419 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

I liked using my Centurion as a Flanker, Cav Mech. I had a few Surprised Atlas kills with a AC10 SRM6 2x ML basic build.

Hellcat420, on 23 July 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

the point of capping is to win.

And take the enemy's stuff.

[Tombstoner]

One Medic Army, on 23 July 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Lights and mediums are irrelevant because people refuse to accept them being good at anything other than capping, and complain bitterly when they can actually fight assault mechs.

When used correctly( flanking for rear armor) lights and mediums can be more deadly ( rear armor to alpha damage ratio) then
heavy/assault who need to punch thorough 90% of a mech armor.

When your in a medium you never engage something heaver that's looking at you. you hide and hope to make it to the next outcrop and flank or hope they shoot the atlas your standing next to correct..... mediums can protect assaults from lights very well.

Edited by Tombstoner, 23 July 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

When used correctly( flanking for rear armor) lights and mediums can be more deadly ( rear armor to alpha damage ratio) then
heavy/assault who need to punch thorough 90% of a mech armor.

Not anymore. My Victor has the firepower of an Atlas-D-DC Brawler, Goes 80kph, has jumpjets, and can easily get behind most mechs. The Victor is the ultimate assault mech.

[Jman5]

You guys can debate about whether it's fun, or fair, or efficient all day, but the bottom line is this:

I will continue base capturing as I see fit. You can either adapt, or continue losing. It's your choice. When the enemy gives me a free win, I will take it and no amount of temper tantrums will get me off that base.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jman5, on 23 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

You guys can debate about whether it's fun, or fair, or efficient all day, but the bottom line is this:

I will continue base capturing as I see fit. You can either adapt, or continue losing. It's your choice. When the enemy gives me a free win, I will take it and no amount of temper tantrums will get me off that base.

Power to you and I hope to stop you every time you try. So continue to bring it!

[Xmith]

Aeten, on 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm sure you've been in a battle where your tonnage-heavy team is just stomping the **** out of some hapless noobs, when suddenly 2-4 enemy lights jump on your cap and you find yourselves utterly screwed. It probably happened on Alpine.

Except that those enemy lights have screwed themselves as well.

How? They won after all, won't they be rewarded???

NOT AT ALL!

Everyone loses. You get some points for damage and kills, but ultimately it's just not that much. The light mechs get base victory points and not much more. You probably never even see each other. What does this add to the game? In the current state of things, especially on big maps like Alpine, there is no risk and no reward for lights to cap. No one can oppose them, but at the same time, they only get a hollow victory.

This also made me completely give up any chance of buying the $20 Phoenix package just to receive a ****** locust. 20 tons with terrible hardpoints and a small, undercooling engine is just pointless. It would only be good for capping, which, is rather pointless.

Aeten, on 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm sure you've been in a battle where your tonnage-heavy team is just stomping the **** out of some hapless noobs, when suddenly 2-4 enemy lights jump on your cap and you find yourselves utterly screwed. It probably happened on Alpine.

Except that those enemy lights have screwed themselves as well.

How? They won after all, won't they be rewarded???

NOT AT ALL!

Everyone loses. You get some points for damage and kills, but ultimately it's just not that much. The light mechs get base victory points and not much more. You probably never even see each other. What does this add to the game? In the current state of things, especially on big maps like Alpine, there is no risk and no reward for lights to cap. No one can oppose them, but at the same time, they only get a hollow victory.

This also made me completely give up any chance of buying the $20 Phoenix package just to receive a ****** locust. 20 tons with terrible hardpoints and a small, undercooling engine is just pointless. It would only be good for capping, which, is rather pointless.

Blame it on ELO. The pilots that cap are only interested in winning. Just like myself, they probably have CBs and GXP to burn.

[John Decker]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 July 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

If you have 6 assaults and 2 heavies, and your enemy is lighter and faster. the best tactic for them to win is to draw you away from your base and then take from you. Nothing stupid in using your strengths to win.

So you would suggest the smart thing for the heavy team would be to wait at their base...then what...will the light team come to to base? Hell no they wont. At least most teams wont. So then what do you have other than a stalemate? That defeats the entire purpose of playing. And that is what this bs does in general. They need to fix the whole dynamic.

[Shadowsword8]

OneEyed Jack, on 20 July 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Because bigger rewards just lead to entire teams actively attempting to dodge the enemy and rush the base. Even the ***** trolls who get their rocks off by telling themselves they are doing anything more than boring people to death with base-rushing would get quickly bored of it when it's all anyone does in 75% or more of matches.

Yes, because being capped 75% of matches still wouldn't be enough for the average player to learn to defend his base. He would come complain here instead...





Damn, I wanted to be mock your post by using sarcasm, but the despressing thing is that what I just said is probably true even with first-degree reading. :/

[Mystere]

John Decker, on 24 July 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

So you would suggest the smart thing for the heavy team would be to wait at their base...

Given that the heavy team presumably does not know the enemy composition, why would they decide to just camp their base at the start? And even then, I can speculate that they will eventually lose patience and decide to start moving away from their base. As someone else has said, many player are just too impatient. That is something that is very much exploitable.

[Desdain]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 July 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Yeah but my debate is a light team shouldn't be dropping against an assault team.

The problem comes down to the fact that if capping takes over CW; you are going to see two teams standing at their starting points not doing anything.

And if 4 YLW destroy an entire side by themselves, there was a major skill discrepancy.

Not if I were in one of those YLWs .

[Joseph Mallan]

John Decker, on 24 July 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

So you would suggest the smart thing for the heavy team would be to wait at their base...then what...will the light team come to to base? Hell no they wont. At least most teams wont. So then what do you have other than a stalemate? That defeats the entire purpose of playing. And that is what this bs does in general. They need to fix the whole dynamic.

What you suggest going out to find the fast guys? Is that any better? a Loss by cap, or a possible draw by playing defense???

[Purlana]

Summary: I drop with 8 Assaults, but your light team should charge into our fire anyway!

Edited by Purlana, 25 July 2013 - 05:42 PM.

[ArmandTulsen]

I'm 86% sure that the reworking of the reward system to favour fighting over capping has dumbed down the player base even more.

There have numerous instances where I kept telling my team, "go for the cap, we can't win the fight." Sure enough, they get their heads blown off one by one when we're outnumbered by 3+.

[JingleHell]

ArmandTulsen, on 25 July 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

I'm 86% sure that the reworking of the reward system to favour fighting over capping has dumbed down the player base even more.

There have numerous instances where I kept telling my team, "go for the cap, we can't win the fight." Sure enough, they get their heads blown off one by one when we're outnumbered by 3+.

Yeah, or those games of ConquestAssault With Slower Caps where the other team is down to one guy with one leg, zero arms, and half a cockpit, and they win because nobody paid attention to what the game mode was.

Slowing down caps doesn't stop cap wins, so that argument of "Timer so we can end it without hunting" is out the window. Rubbing two brain cells together stops caps. Variety and stagnation are, by nature, just a bit mutually exclusive. Stagnation sucks. Stop asking them to take out variety.

[Varth Shenon]

OT
Sometimes when there's no light in my team, people will say "We have no lights, defend?" or something like that and that's what I like about this game.
This game isn't just a shot-here-and-there game, well yeah, maybe some of you think of it like that. This should be included with more "STRATEGY". The commander thing in lance/team is there for a reason. The "CAP" isn't just there for a "What? Lame." comment.
Yes maybe those heavies can defend their base, while the lights do scout and see if there's any enemy coming. "What if there's nobody coming?" Then you can progress to their base with some back-ups, while maintaining your distance from your base in case you missed them. So much strategy you can do with this game.
I hate when people says "What a noob coward team" even he/she is already dead because rushing to enemy pack while the others wait for a good chance to ambush them.
If you don't like CAP, then ask for a deathmatch mode or last man standing or some stuff like that. Don't blame them who do CAP, it's like whining for zombies in MWO.

[Plonky]

The Strange, on 20 July 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

That's the rub right there. People all jump in their assault mechs and then expect the guys that take lights to just come out and die for them. If you are too slow to make it back to base, that's your problem. Personally, I think that lights and mediums should get a cap bonus.

How are light and medium mechs supposed to win against a "tonnage heavy team" except by capping?

The problem is that there are almost two different game modes, depending on which type of mech you play. A light team is at a disadvantage in combat against a heavy team. A heavy team is at a disadvantage in capping against a light team. If light and heavy mechs were encouraged to play together, there wouldn't be such a big problem. But on big maps, heavies can't assist in capping because they're too slow. On small maps, light mechs have a reduced role because scouting and spotting is less important, and it is harder to flank.

I think the key in conquest is to have less capture points, so that heavy mechs can play a role in defending (because each capture point is more important), but to make the maps big enough that a heavy mech can't defend more than one capture point at a time.

For assault, if they keep the current "attack the base" victory condition, there needs to be a reason to defend other than "a light mech might come here". I don't think this can really be done, because assault mechs can only be in one place at a time. Heavy mechs fight in the middle of the map because that's pretty much the only option for them (assuming the people playing want to fight, which is kinda the point of playing an assault mech).

Either there needs to be an attacking and defending team, or there needs to be an objective to fight over. At the moment, the objectives for each team are on completely opposite sides of the map, so there is little incentive for the teams to actually meet.

[Koggz]

Aeten, on 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm sure you've been in a battle where your tonnage-heavy team is just stomping the **** out of some hapless noobs, when suddenly 2-4 enemy lights jump on your cap and you find yourselves utterly screwed. It probably happened on Alpine.

</p>I just want you to know that your are the exact reason I still have faith in lights. With no real defined purpose I use them to **** people off!What seems to be the problem here though is an over confident noob... as seen in the following example. http://mwomercs.com/...lemech-16-flea/  Moral of the story is heavy and fire power isn't always better.Thanks for the laughs though! Cheers.

[PurplePaladin]

This is only my second post ever (after months of play, and 4 mech to Master), but one of my suggestions is they don't allowing capping bases until a 3-5 minute time runs out. Perhaps a force field around the base or something till the timer runs out. And yes, a better reward for capping would be great. As I wrote before, I can play amazing games with my Med mech, cap everything, but I get a fraction xp/money than I do just casually blasting away with my assault.

[Dracol]

Getting base camped sucks. I learned that early on. Did I come to the forums to complain? Nope

Instead, I learned how to scout in meds and lights. When pugging and the blob goes one way, I go the other to make sure of no sneak caps. When I hear "Base is under attack" I check my radar to see if an ally is heading back, if not then I go and defend.

If you keep losing to base caps, you only have yourself to blame.
You might have to blame yourself for always running an assault mech or slow heavy.
You might have to blame yourself for always wanting to fight in the middle of the map.
You might have to blame yourself for wanting to follow the blob.
You might have to blame yourself for not wanting to leave the brawl.
You might even have to blame yourself for not reading the ways the match can be won at the beginning of the match.

But in the end, you only have yourself to blame for the loss.
(just like you will only have yourself to blame for a loss when Solaris is added in the future)

Edited by Dracol, 25 July 2013 - 11:30 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Its really very simple...if you cannot defend your cap you have no right to whine about being capped. It's there as a strategic objective in the game. Protect it and integrate it into your game or expect to lose. Or be OK with leaving it exposed because you want to risk it to pull off some other strategy. But that is YOUR choice. No one makes you leave your CAP undefended!

I would always rather battle (usually a brawler type and far from the cap) but I respect the need to consider our cap in a game. If you decide its unimportant to guard your base and do a super wide flank, or take your whole force out to dominate the center field, and that leaves this vital objective wide open, and then whine about it when the other team shrugs and takes it...that's poor gaming on your side no matter how you want to look at it.

So yes, the CAP plays a vital role in the battlefield, and yes a CAP victory is still a victory. Show how bad *** you are of a warrior and PROTECT YOUR BASE. Yes, its that simple. Make me fight through your mechs to get there...don't just leave it undefended.

Respect the cap and lets have ourselves some great battles.

~Ax

Edited by Ax2Grind, 25 July 2013 - 11:43 PM.