578 replies to this topic

[Rippthrough]

xDeityx, on 25 July 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

KD ratio and W/L ratio aren't a good indicator of skill since the introduction of Elo. The guy who pilots the first 'mech and gets better stats is probably just in a lower Elo bracket. But all that aside it is definitely possible to be bad at valuation but good at aiming, reaction time, awareness, etc. The thing about valuation though is that you don't need to have it to be successful in MechWarrior, especially if you are part of a team since competitive teams will tell you what loadouts to run as well as what targets to focus first (the other task to which valuation is applied).

Perhaps you can be good , but if you don't understand why that build is so good, or why to target that mech first, then you're never going to be as good as people who do.

When we drop as a clan it's very rare that targets need to be called because everyone is already shooting the right mech

[Erata]

Jestun, on 24 July 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

They highlight issues.

They do not cause them.

Balanced weapons in the hands of competitive players should trickle down to balanced weapons in anyone else's hands.

This is a quote that deserves more attention.

[Joseph Mallan]

xDeityx, on 25 July 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

KD ratio and W/L ratio aren't a good indicator of skill since the introduction of Elo. The guy who pilots the first 'mech and gets better stats is probably just in a lower Elo bracket. But all that aside it is definitely possible to be bad at valuation but good at aiming, reaction time, awareness, etc. The thing about valuation though is that you don't need to have it to be successful in MechWarrior, especially if you are part of a team since competitive teams will tell you what loadouts to run as well as what targets to focus first (the other task to which valuation is applied).

Just so you understand, My team has tried to tell me and a few others what to bring a few times. They gave up. I performed BETTER in my designs than I did in the "Competitive" ones. We have a member that it really doesn't matter the load out He kills more opponents in what he wants to play that any competitive builds. So keep thinking the build makes your chances greater, Its the player not the equipment that is important.

[Master Q]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 July 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Are you implying that in pro sports players all use the very same shoes, Use the exact same bat, Gloves?

Ever noticed how pro baseball players aren't allowed to use metal bats, and aren't allowed to use PEDs?

Edited by Master Q, 25 July 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Erata, on 25 July 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

This is a quote that deserves more attention.

One problem with that thinking. If you use an excess amount of any weapon, it become dangerous. 2 MG 12MG

2 SSRM2 6 SSRM
2 PPCs 6 PPCs

2 Gauss 5 Gauss

I don't need an over achiever to figure that out for me? I learned that almost 30 years ago.One or two powerful weapons on a design is fine, 5+ Now you are just being a Ashat.

Master Q, on 25 July 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Ever noticed how pro baseball players aren't allowed to use metal bats, and aren't allowed to use PEDs?

Do they need them? Really? That is more the issue? But they are fine in College, High school and Lil League... Not good for pros fine for non pro Hmmmmm?

PEDs?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 July 2013 - 05:54 AM.

[Kunae]

Warge, on 24 July 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

What's so stupid in that? And how you suggest to solve poptart's problem?

As I've said in many another thread:

Raise PPC/ERPPC heat back up to canon levels.
Return SRM damage and spread to where they were in January.

No more "pop-tart" issue.

[MaddMaxx]

DaZur, on 24 July 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Quite the contrary... I enjoy the win/loss scenario.

That said, I play to "have fun"... so yes, I occasionally sport unconventional builds. Does this preclude I'm not playing to win?... If you ask a competitive player their answer is a resounding "yes". In their eyes I'm not doing everything I can to ensure I carry my weight and forward the goal of winning.

Which begs the question (in a general sense).

Are you in fact a drag on the "TEAM"? Given that MWO is a "TEAM" game and played with 7 (soon to be 11) other players.

Why should the others have to take up your slack, if in fact your goal is to have "FUN", all the while wanting to "WIN" and even profess to taking, what you yourself classify, as a non optimal build with which to attempt said "WIN".

Seems to be a oxymoron of logic...

[Warge]

Kunae, on 25 July 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Raise PPC/ERPPC heat back up to canon levels.

No more "pop-tart" issue.

Gauss, 2*PPC still be usable, no?

[Joseph Mallan]

MaddMaxx, on 25 July 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Which begs the question (in a general sense).

Are you in fact a drag on the "TEAM"? Given that MWO is a "TEAM" game and played with 7 (soon to be 11) other players.

Why should the others have to take up your slack, if in fact your goal is to have "FUN", all the while wanting to "WIN" and even profess to taking, what you yourself classify, as a non optimal build with which to attempt said "WIN".

Seems to be a oxymoron of logic...

Not at all. One can play to win, without gaming the system. Can you win with 3 PPCs on a Stalker if it also has some SRMs for close range or LRMs for long?

[DaZur]

Exercise: Most modern cars are capable of speeds far in excess of the legal limit. Should speeding be excused and the manufacturers held culpable for not mitigating all the speed related accidents and deaths?

Yes... It's an extreme hyperbole bordering on a strawman but it exemplifies what I think is a salient point.

Absolutely PGI is culpable of making mistakes in balance, thinking myopically and performing granular balance adjustments with a 4 meter lead pipe... That said, I still contend that we (I say "we" because all of use do it in one form or another) exacerbate the balance issues by self-justifying doing so as a means to an end and using the excuse that because PGI failed to adequately insulate their product (balancing) to mitigate the opportunity to abuse it's mechanics it's justified....

Yes, It's unicorn farts and pixie dust logic... but there is truth underlying the fallacy. I realize it's wishful thinking to think the community would self-police to encourage gainful game-play until such time the global balance issues are properly addressed...

I felt the same what when the prevailing hubbub was 8-man drops resulted in 12 Atlas-D's and 4 EMC Ravens... One would think the desire of the competitive player to form gentlemen's agreements amongst themselves to actuate a viable arena until such time PGI squared this away would be a logical resolution...

Instead it became apparent the overriding desire to win made it impossible achieve this...

PGI is culpable no doubt... But in fairness, we as a community continue do ourselves a disservice by not "helping ourselves" IMHO...

Edited by DaZur, 25 July 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 July 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Do they need them? Really? That is more the issue? But they are fine in College, High school and Lil League... Not good for pros fine for non pro Hmmmmm?

PEDs?

Wooden Bats in the Pros is what we might call Canon.

PED = Performance Enhancing Drugs. Get your butt band using them.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 July 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Warge, on 25 July 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Gauss, 2*PPC still be usable, no?

Gauss and 2 PPCs Still usable, Yes. and should be usable.

[MaddMaxx]

Kunae, on 25 July 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

As I've said in many another thread:

Raise PPC/ERPPC heat back up to canon levels.
Return SRM damage and spread to where they were in January.

No more "pop-tart" issue.

And doing that simply shelves the (er)PPC (like they were before) and those Comp. players simply move on to the next best thing. And the crowd starts railing against whatever that next thing is...

How long before everything has been nerfed so much that the actual point of the whole game is compromised?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 July 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[Kunae]

Warge, on 25 July 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Gauss, 2*PPC still be usable, no?

To an extent, but they were always usable, and were never really an issue, before the SRM nerfs.

MaddMaxx, on 25 July 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

And you simply shelve the (er)PPC and those Comp players move on to the next best thing. How long before everything has been nerfed so much that the point of the game is compromised?

You don't comprehend. I don't want nerfs. I want PGI to undo the crap they did that broke it in the first place.

Edited by Kunae, 25 July 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MaddMaxx, on 25 July 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

Wooden Bats in the Pros is what we might call Canon.

PED = Performance Enhancing Drugs. Get your butt band using them.

I thought that was what you meant. Yes Wood bats at the Pro level, but has that trickled down to college and lil league levels?

[DaZur]

MaddMaxx, on 25 July 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Seems to be a oxymoron of logic...

Understandably at face-value is does sound like oxymoron of logic...

That said, to still contribute positively despite fielding a sub-optimized build is a self-imposed challenge, thus it is justified in my mind. Long and short... "Yes" if I showed up in a garbage mech and was an absolute burden to the team... ImDoingItWrong. If I continue to contribute despite my decision... no one should have room to judge my decision.

[Joseph Mallan]

MaddMaxx, on 25 July 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

And doing that simply shelves the (er)PPC (like they were before) and those Comp. players simply move on to the next best thing. And the crowd starts railing against whatever that next thing is...

How long before everything has been nerfed so much that the actual point of the whole game is compromised?

I used a single ERPPC with My Gauss Before they nerfed the heat. It worked just fine. Very fine I have to say.

[MaddMaxx]

DaZur, on 25 July 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Exercise: Most modern cars are capable of speeds far in excess of the legal limit. Should speeding be excused and the manufacturers held culpable for not mitigating all the speed related accidents and deaths?

Yes... It's an extreme hyperbole bordering on a strawman but it exemplifies what I think is a salient point.

Absolutely PGI is culpable of making mistakes in balance, thinking myopically and performing granular balance adjustments with a 4 meter lead pipe... That said, I still contend that we (I say "we" because all of use do it in one form or another) exacerbate the balance issues by self-justifying doing so as a means to an end and using the excuse that because PGI failed to adequately insulate their product (balancing) to mitigate the opportunity to abuse it's mechanics it's justified....

Yes, It's unicorn farts and pixie dust logic... but there is truth underlying the fallacy. I realize it's wishful thinking to think the community would self-police to encourage gainful game-play until such time the global balance issues are properly addressed...

I felt the same what when the prevailing hubbub was 8-man drops resulted in 10 Atlas-D's and 2 EMC Ravens... One would think the desire of the competitive player to form gentleman's agreements amongst themselves to actuate a viable arena until such time PGI squared this away would be a logical resolution...

Instead it became apparent the overriding desire to win made it impossible achieve this...

PGI is culpable no doubt... But in fairness, we as a community continue do ourselves a disservice by not "helping ourselves" IMHO...

Well said and sadly the brutal truth of it all. When PGI decided to add the Med laser, the Large Laser, the (er)PPC and the AC20, (et all) the affect on game play was set.

Allowing more than 1(maybe 2) to be utilized at the same time, and other mitigating items) pretty much set the "community" on its way to where we are today.

[MaddMaxx]

Kunae, on 25 July 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

To an extent, but they were always usable, and were never really an issue, before the SRM nerfs.

You don't comprehend. I don't want nerfs. I want PGI to undo the crap they did that broke it in the first place.

And you don't read so good. They were not used much when their Stats were set that way. Given HSR, Speed and Heat changes that took them off the shelf, should they all go back, or just the ones we now do not like, for some reason?

[Rippthrough]

DaZur, on 25 July 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Exercise: Most modern cars are capable of speeds far in excess of the legal limit. Should speeding be excused and the manufacturers held culpable for not mitigating all the speed related accidents and deaths?

If the engine explodes or the car takes off at that speed, yes.