578 replies to this topic

[Rippthrough]

You can be a complete arse and still be right....

Edited by Rippthrough, 24 July 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[TehSBGX]

Competitive players aren't the problem. It's that so few weapons are actually good and in the case of the PPC op to the point of being game breaking. Competitive players simply use good weapons and with game balance being so poor, they just high light the problem not create it.

[Joseph Mallan]

AC10s are good
Large lasers are good
Medium lasers are good
SRM 4 and 6 are good
LRM 10-20 are good
Ultra AC5 is sorta good (I on't particularly like em bu YMMV)

There are plenty of Good weapons. But PPCs, Gauss an AC20 are the BFGs. Always have been too.

[Homeless Bill]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 July 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Homeless I think the problem he is having is the delivery some of those 'elite' players give. There is a big difference in being right and being an ashat! If that is what his post is about (its what I read in it BTW), I agree with him. I have had lots of encounters with poor winners making a fool out of themselves at my expense.

I'm not going to say I like the way a lot of the competitive community delivers its message. People like PEEF would be a lot more persuasive if they toned down the elitist ***** a bit.

That said, those that continue arguing against facts because they dislike the messenger are even worse. If you need others to be polite and coddle your self-esteem to admit that you're wrong, you're weak. On the internet it's especially true, but even in real life, I have a very difficult time respecting those who can't take honest, blunt criticism.

Clinging to bad ideas and half-truths are far less constructive than being an honest *******.

[Joseph Mallan]

Homeless Bill, on 24 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

I'm not going to say I like the way a lot of the competitive community delivers its message. People like PEEF would be a lot more persuasive if they toned down the elitist ***** a bit.

That said, those that continue arguing against facts because they dislike the messenger are even worse. If you need others to be polite and coddle your self-esteem to admit that you're wrong, you're weak. On the internet it's especially true, but even in real life, I have a very difficult time respecting those who can't take honest, blunt criticism.

Clinging to bad ideas and half-truths are far less constructive than being an honest *******.

Oh I agree, but there are ways to be blunt without being an Ashat. You sir are blunt. I like that.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 24 July 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Aym]

1453 R, on 24 July 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

... like darkwing duck...

Edited by Aym, 24 July 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[Pyrrho]

Trickle-Down Balance: The Reagenomics of MW:O

[MisterFiveSeven]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

AC10s are good
Large lasers are good
Medium lasers are good
SRM 4 and 6 are good
LRM 10-20 are good
Ultra AC5 is sorta good (I on't particularly like em bu YMMV)

There are plenty of Good weapons. But PPCs, Gauss an AC20 are the BFGs. Always have been too.

But every weapon has an opportunity cost.

Energy hardpoints are plentiful, so PPC's are easy. AC20 and gauss have pinpoint synegry.

They are the best weapons (BFG fo sho).

As an aside, lol gauss has 3 HIT POINTS and is still competitive!?

No one is kidding anyone, if you you've had more than 25 drops you understand why PPC, ac20, and gauss are the holy trio of ct-go-byebye (unless you're in a victor or jager, then it's whichever side torso you show me first )

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 24 July 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

AC10s are good
Large lasers are good
Medium lasers are good
SRM 4 and 6 are good
LRM 10-20 are good
Ultra AC5 is sorta good (I on't particularly like em bu YMMV)

There are plenty of Good weapons. But PPCs, Gauss an AC20 are the BFGs. Always have been too.

Please, for the love of... DRIVE A CATAPULT C4 The LRM20 is dirt useless on it. I would not, under any case call it "good" right now. Works fine on a Stalker, Atlas or whatnot cause tubes force it as a LRM10 or smaller.

Damndable missile spread is killing the options on that mech.

[Aym]

1453 R, on 24 July 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

bla bla bla about the only great cartoon duck a member of the McQuack family...

I feel you, when my lancemates have an ECM spider or raven bothering them, they call Dee-double-ya... I mean my 4 PPC stalker over to pwn the ******... So yeah, better watch out you bad boys...

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 July 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The Jager easily carries 2.

Slow-poke glass cannons don't count.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Stoicblitzer, on 24 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

you're brushing with some broad strokes there. i sometimes say the above in the new player help forum without the last part "get used to it or go home." this is just a voicing of my frustration with the game.

Then the question is, why are you saying it to new players if it is coming from frustration? All you accomplish when you do that is to curtail the new player from seeking more help and you shoot MWO in the foot by possibly turning away a good player who might bring 5 friends who might in turn bring 5 more each and so on. If someone is asking how to make their BlackJack better and you hate the mech personally then just flip to the next thread and let that person play the game the way they want to play the game. They might at sometime in the future ask "What Highlander is best and how do I kit it out to be a monster?" At that point you can pipe up and share what you know. Stomping on someone because they like the BlackJack is just childish, selfish, and a sucky move on your part, no two ways about it.

As to the questions at hand about comp players, everyone is a comp player because everyone tries to do their part and win. EPEEN L33TS who have to be the hero and want to eliminate an advantage they think their nemisis has over them are the ones to watch out for.

Personally I would like to see size restrictions on the hard points themselves. For example the ammo feed line for a MG is much smaller than the feed slot for a gauss so pulling 3 MG's from a torso shouldn't alow you to drop in a gauss. You might be able to fit a pair os AC2's, a single AC5 but nothing bigger than that. Lasers would be the same sort of deal except that it would be a heat issue. If you pull a pair of small lasers from an arm and drop in a LL then the recycle time of the LL would be double normal because it would be far to hot (the actual laser) to recharge at the regular rate. Missles, well the size of the launcher certainly should come into play, pulling an SRM2 and replacing it with an LRM20 should force a reduction of armor in that location becasue you just went from 2 openings to 20 and turned that torso into swiss cheese.

The other thing, customizations should be 10 times more expensive to do than they are and the repair cost should also be much higher. Factories ship parts for specific builds but if you have deviated then the repair shop needs to scrounge and scavenge replacement parts for your ride and there might even have to be some custome parts (armor plating) made for just your mech. All in all I think repair costs 3 times the normal would about cover it.

Yes this is harsh but it's not unfair to anyone. Elites get to strive very hard to get the build they want and can parade around once they get it and show it off. The regular players get to have fun on a more level playing field as many more people will be riding stock mechs for "fun" drops while earning a little bonus cash. Hero and Founders mechs, Phoenix when it arrives and, Bless her, Sarahs Jenna, will all be worth their weight in gold because of the slight bost they bring to the collection of XP or C-bills.

Fight for Balance all you want but please, fight for the right balances

Edited by Randalf Yorgen, 24 July 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[MasterErrant]

Personally I could care less about what my standing is...allIcare about is having a good time...this is afterall a "Game"... and balanced mech build are the essence of team gaming. super optimized minimaxed mchs do little to bolster real team play. the are crap overall.

if Community warfarte is actually implemented then survivability and service lentgh will be more important than mazed out quickkill damage.


community warfare will be worthless without repair/rearm. Whether we have to "pay cbills for it or list time.) cummunity warfare means (unless it a joke) campaign play with multiple serial drops and limited time for repair and rearm. which is why you only see minimaxed mechs like an AC$0 Jeager in game by game play in TT mechs like them are liabilities in campaign play.

You see AC and missile boat running around useless with enpty magazines already. in long campaigns they would blow.

[Orzorn]

DaZur, on 24 July 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Maybe "cause" is a poor descriptor... Maybe "magnify" would be a better one.

Is it so bad that competitive players put a magnifying glass over balance issues? The same thing happened with arena combat in WoW, and happens with tournament play in games like Starcraft or Dota. High level players playing the game to its maximum breaking point reveal the weaknesses in that game's design. That is a good thing.

I think, however, some people get stuff mixed up. I've been in competitive play for a bit now. I've used the centbombs, the PPC/Gauss cataphracts, etc. Do I like having to do that? Not really, no. Do I enjoy doing my best with those mechs (or with any mech, really)? Yes. The fact remains that if I did not use those mechs, if we opted to "not cheese", we'd get plowed under by the competition.

I wish the game was more balanced, because I enjoy more variety in compositions. It makes competitive play more exciting because you have to adapt to unique circumstances. With the current meta, you can usually, with high accuracy, determine what your enemies will be in (and it'll probably look a lot like what you're in).

[Mystere]

Warge, on 24 July 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

What's so stupid in that? And how you suggest to solve poptart's problem?

Given that I and many others Iearned how to deal with them without being like them, we never considered poptarts a problem at all.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 24 July 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Slow-poke glass cannons don't count.

With the Highest K/D record on my Alt account!

[Joseph Mallan]

Unbound Inferno, on 24 July 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Please, for the love of... DRIVE A CATAPULT C4 The LRM20 is dirt useless on it. I would not, under any case call it "good" right now. Works fine on a Stalker, Atlas or whatnot cause tubes force it as a LRM10 or smaller.

Damndable missile spread is killing the options on that mech.

The C4... The one with small lasers as back up? I personally won't use LRMs unless I am on Comms because I cannot get reliable spotters.

[Warge]

Mystere, on 24 July 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Given that I and many others Iearned how to deal with them.

I suspect that most of players don't have enough time or just will to fight poptarts. So cursor shake - it's lesser evil, imho.

[Joseph Mallan]

MisterFiveSeven, on 24 July 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

But every weapon has an opportunity cost.

Energy hardpoints are plentiful, so PPC's are easy. AC20 and gauss have pinpoint synegry.

They are the best weapons (BFG fo sho).

As an aside, lol gauss has 3 HIT POINTS and is still competitive!?

No one is kidding anyone, if you you've had more than 25 drops you understand why PPC, ac20, and gauss are the holy trio of ct-go-byebye (unless you're in a victor or jager, then it's whichever side torso you show me first )

I knew those are the Holy Grail weapons 15 years or more ago. You act as if it is something new. You again mention CT go bye bye which returns to Convergence being the culprit not the weapons.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 July 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

I knew those are the Holy Grail weapons 15 years or more ago. You act as if it is something new. You again mention CT go bye bye which returns to Convergence being the culprit not the weapons.

Have you read any post I've ever made on convergence?

Pretty sure we agree 100%