head to the nearest, leave as soon as the mediums show up, then flip any i can find. You do know that you get C-bills for resources right? Losing you get less per resource than a win. Sometimes I wind up the last man standing, and once pulled a 750-748 win.

As to the guy who said he only had a few 10's of millions of C-bills and thought he was poor....dude, when I bought my Jager DD the other day, I had 34,000 C-bills left. And no that wasn't after upgrades, that was the stock mech. I also had sold one of the other 2 Jagers like a {Dezgra}. Not all of us old-timers are Founders, nor do we have hero/champion mechs etc.

One last thought. If you are getting beaten by someone with no tactics, and you call them lame, losers, morons and worse, what does that make you given you lost to them?

Ever read Sun Tzu? No? Didn't think so. Try Machiavelli as well, I hear he has some thoughts on the subject of your enemy being predictable as well....

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Well, here's my question.

If PGI wants to allow wins by cap, then why are they not rewarding wins by cap as if the team that won destroyed all enemy mechs.

If a win is a win, why is winning by cap considered "less valuable" of a win. Frankly this double standard has been hurting the game since they reduced cap victory's payout, and I'm one of the people that would prefer to fight it out instead of racing to the cap.

BUT, this is a very VERY fraking stupid balance decision that has needed a fix for a while. Either reward me for full out gameplay, or take away caps and let us blow the {Scrap} out of eachother. Because either way, you're ******* players off. Atleast if they took away cap points, we'd be making more money for blowing the {Scrap} out of eachother.

[Bounty Dogg]

Spawnsalot, on 04 August 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

Because we couldn't report them for griefing or anything could we?

The amount of tears from light cap-enthusiasts trying to ruin another game mode because no-one else plays theirs who suddenly find themselves with warnings and/or bans would be hilarious.

um....trying not to die is not griefing. Just cust you can't catch him cus he's too fast, but the rest of his team is dead, doesn't make him a griefer......but it does actually point out why Deathmatch is a BAD idea. But, to the thought of this thread, what is he supposed to do? Just come to you to die?

[The pessimistic optimist]

Protect your damn base people its not that hard.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Jade Kitsune, on 13 October 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Well, here's my question.

If PGI wants to allow wins by cap, then why are they not rewarding wins by cap as if the team that won destroyed all enemy mechs.

If a win is a win, why is winning by cap considered "less valuable" of a win. Frankly this double standard has been hurting the game since they reduced cap victory's payout, and I'm one of the people that would prefer to fight it out instead of racing to the cap.

BUT, this is a very VERY fraking stupid balance decision that has needed a fix for a while. Either reward me for full out gameplay, or take away caps and let us blow the {Scrap} out of eachother. Because either way, you're ******* players off. Atleast if they took away cap points, we'd be making more money for blowing the {Scrap} out of eachother.

You do know you can kill 11 of the enemy mechs and then win by cap and come out ahead right? Salvage is usually around 10K or so? Whereas a cap win nets you 6.5K on top of the salvage, not to mention XP as well.

So capping is rewarded. The people who complain are the ones that don't want to work at it, they just want to meet in the middle and play Solaris, or the ones who have ADHD and can't stand the thought of actually guarding the base.

[Joseph Mallan]

Unbound Inferno, on 20 July 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

That may sound good, but in the grounds of assault where the point is killing mechs - which is the best reward there - being cheated from a fight by being capped by a bunch of lights is pathetic.

The Point of Assault in MechWarrior Online is to Capture the Enemy Base and/or to Kill all enemy. The Strategic victory is to capture the base. Which leads to having more stuff (I now have all your R&R) and real estate. Capturing your Base should be worth as Much C-bills as salvaging all your stuff to me.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 October 2013 - 03:33 AM.

[KhanHeir]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

The Point of Assault in MechWarrior Online is to Capture the Enemy Base and/or to Kill all enemy. The Strategic victory is to capture the base. Which leads to having more stuff (I now have all your R&R) and real estate. Capturing your Base should be worth as Much C-bills as salvaging all your stuff to me.

Boy oh, boy are we simple minded and forgetful hmm?


Remember when capping did pay out?

Remember when you had squads of lights with cap modules that ended a match in 30 seconds leaving you bitter and broke hmmmm?

Remember when we asked the pig to fix such a mechanic by reducing the income, thus reducing the temptation hmmm?


I guess it won't matter as soon as DM and TDM are released the populations in our current gametypes will no longer exsist. Then our " muh immersion " golds shall be immersed with themselves.

[Joseph Mallan]

KhanHeir, on 14 October 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

Boy oh, boy are we simple minded and forgetful hmm?


Remember when capping did pay out?

Remember when you had squads of lights with cap modules that ended a match in 30 seconds leaving you bitter and broke hmmmm?

Remember when we asked the pig to fix such a mechanic by reducing the income, thus reducing the temptation hmmm?


I guess it won't matter as soon as DM and TDM are released the populations in our current gametypes will no longer exsist. Then our " muh immersion " golds shall be immersed with themselves.

I remember when (People like)You asked for it to be fixed. I remember arguing to keep as is cause Capping is a part of the victory conditions an everyone has a right to win the way they want. Even that >15% that want to cap. Even when My Assaults are useless to stop them!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 October 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[Spawnsalot]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

The Point of Assault in MechWarrior Online is to Capture the Enemy Base and/or to Kill all enemy. The Strategic victory is to capture the base. Which leads to having more stuff (I now have all your R&R) and real estate. Capturing your Base should be worth as Much C-bills as salvaging all your stuff to me.

Except currently it's not. You do not get any "R&R" or "real estate" nor do you get any masses of cash equivalent to salvage money. There is next to no profit from just capping.

The only "worthwhile" thing you get from it is a win, which has no bearing on the game world outside of your ELO.
And artificially inflating that just means you'll get to a point where you get stomped by players who are much better than you over and over while being carried by your team mates.

When CW comes in sure, I'll probably defend the base with the best of them. Of course if Assault is still there you'll most likely see a sharp rise in base camping and I will most likely be playing a different game mode.

[Bad Andy]

ya i have 40 mechs i dont care about rewards per game rly