578 replies to this topic

[Feetwet]

PEEFsmash, on 24 July 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

Are competitive players why my fruit tastes like wax?

Are competitive players the reason why my girlfriend left me?

Are competitive players the reason my poop was watery last night?

Are competitive players what killed my grandmammy?

Actually PEEF, the answer to 3 is yes.

S

[Sybreed]

PEEFsmash, on 24 July 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

Are competitive players why my fruit tastes like wax?

Are competitive players the reason why my girlfriend left me?

Are competitive players the reason my poop was watery last night?

Are competitive players what killed my grandmammy?

well, #2 is quite possible

[GaussDragon]

Feetwet, on 24 July 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

And I can see your point. And it makes perfect sense in the 8 man queue where if you are not a competitive group you should stay out. I learned that the hard way. What I don't understand is why I see so many competitive folks running min/max in the non 8 mans. (I'm not saying you particularly but I have run across some). It seems like overkill to me, especially considering how funky the MM is working right now. You guys are better, I get that, but do you have to feed it to me with the META.

S

Like I said above; I can't fault a canon-minded player for taking a sub-optimal build if they want, if that's how they want to play, that's their choice. However, that works both ways; a canon-minded player can't fault a competitive player for taking something that's optimal because that is their preference. However, that doesn't answer the question of whether the game is fundamentally balanced or not.

Edited by GaussDragon, 24 July 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[Feetwet]

GaussDragon, on 24 July 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Like I said above; I can't fault a canon-minded player for taking a sub-optimal build if they want, if that's how they want to play, that's their choice. However, that works both ways, a canon-minded player can't fault a competitive player for taking something, because that is their preference. However, that doesn't answer the question of whether the game is fundamentally balanced.

Yep I can see that and agree. As long as you don't b@tch about my crappy build screwin the team I won't call you a tryhard :-)

Again if elo worked properly there would be less infighting between the 2 groups. Balance would still be porked but the community wouldn't be so divided.

S

[DaZur]

GaussDragon, on 24 July 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

snip > lots of good counter-points < snip

In fairness, a lot of the points were generalizations forwarded by a select few community members that in light of day do have their faults.

I don't think all competitive players are "evil" and at face value I don't necessarily disagree with the competitive e-sport environment. That said, I'm equally not fully convinced the balance premises forwarded by the more extreme competitive players has the best interest of the entire player-base in mind and I'm not entirely convinced they do not exacerbate fundamental balance issues that while real and present... would not have as harsh an impact on the living-breathing meta as it does secondary to their influence.

Flawed logic? Pffft... You're lucky you got me on a day my mind was actually fully engaged.

Edited by DaZur, 24 July 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[Xie Belvoule]

Feetwet, on 24 July 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

And I can see your point. And it makes perfect sense in the 8 man queue where if you are not a competitive group you should stay out. I learned that the hard way. What I don't understand is why I see so many competitive folks running min/max in the non 8 mans. (I'm not saying you particularly but I have run across some). It seems like overkill to me, especially considering how funky the MM is working right now. You guys are better, I get that, but do you have to feed it to me with the META.

S

Elo is why. After the institution of Elo I stopped being able to run my fun builds because my Elo is so high that when I drop, I will be facing off against members of SJR, DV8, Kaos, Snow Raven, Jade Falcon and other top tier units. If I don't run my PPC/Gauss 732 or fastlas brawler, these guys well feed me my teeth. Its that simple, Elo makes the MM act like every ******* drop is the freaking super bowl for us folks in higher Elo brackets. I can't run fun builds or I will get curbstomped by more optimized builds. Also, I represent a good chunk of my team's Elo, so when I drop a lot of times it's up to me to carry the team to victory, and I can't do it in a weak suboptimal build. If I don't bring my best build and give 100% Im a liability to my team.

[GaussDragon]

DaZur, on 24 July 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

In fairness, a lot of the points were generalizations forwarded by a select few community members that in light of day do have their faults.

I don't think all competitive players are "evil" and at face value I don't necessarily disagree with the competitive e-sport environment. That said, I'm equally not fully convinced the balance premises forwarded by the more extreme competitive players has the best interest of the entire player-base in mind and I'm not entirely convinced they do not exacerbate fundamental balance issues that while real and present... would not have as harsh an impact on the living-breathing meta as it does secondary to their influence.

Flawed logic? Pffft... Your lucky you got me on a day my mind was actually fully engaged.

*I've run out of likes for today, rain cheque tmr*

Anyway, this is a fundamental problem we have. An open mechlab and stock mech viability just can't be reconciled for the reasons above. Without proper weapon balance, the truly optimal builds emerge and for people who play more competitively, those optimal builds become the extent of the content. In that context, all the other underpowered weapons and chassis, for all intents and purposes, do not exist.

E: Grammar and syntax. One hand in a cast atm.

Edited by GaussDragon, 24 July 2013 - 08:28 PM.

[TehSBGX]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

AC10s are good
Large lasers are good
Medium lasers are good
SRM 4 and 6 are good
LRM 10-20 are good
Ultra AC5 is sorta good (I on't particularly like em bu YMMV)

There are plenty of Good weapons. But PPCs, Gauss an AC20 are the BFGs. Always have been too.

Well The AC 10 needs fine tuning but yeah the rest are pretty good. Also MGs need work, Pulse lasers need work(small pulse lasers aren't that bad though), Normal AC 5 needs work, AC 2 needs work and So does the LBX. Seems to me like theres a handfull of top-tier weapons, an okay amount of Second Tier weapons and an embarrasing amount of Joke Weapons.

[Stoicblitzer]

Xie Belvoule, on 24 July 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Elo is why. After the institution of Elo I stopped being able to run my fun builds because my Elo is so high that when I drop, I will be facing off against members of SJR, DV8, Kaos, Snow Raven, Jade Falcon and other top tier units. If I don't run my PPC/Gauss 732 or fastlas brawler, these guys well feed me my teeth. Its that simple, Elo makes the MM act like every ******* drop is the freaking super bowl for us folks in higher Elo brackets. I can't run fun builds or I will get curbstomped by more optimized builds. Also, I represent a good chunk of my team's Elo, so when I drop a lot of times it's up to me to carry the team to victory, and I can't do it in a weak suboptimal build. If I don't bring my best build and give 100% Im a liability to my team.

so damn right. put the pugs on your back and take 'em to the end zone. 12v12 gonna be too hard to carry. not stronk enuff.

[DaZur]

GaussDragon, on 24 July 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

One hand in a cast atm.

... No doubt caused by a competitive player.

[jakucha]

Xie Belvoule, on 24 July 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Elo is why. After the institution of Elo I stopped being able to run my fun builds because my Elo is so high that when I drop, I will be facing off against members of SJR, DV8, Kaos, Snow Raven, Jade Falcon and other top tier units. If I don't run my PPC/Gauss 732 or fastlas brawler, these guys well feed me my teeth. Its that simple, Elo makes the MM act like every ******* drop is the freaking super bowl for us folks in higher Elo brackets. I can't run fun builds or I will get curbstomped by more optimized builds. Also, I represent a good chunk of my team's Elo, so when I drop a lot of times it's up to me to carry the team to victory, and I can't do it in a weak suboptimal build. If I don't bring my best build and give 100% Im a liability to my team.

Me and you understand what you, specifically, truly represent deep down inside.

Sybreed, on 24 July 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

I, like a lot of people, think competitive players abusing the meta isn't the cause of the problem but a symptom. They want the best chances to win, they'll abuse every exploit possible to gain those wins.

But, I'm also thinking that competitive players might NOT make the game more fun. They might make obvious what is broken, but when they say they want to fix the game... I have my own doubts. They'll forget what Mechwarrior is supposed to be and turn this game into another generic FPS, killing its spirit effectively.

That's my main gripe with competitive players... they don't understand the spirit of the game... yet they want to fix it. IMO, what we need is a TT specialist who is also a competitive player... then we have better chances of having a fun game.

A lot of the competitive players have ideas that are as bad or worse than any of the current implementations. The unfortunate part is, the few with good ideas are drowned out by the multitude of useless ones.

Edited by jakucha, 24 July 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[Feetwet]

Stoicblitzer, on 24 July 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

so damn right. put the pugs on your back and take 'em to the end zone. 12v12 gonna be too hard to carry. not stronk enuff.

Continuing to win the battle of hearts and minds with us lowly scrubs I see.

S

[GaussDragon]

DaZur, on 24 July 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

... No doubt caused by a competitive player.

What can I say? The door had it coming, it was talking tons of ****. Had to put that thing in its place. Sadly, the opposite happened.

[DaZur]

jakucha, on 24 July 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Me and you understand what you, specifically, truly represent deep down inside.

Those boys need to back off on their grip... strangling the poultry is just a metaphor...

Not..that.. I know.

edit: darn forum filter...

Edited by DaZur, 24 July 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[GaussDragon]

jakucha, on 24 July 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Me and you understand what you, specifically, truly represent deep down inside.

How it doesn't occur to you that insinuating that a guy is being a j erk-off for the crime of trying to win is really what makes you the j erk-off is beyond me.

Edited by GaussDragon, 24 July 2013 - 08:39 PM.

[jakucha]

GaussDragon, on 24 July 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

How it doesn't occur to you that insinuating that a guy is being a j erk-off for the crime of trying to win is really what makes you the j erk-off is beyond me.

It has to do with his previous silly behaviour, not that post specifically.

[Team Leader]

From what Ive read posting in this thread is pointless and changes nothing, as the fact that the Devs make a game full of issues is not the player's fault was established on the very first page.
I just got a new macbook and its sweet. Doughnuts.

[Stoicblitzer]

GaussDragon, on 24 July 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

How it doesn't occur to you that insinuating that a guy is being a j erk-off for the crime of trying to win is really what makes you the j erk-off is beyond me.

....which hand did you break?

[Feetwet]

GaussDragon, on 24 July 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

How it doesn't occur to you that insinuating that a guy is being a j erk-off for the crime of trying to win is really what makes you the j erk-off is beyond me.

This is just speculation here but I think he was commenting less on what he said and more on how he said it. People should try to avoid writing their post with an epeen. Same thing could have been said by humbly talking about the groups he drops against and the builds he is facing.

S

Edited by Feetwet, 24 July 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[GaussDragon]

Stoicblitzer, on 24 July 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

....which hand did you break?

The important one

Feetwet, on 24 July 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

This is just speculation here but I think he was commenting less on what he said and more on how he said it. People should try to avoid writing their post with an epeen. Same thing could have been said by humbly talking about the groups he drops against and the builds he is facing.

S

He was merely commenting on his relationship with other competitive players, didn't seem controversial or demeaning to me.