35 replies to this topic

[FinnMcKool]

I dont understand the secrecy . Ya they already got my money , but does anyone think holding off on the info will make anything better?

[Zenehre]

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

I understand. But I do not believe it will be the case with MWO. Until PGI says something different, I don't believe they will be offering a monthly payment package. All I am saying is that the founder's package says nothing about that.

You feel they will offer a monthly payment plan because you expect it. I do not. That is the difference and it has NOTHING to do with the wording in the Operation Inception message or the use of the word premium in the description of the two founder accounts.

They would be a fool not to, and i can almost say with certainty at this point, that they will have such a payment plan. Selling a package of increased exp/c-bills in time increments (a day, a week, 30 days, 60 days, whatever size blocks they want to offer prices for) is par for the course in games such as this. Its already been confirmed that they have these packages, you can already buy them (or will soon be able to rather) for 30 and 60 day blocks. It stands to reason that the sale of such blocks will continue into the game's release. It's not a subscription per say, however you can easily make it very very similar to one by continuing to buy the blocks of increased earnings (a.k.a. "premium account status").


My question to you is; Why wouldn't they offer such a package? What business sense would it make not to offer this?

It doesn't make any financial sense for them not to sell these blocks of "premium time", especially when they are already confirmed to be a part of the game, meaning the coding for the income boosts is already completed. With the work done already (for the founders packages) it costs them little to sell these premium account time blocks, and they stand to make a fair deal of money out of them. I believe these premium time packages will not only be in the game, but will be a strong (if not the strongest) source of income for PGI.

[Orion Pirate]

Renan Ruivo, on 11 June 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Not sure about what you are or aren't expecting, since you are arguing about semantics and that is somewhat pointless. But still, it says right there "Two-month premium account".

A "two-month premium account" is a "two-month premium account". There's no wordplay there. It is an account, with premium status, for two months. The other package has an account with premium status for one month. That means that you will be able to pay a given amount of money to get "premium status" for a period of time.

Please understand. This is for the Founder's package. You get a month or two months of a booster.

Boosters will be sold one of three ways AFTER the Founder's package.

1. Monthly Subscription. (This is what you are assuming, and I don't think will happen).
2. Pay for each booster. This is what I believe will happen. The boosters will be per use, or per win. Buy them when you want them, but there are no monthly subscription to them.
3. There will be an option for both 1 and 2.

I am betting on two, you are betting on one, and neither of us know which of the three it other possible ways to get boosters will be available until PGI says so. What I do know is that Operation Inception makes no mention of selling boosters for a monthly fee.

Edited by Orion Pirate, 11 June 2012 - 01:11 PM.

[LackofCertainty]

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Please understand. This is for the Founder's package. You get a month or two months of a booster.

Boosters will be sold one of three ways AFTER the Founder's package.

1. Monthly Subscription. (This is what you are assuming, and I don't think will happen).
2. Pay for each booster. This is what I believe will happen. The boosters will be per use, or per win. But them when you want them, but there are no monthly subscription to them.
3. There will be an option for both 1 and 2.

I am betting on two, you are betting on one, and neither of us know which of the three it other possible ways to get boosters will be available until PGI says so. What I do know is that Operation Inception makes no mention of selling boosters for a monthly fee.

It'd be silly for them to condition their customers to getting monthly premium accounts with the founders package, and then only offer per-win boosters. (although I agree that the most likely option is 3 in your list) I don't see any reason why they would steer away from monthly premium accounts after teaching their customers to expect them.

In my personal experience: Every F2P game I have ever played has had a "premium account" option based on a set of time. (usually monthly, but there have been some that were weekly or less) A handful of F2P games I've played have had the "per win" boosters that you're talking about, but even those also offered timed boosters as well.

I think it'd be silly for PGI to not offer monthly boosters, honestly. Yes, a certain amount of this comes down to personal opinion, but I think at this point it's silly to think they wouldn't do it. An educated guess would say that if they're offering boosters based on time to the founders... that's them showing their hand as to how they intend to sell boosters in the future.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 11 June 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Orion Pirate]

Zenehre, on 11 June 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

They would be a fool not to, and i can almost say with certainty at this point, that they will have such a payment plan. Selling a package of increased exp/c-bills in time increments (a day, a week, 30 days, 60 days, whatever size blocks they want to offer prices for) is par for the course in games such as this. Its already been confirmed that they have these packages, you can already buy them (or will soon be able to rather) for 30 and 60 day blocks. It stands to reason that the sale of such blocks will continue into the game's release. It's not a subscription per say, however you can easily make it very very similar to one by continuing to buy the blocks of increased earnings (a.k.a. "premium account status").


My question to you is; Why wouldn't they offer such a package? What business sense would it make not to offer this?

It doesn't make any financial sense for them not to sell these blocks of "premium time", especially when they are already confirmed to be a part of the game, meaning the coding for the income boosts is already completed. With the work done already (for the founders packages) it costs them little to sell these premium account time blocks, and they stand to make a fair deal of money out of them. I believe these premium time packages will not only be in the game, but will be a strong (if not the strongest) source of income for PGI.

I can argue the opposite.

Lets say this premium monthly subscription is $15 a month that you are talking about. And lets say that a new mech chassis they add in a patch costs $8, and they release two mechs a month.

IF they offer a monthly subscription that allows people to farm C-bills faster, then they loose money becasue you can buy their mechs with in game money that they are farming at an increased rate.

BUT if you offer boosters as a pay item, for say packs of 10 wins, or for three days or ten days, say for just $3 or $5, something like that, then they have more micro transactions and more chances to make money.\

Anyways, again, since the Founder's Package announcement says nothing about PGI offering a monthly payment plan for MWO, I am betting against it, and those are some of my reasons. I am sure we can tear each other's ideas apart, but they hired people to do the math and they will have decided to do as they think is best for their business model. I am guessing one way, but I understand it is not absolute. THIS is what I am trying to get across in the Founder's message, that there is no absolute mention of a monthly payment plan. It is all a guess by all of us.

[Renan Ruivo]

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Please understand. This is for the Founder's package. You get a month or two months of a booster.

Boosters will be sold one of three ways AFTER the Founder's package.

1. Monthly Subscription. (This is what you are assuming, and I don't think will happen).
2. Pay for each booster. This is what I believe will happen. The boosters will be per use, or per win. But them when you want them, but there are no monthly subscription to them.
3. There will be an option for both 1 and 2.

I am betting on two, you are betting on one, and neither of us know which of the three it other possible ways to get boosters will be available until PGI says so. What I do know is that Operation Inception makes no mention of selling boosters for a monthly fee.

Ooh, what is at stake?

I'm betting on three, actually. Pretty much every F2P title out there is doing it like that (WoT, Black Prophecy, Star Trek Online, Champions Online, Age of Conan, LoTRO, etc.)


But sure, when you put it that way ... i don't even know if i will wake up alive tomorrow.


If you really must, call it a 30 day booster-pack (for both XP and c-bills). Its the same thing.

[Orion Pirate]

LackofCertainty, on 11 June 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

It'd be silly for them to condition their customers to getting monthly premium accounts with the founders package, and then only offer per-win boosters. (although I agree that the most likely option is 3 in your list) I don't see any reason why they would steer away from monthly premium accounts after teaching their customers to expect them.

As I said earlier, it is a Founder's perk to get the one or two month of C-bill/XP boost.

When I started playing LoL, I got boosters for free, but I was not conditioned to expect them or want to use them. So I don't expect that the Founder's Package will condition other people either.

Renan Ruivo, on 11 June 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Ooh, what is at stake?

I'm betting on three, actually. Pretty much every F2P title out there is doing it like that (WoT, Black Prophecy, Star Trek Online, Champions Online, Age of Conan, LoTRO, etc.)


But sure, when you put it that way ... i don't even know if i will wake up alive tomorrow.


If you really must, call it a 30 day booster-pack (for both XP and c-bills). Its the same thing.

I believe they will sell boosters for sure, but we don't know if they will be 30 day boosters. I am betting they wont. I think they will be offered in smaller qualities, say 10 days max. That is my guess.

[LackofCertainty]

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

I can argue the opposite.

Lets say this premium monthly subscription is $15 a month that you are talking about. And lets say that a new mech chassis they add in a patch costs $8, and they release two mechs a month.

IF they offer a monthly subscription that allows people to farm C-bills faster, then they loose money becasue you can buy their mechs with in game money that they are farming at an increased rate.

BUT if you offer boosters as a pay item, for say packs of 10 wins, or for three days or ten days, say for just $3 or $5, something like that, then they have more micro transactions and more chances to make money.\
...

15$ all at once at the start of the month might be more valuable than 8$ at the start and 8$ later on. Also, if you think they'll offer 3 or 10 day premium accounts, then you're just quibbling on specifics. What's being argued is that timed premium accounts will exist, not their precise business model for selling them.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 11 June 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

My take, is that they are not ready to give out all that info, otherwise it would just make waiting even worse, or so I believe.

You dont have to buy the pack on the 19th, and you could wait until the 17th of July, or maybe even later then that... But you know at least that the majority of the game will be made known on the 17th of July, and you can probably make an informed decision at that time.

P.S. I don't think MWO will have any premium monthly pay accounts. I think the founder's packs are just what they are, for founders.

So what you're saying is that.... Operation Inception is..... Pending?

[Orion Pirate]

LackofCertainty, on 11 June 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

15$ all at once at the start of the month might be more valuable than 8$ at the start and 8$ later on. Also, if you think they'll offer 3 or 10 day premium accounts, then you're just quibbling on specifics. What being argued is that timed premium accounts will exist, not their precise business model for selling them.

I am sorry but I do not agree. For me, the specifics of offering a monthly payment plan or ONLY offering small micro transactions is a significant difference that I can freely discuss. You might not see a difference as I do, but we agree to disagree at this point.

[LackofCertainty]

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I am sorry but I do not agree. For me, the specifics of offering a monthly payment plan or ONLY offering small micro transactions is a significant difference that I can freely discuss. You might not see a difference as I do, but we agree to disagree at this point.

Honestly, if you had started this discussion by saying, "I don't think that they will sell premium accounts in 30 day blocks; they will only sell 3 or 10 days blocks," then I would agree that you might be right. From my perspective (and the perspective of most arguing with you, I'd wager) it sounded like you were saying "no timed boosters at all" which I admit you never did.

In other words, 2 page thread based on an unsaid thought and a lot of assumptions, yay!


P.S.
also, specifically this bit threw me off:

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Please understand. This is for the Founder's package. You get a month or two months of a booster.

Boosters will be sold one of three ways AFTER the Founder's package.

1. Monthly Subscription. (This is what you are assuming, and I don't think will happen).
2. Pay for each booster. This is what I believe will happen. The boosters will be per use, or per win. But them when you want them, but there are no monthly subscription to them.
3. There will be an option for both 1 and 2.

I am betting on two, you are betting on one, and neither of us know which of the three it other possible ways to get boosters will be available until PGI says so. What I do know is that Operation Inception makes no mention of selling boosters for a monthly fee.

2 is worded as though there would only be per win/use boosters, without the option of timed boosters. I thought, since you made no mention of shorter duration timed boosters, that you were insinuating there would be no timed boosters at all.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 11 June 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[Orion Pirate]

LackofCertainty, on 11 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Honestly, if you had started this discussion by saying, "I don't think that they will sell premium accounts in 30 day blocks; they will only sell 3 or 10 days blocks," then I would agree that you might be right. From my perspective (and the perspective of most arguing with you, I'd wager) it sounded like you were saying "no timed boosters at all" which I admit you never did.

In other words, 2 page thread based on an unsaid thought and a lot of assumptions, yay!


P.S.
also, specifically this bit threw me off:


2 is worded as though there would only be per win/use boosters, without the option of timed boosters. I thought since you made no mention of shorter duration timed boosters that you were insinuating there would be no timed boosters at all.

Yes, with option #2 that you quoted me on I assume will be a per win booster pack, packs of five wins or ten wins etc... Also there will be timed boosters for three days or ten days. I neglected to say that at the time, but what was more important was that I do not think they will sell a 30 day booster, nor do I believe they will sell a monthly subscription to the game.

But that is my guess, none of us have any facts about this yet.

[Aym]

Orion Pirate, on 11 June 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

You are comparing the word "premium" used in description of the Founder's package with WoT. They are not the same word.

No mention from PGI has yet to me made (to my knowledge) that PGI will offer a monthly payment subscription plan for MWO, and I am betting they wont.

Premium does not mean subscription.

I'm surprised you still feel this way Orion. STO and Champions Online also have "premium" subscriptions. They may be called other names but in this case it really does seem that there will be a monthly subscription option for added benefits, which are outlined in the founder's package. Also most systems offer the third option, with overlapping and additive bonuses to be taken advantage of. Also I'd expect "per-game" boosters but then I didn't play much WoT and maybe other games have more per-win, I'm used to games with "per-x-period of time" boosters.
For the OP: You'll be given full disclosure before you purchase. More goodies MAY be added between launch and when you purchase, which will almost certainly be retro-active to apply to people who purchased earlier. But there's no way they won't give you a break down of the cost of the premium subscription since it's a selling point for the founder's package.

Edited by Aym, 11 June 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[Orion Pirate]

Aym, on 11 June 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

I'm surprised you still feel this way Orion. STO and Champions Online also have "premium" subscriptions. They may be called other names but in this case it really does seem that there will be a monthly subscription option for added benefits, which are outlined in the founder's package.

STO and Champions used to be a pay to play game, then went free to play. Same with Lord of the Rings and some others that changed from Pay to Play to F2P.

BUT this is a game that is fresh and did not rely on Payment to Play when first designed as per many others. If they can manage micro transactions well enough, they stand to make more money that way then offering monthly payment plans. So I see a difference. I know of at least one F2P game that does NOT offer any monthly payments.

Again, this is my guess, and I am offering my reasons for the guess.

What we do know for fact is that Operation Inception says nothing about a monthly payment plan. It does not mean they won't, and you can assume they will offer one, but I don't believe they will.

Edited by Orion Pirate, 11 June 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[Renan Ruivo]

Aym, on 11 June 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

I'm surprised you still feel this way Orion. STO and Champions Online also have "premium" subscriptions. They may be called other names but in this case it really does seem that there will be a monthly subscription option for added benefits, which are outlined in the founder's package. Also most systems offer the third option, with overlapping and additive bonuses to be taken advantage of.
For the OP: You'll be given full disclosure before you purchase. More goodies MAY be added between launch and when you purchase, which will almost certainly be retro-active to apply to people who purchased earlier. But there's no way they won't give you a break down of the cost of the premium subscription since it's a selling point for the founder's package.

Then again, he said LoL does not have 30 day booster packs.

Haven't played that game though ...


I, for one, like the option to have small boosters. With WoT i generally buy 30 days and play for 10, letting the other 20 go to waste. Yeah, i have the option of buying 1 and 7 days but meh ... Then i have nobody else to blame.

[LackofCertainty]

Renan Ruivo, on 11 June 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Then again, he said LoL does not have 30 day booster packs.

Haven't played that game though ...


I, for one, like the option to have small boosters. With WoT i generally buy 30 days and play for 10, letting the other 20 go to waste. Yeah, i have the option of buying 1 and 7 days but meh ... Then i have nobody else to blame.

Yeah, LoL doesn't have 30 day boosts/premium account. Instead it has: 1 day, 3 day, 7 day and 14 day or 4 wins, 10 wins.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 11 June 2012 - 02:25 PM.