88 replies to this topic

[MonkeyCheese]

If im the only light mech on my team in a conquest alpine which is very very common these days with this heavy or assault or go home meta Im gonna tell you right now, im willing to cap the closest base to the spawn kappa/theta then I will rush over to meet the rest of the ****** team over at epsilon or where ever they are heading.

Having no backup and expecting me to cap the map alone when I have no idea what the enemy has is a very stupid and suicidal tactic.

Sure back in the day you could look at your own team and say ok we have 2 lights and 3 mediums therefore there is a 90% chance they have exactly the same, but since ELO came that weight balance went out the window for pug games.

[Evrik]

I only cap in my raven 3L as it is a dedicated scout and is stupid fast. My 2x and 4x are set up as strikers and can't duel most other lights because of their lack of speed.

[Shadowhunter99]

I run a spider that only has armor center torso head and legs w/ an er large lazer in the center torso. Personally i like running to cap a little but i always come back to the fight if i don't get killed. In frozen city i run around and take the enemy's first base and go and hit them from behind. If i can fight i will because it gives me the most money.

[warner2]

I agree with the OP. On a large map the light 'mechs should cap. I only use a Cicada and a Jenner but tend to play on "Any" when levelling them, and I always think of capping as part of my job. Basically if you can dominate caps early on it's your safety net for later on. If you lose the fight you can eek out a win by priming their lights, taking them down, and then capping out their heavies and assaults. On Forest Colony and Caustic it's worth bolting straight for the centre cap point. You can often cap that one out and then retreat back to the main group before the real fight starts. A light 'mech can make the difference between a win and a loss easily in Conquest mode on most maps. If you balance it with actually engaging you'll increase your chances of winning and earn more CBills.

[Bront]

As a frequent light user, I generally find the "cap one point and then evaluate" is the best option. But it is dangerous. Honestly, I get angry that the heavies and assaults don't cap on smaller maps, or when they're fighting right next to the point. If you're within 300 meters of a cap point, cap it, regardless of size. (incoming fire permitting)

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

It's pretty much all been covered ...
- Lights like to fight, too
- One light capping alone is very risky
- Fight first, then cap ... only on TD and AP may a lone capper have a realistic chance to seal the win for their team

I love my Jenners and Spiders, but once the fight starts on conquest, it's very easy to not notice that your team's losing badly. You can go from 5v5 to 5v1 very quickly. I try to read the kill notices and team chats, and hit TAB every now and then, but when you're brawling at 150 kph, every second you're not maneuvering is a second that an assault has a chance to line up a leg shot.

[ShinVector]

General consensus is that there is not enough rewards for capping.

There are people like me who are sitting on a ton or CBills and GXP where rewards do not matter.
I play to win and rather see the cap point at 3 of 5 or 4 of 5 before, I assist in the main fight.

However who says you can fight and cap at the same time ?
This particular screenshot was especially memorable cause I was the last one standing, thinking I was going to lose by cap, stay on an enemy cap point while fighting off a Jaeger at the same time. Finally shocked to see the cap counter reverse to at the last few seconds to end 750 – 748 for the victory.

[Dagada Moor]

I am a spider pilot. I always cap at least two points. The last one I try and get the enemy start point. This really messes with most enemies head knowing a light mech is at their back. If I encounter no lights I will proceed to stay at their rear tagging mechs for missile boats and shooting them in their backs.
If no one is capping all u need is three to win. I usually engage and make sure I hit every mech at least once to get kill assist money and you do get money for capping and a little Xp.
So I agree lights should cap and pay attention to if team is losing to get an extra cap then cause as much damage as possible. There have been many fights were I have capped enough and all I have had to do is stay alive for the win all the while getting in as much damage as I can. In retrospect, if are going to lose then go buck wild and try to finish remaining mechs. At least make a good fight of it. Sometimes, I will engage last three mechs knowing if t hey are occupied with me and I have cap points then we will win. You just have to be creative and use a little tactics.
Oh don,t pay any attention to the losers and play the way you want to.

[AaronWolf]

I've recently taken up the Raven as my first mech, the 3L version, and have been capping when I can. Usually I am disturbed on my psychopathic dash across the mesa's of MWO's maps. Commonly by JumpJenners and Cee-kaay-duhz. Overall, I still go and try to cap. It's my job as a Scout! Maybe you've just been unlucky with the people you've been dropping with?

[Long Range Missile Platform MCX]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

either i drop in alpine with all heavies and assaults and we can barely cap or drop with lights that never cap.whats up?why choose conquest and not cap?

light mechs ar the true brawl mechs end of story

[mailin]

The short answer to the OP’s question is that no one he mentions is really doing their job. First of all, anyone who caps in a mech slower than 120kph, isn’t doing their job. Consequently, any mech that is faster than 120 kph and isn’t capping in conquest also isn’t doing their job.

Mindwipe argues that on some maps “it’s almost always a complete waste of time to cap points.” I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment. I am primarily a light driver and have all lights mastered. I have nearly 2000 drops in my Spider alone. I also have almost all assaults mastered as well as some heavies and mediums, so I know a little bit of what I’m talking about. The nature of conquest is that a lone light can actually win the game, which has happened to me and my team on numerous occasions. In conquest on every map, no matter what, if I am in a light I am capping. That is the job of a fast mech in conquest. Granted the game may not give adequate rewards for this action, but that shouldn’t matter. If you don't like it don't run a light or don't play conquest.

Here’s how a typical scenario goes in conquest with me in a light. I let my team know where I am capping via in-game chat. Then I cap points. The only things that changes this is that I frequently check to see how my team is doing for kills versus deaths, and I also look at how the resource numbers are. I generally try to avoid combat and focus on getting cap points. If it is obvious that we will win by cap points, I may engage. I will typically only engage if my team has fewer deaths than the enemy. If the numbers are fairly even, I will look for a seriously wounded enemy and help take him out. Generally speaking, I will rarely, if ever, engage when the enemy has two or more cap points.

Mindwipe also wrote, “Of course there is also the fact that capping gives pretty much no reward, only doing damage does. So why should I as a light buff your heavy or assault's rewards by ensuring the win as opposed to getting in their and fighting as well.” Because that is the job of a light, plain and simple. No one ever said that running a light will make you rich. That’s certainly not why I do it. If you don’t like it, don’t run a light in conquest mode. Otherwise get over it and help your team by capping.

As far as Alpine or Tourmaline, there are ways to avoid and evade the enemy, but most lights don’t do this. Also, it is a rather simple matter, with some experience to tell how many mechs are capping a given point. If I am at Kappa on Alpine and the Theta bar starts dropping quickly I know that there is more than one enemy on Theta. In that case, I simply don’t go directly to Theta. Instead I move to the middle of the map a little bit. I typically can spot the enemy on their way to Kappa, and can give my team mates the number, type of mechs and loadouts, all without being seen, while I am on my way to Theta. Then, while the enemy thinks they’re so smart capping Kappa, I am getting Theta and my team is on their way back to meet them at Gamma.
Think about it. If the enemy started at Sigma, and took Theta, where will they be going next? Kappa or Gamma, right? So, maybe, just maybe there’s somewhere in the middle that a light could maybe go and observe their numbers and types. Then, the light has the option of what to do next. The only time a light will really have no choice to fight is when he is completely surrounded by lights, and even then, fleeing is still an option.

Smith, we’re only talking about conquest here, not assault. As an aside, there is a strategy to capping in assault that seems to escape most light pilots. (And no, the strategy isn’t cap for the win as soon as you can.)

Hebdomas, you should be capping until your team has all but one cap point, otherwise you’re probably missing the cap party at the end.

Ragnar, the OP is asking about conquest.

Padic, assaults following is why I always announce my intentions in team chat, usually with the caveat of “don’t follow unless you’re really, really fast.”

zRaven7, if your Jenner and Raven builds move at 120kph+ you should be capping in conquest. (At least initially, but possibly until the very end if you’re the only light.)

Skydrive, I am wondering if the other lights on your team engaged too early. I have seen this too many times to count and it usually costs the match. If the only light the enemy had was a Jenner, the lights should have kept capping and looked for enemy lights. Lights need to stay together in conquest, just like assault. Finding the enemy lights in conquest is a great way to eliminate the fast threat from your enemies. Eliminate thir fast threat and your lights will be able to engage sooner. Win-win.

Sug, then you shouldn’t run a light because you can do even more damage in a heavier mech. Running a light isn’t about making money or xp at this point. It’s honestly about what makes the game the most enjoyable for you.

Tesunie, it sounds like you did everything right. Your team died and they wanted you to try to brawl. I’ve been in your shoes a few times. Luckily for me, I tend to drop with 1-3 friends who will typically stand up for me in game chat. (Very reassuring when a driver that you respect tells the dead heckler to be quiet because the still alive Spider knows what he’s doing.)

Sorry Biplane, in conquest cap early, cap often. All other strategies are secondary for lights, regardless of the maps.

Well written Hayden. Glad to see someone gets it. If the enemy team suddenly realizes that they may lose by cap points, they may make a mistake and split up to try to regain some points. This gives the brawlers an easier time killing the remainders, and a light may wind up with a kill or two because typically the mechs that go to cap are the ones that are near death.

Sorry Monkey Cheese, but that’s your job. Go maniacal or go home.

Warner, the only time I retreat back to the group is when I have lights following me. As soon as they’re dead, I go back to capping.

[Skydrive]

mailin, on 06 August 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

The short answer to the OP’s question is that no one he mentions is really doing their job. First of all, anyone who caps in a mech slower than 120kph, isn’t doing their job. Consequently, any mech that is faster than 120 kph and isn’t capping in conquest also isn’t doing their job.

Mindwipe argues that on some maps “it’s almost always a complete waste of time to cap points.” I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment. I am primarily a light driver and have all lights mastered. I have nearly 2000 drops in my Spider alone. I also have almost all assaults mastered as well as some heavies and mediums, so I know a little bit of what I’m talking about. The nature of conquest is that a lone light can actually win the game, which has happened to me and my team on numerous occasions. In conquest on every map, no matter what, if I am in a light I am capping. That is the job of a fast mech in conquest. Granted the game may not give adequate rewards for this action, but that shouldn’t matter. If you don't like it don't run a light or don't play conquest.

Here’s how a typical scenario goes in conquest with me in a light. I let my team know where I am capping via in-game chat. Then I cap points. The only things that changes this is that I frequently check to see how my team is doing for kills versus deaths, and I also look at how the resource numbers are. I generally try to avoid combat and focus on getting cap points. If it is obvious that we will win by cap points, I may engage. I will typically only engage if my team has fewer deaths than the enemy. If the numbers are fairly even, I will look for a seriously wounded enemy and help take him out. Generally speaking, I will rarely, if ever, engage when the enemy has two or more cap points.

Mindwipe also wrote, “Of course there is also the fact that capping gives pretty much no reward, only doing damage does. So why should I as a light buff your heavy or assault's rewards by ensuring the win as opposed to getting in their and fighting as well.” Because that is the job of a light, plain and simple. No one ever said that running a light will make you rich. That’s certainly not why I do it. If you don’t like it, don’t run a light in conquest mode. Otherwise get over it and help your team by capping.

As far as Alpine or Tourmaline, there are ways to avoid and evade the enemy, but most lights don’t do this. Also, it is a rather simple matter, with some experience to tell how many mechs are capping a given point. If I am at Kappa on Alpine and the Theta bar starts dropping quickly I know that there is more than one enemy on Theta. In that case, I simply don’t go directly to Theta. Instead I move to the middle of the map a little bit. I typically can spot the enemy on their way to Kappa, and can give my team mates the number, type of mechs and loadouts, all without being seen, while I am on my way to Theta. Then, while the enemy thinks they’re so smart capping Kappa, I am getting Theta and my team is on their way back to meet them at Gamma.
Think about it. If the enemy started at Sigma, and took Theta, where will they be going next? Kappa or Gamma, right? So, maybe, just maybe there’s somewhere in the middle that a light could maybe go and observe their numbers and types. Then, the light has the option of what to do next. The only time a light will really have no choice to fight is when he is completely surrounded by lights, and even then, fleeing is still an option.

Smith, we’re only talking about conquest here, not assault. As an aside, there is a strategy to capping in assault that seems to escape most light pilots. (And no, the strategy isn’t cap for the win as soon as you can.)

Hebdomas, you should be capping until your team has all but one cap point, otherwise you’re probably missing the cap party at the end.

Ragnar, the OP is asking about conquest.

Padic, assaults following is why I always announce my intentions in team chat, usually with the caveat of “don’t follow unless you’re really, really fast.”

zRaven7, if your Jenner and Raven builds move at 120kph+ you should be capping in conquest. (At least initially, but possibly until the very end if you’re the only light.)

Skydrive, I am wondering if the other lights on your team engaged too early. I have seen this too many times to count and it usually costs the match. If the only light the enemy had was a Jenner, the lights should have kept capping and looked for enemy lights. Lights need to stay together in conquest, just like assault. Finding the enemy lights in conquest is a great way to eliminate the fast threat from your enemies. Eliminate thir fast threat and your lights will be able to engage sooner. Win-win.

Sug, then you shouldn’t run a light because you can do even more damage in a heavier mech. Running a light isn’t about making money or xp at this point. It’s honestly about what makes the game the most enjoyable for you.

Tesunie, it sounds like you did everything right. Your team died and they wanted you to try to brawl. I’ve been in your shoes a few times. Luckily for me, I tend to drop with 1-3 friends who will typically stand up for me in game chat. (Very reassuring when a driver that you respect tells the dead heckler to be quiet because the still alive Spider knows what he’s doing.)

Sorry Biplane, in conquest cap early, cap often. All other strategies are secondary for lights, regardless of the maps.

Well written Hayden. Glad to see someone gets it. If the enemy team suddenly realizes that they may lose by cap points, they may make a mistake and split up to try to regain some points. This gives the brawlers an easier time killing the remainders, and a light may wind up with a kill or two because typically the mechs that go to cap are the ones that are near death.

Sorry Monkey Cheese, but that’s your job. Go maniacal or go home.

Warner, the only time I retreat back to the group is when I have lights following me. As soon as they’re dead, I go back to capping.

Saying mechs that are going under 120 and capping aren't doing their job is abit wrong, I mean, what about the Light hunters that are 50+ tons. Best chance of finding a light in Conquest mode by capping, not to mention the stock lights that move under 100. Also it was more that, we ran into the Jenner, or he ran into us... I don't quite remember all of the details in how the other lights died, but I believe it had to do with the arrival of the enemy mechs while we were trying to eliminate that Jenner. Don't think we broke off exactly due to how far ahead we were at the time in cap points... much easier to check then how many teammates are alive, but were sparsing our fire while trying to evade the mechs, while again, still trying to kill the Jenner. Think that when the other lights died, it was only the Jenner, and two or three others in the grid area. Even at that point, we were still ahead in Cap points.

Ofcourse this should be noted. With the inclusion of 12v12, and the decelerated speed of capping to compensate for the increased numbers, capping alone in any map but the biggest will be very problematic since I'm sure even an Atlas could make it from one cap point to the one you just finished before you get out.

[mailin]

Skydrive, on 06 August 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Saying mechs that are going under 120 and capping aren't doing their job is abit wrong, I mean, what about the Light hunters that are 50+ tons. Best chance of finding a light in Conquest mode by capping, not to mention the stock lights that move under 100. Also it was more that, we ran into the Jenner, or he ran into us... I don't quite remember all of the details in how the other lights died, but I believe it had to do with the arrival of the enemy mechs while we were trying to eliminate that Jenner. Don't think we broke off exactly due to how far ahead we were at the time in cap points... much easier to check then how many teammates are alive, but were sparsing our fire while trying to evade the mechs, while again, still trying to kill the Jenner. Think that when the other lights died, it was only the Jenner, and two or three others in the grid area. Even at that point, we were still ahead in Cap points.

Ofcourse this should be noted. With the inclusion of 12v12, and the decelerated speed of capping to compensate for the increased numbers, capping alone in any map but the biggest will be very problematic since I'm sure even an Atlas could make it from one cap point to the one you just finished before you get out.

Sorry, but if you're in a slow light like a Raven 2X or 4X, you shouldn't be capping, unless you're the fastest your team has. As far as light hunters capping, they should be brawling initially, again unless they're the fastest their team has. Once the brawlers are handled, then the light hunters can feel free to try to hunt lights and get caps. Light hunters work best in assault when there is a chance that lights will come to harass the assaults. In conquest it is very easy to chase lights but never, or rarely catch them.

[ShinVector]

mailin, on 06 August 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Sorry, but if you're in a slow light like a Raven 2X or 4X, you shouldn't be capping, unless you're the fastest your team has. As far as light hunters capping, they should be brawling initially, again unless they're the fastest their team has. Once the brawlers are handled, then the light hunters can feel free to try to hunt lights and get caps. Light hunters work best in assault when there is a chance that lights will come to harass the assaults. In conquest it is very easy to chase lights but never, or rarely catch them.

Yo Mailin.. Nice 1v1 back in Mordor a couple days back.

I knew I needed to stop Mailin capping attempts to make his chances of victory to 0%.
When I had the 3 cap advantage in turned back to the cap point I though Mailin Spider D was going to appear.
There my main objective was remain the evasive Gundam Jenner-K vs Gundam Spider D while the resource counter slowly ticked away in my teams advantage.

It went as expected and I was really close legging the Spider D cause he overheated once.

Edited by ShinVector, 06 August 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[mailin]

ShinVector, on 06 August 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Yo Mailin.. Nice 1v1 back in Mordor a couple days back.

I knew I needed to stop Mailin capping attempts to make his chances of victory to 0%.
When I had the 3 cap advantage in turned back to the cap point I though Mailin Spider D was going to appear.
There my main objective was remain the evasive Gundam Jenner-K vs Gundam Spider D while the resource counter slowly ticked away in my teams advantage.

It went as expected and I was really close legging the Spider D cause he overheated once.

Mordor is a hot beeeeatch. I'm still trying to figure out the paths for capping that one. GG though.

[Bront]

mailin, on 06 August 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Sorry, but if you're in a slow light like a Raven 2X or 4X, you shouldn't be capping, unless you're the fastest your team has. As far as light hunters capping, they should be brawling initially, again unless they're the fastest their team has. Once the brawlers are handled, then the light hunters can feel free to try to hunt lights and get caps. Light hunters work best in assault when there is a chance that lights will come to harass the assaults. In conquest it is very easy to chase lights but never, or rarely catch them.

Fastest on the team is still worth noting. I find far too often I'm the fastest on my team in my 80 KPH Victor. Maybe there's a single light that's faster, but often I outrun the mediums. It's sad.

Now, with the cap time increase (2x), a lone light is screwed when they cap, particularly on the small maps where the other team can get there quickly (River City) or see you at 2 of the 3 mid-field cap points (Forrest Colony, Kappa is visible for the other team since it got moved).

With the capping change, it's everyone's job to cap if/when they can. Heck, I was in one game we lost because the lights pulled out of their base while 3 assaults hopped into it (All our team). we got to 98% base cap before things went to hell. If they had stayed 10 seconds longer, it would have ended differently.

[ohtochooseaname]

The need for lights to cap is the reason I've switched from a PPC spider to a 3 MPL spider: most of what I end up in combat with is other lights/mediums as we go around capping. I must say though, I've finally started running with a group (Luna Wolves), and running a 4-light pack with them has been a blast. On the larger maps, lights basically have to go around capping for the majority of the game, or you lose. On the smaller ones, the lights just have to make sure there isn't an unfavorable imbalance of caps, which will end the game early. Also, if we can get well ahead of the cap war, in 8v8's it wasn't uncommon to win on caps with only a light or two left at the end even on smaller maps like Caustic.

[Nick Drezary]

There are no specific rewards for cappers, so for fighting they cat get more money and XP

[Dosbag]

I do better in light mechs than any other class, they arent just for capping. People who think that are the ones I kill generally.

[mailin]

I agreed Dosbag, that they aren't just for capping, however too many people that drive lights completely disregard capping altogether. Granted, it is much harder to get the cap points now that PGI has adjusted the speed, but this makes it all the more critical that lights not forego capping. Once a point is captured, it is much, much harder to switch over to the other team. Again I say, for lights, cap early, cap often.