740 replies to this topic

[Dustmuffins]

Wesxander, on 06 August 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

If you want abandon tabletop values then make sure you post that openly and watch as the game dies. Some of us play the game for it's table top value long before you were on the scene. Not that any you skill player value that.

Something tells me you weren't here in early closed beta when everything WAS TT values.

Long story short, it was hilariously bad.

[Miekael]

Dustmuffins, on 06 August 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Something tells me you weren't here in early closed beta when everything WAS TT values.

Long story short, it was hilariously bad.

I wouldn't say they ever accurately translated TT rules to begin with. Yeah they gave the weapons the heat and damage, but they got lazy at translating ranges, and underlining weapon mechanics. They made matters worse by making adjustments to the TT numbers before they even implemented key features to the game.

[Stormwolf]

Dustmuffins, on 06 August 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Something tells me you weren't here in early closed beta when everything WAS TT values.

Long story short, it was hilariously bad.

No it wasn't, we already had double armor, a borked heat system and poorly implemented ballistics early on.

[Gwaihir]

Miekael, on 06 August 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

I wouldn't say they ever accurately translated TT rules to begin with. Yeah they gave the weapons the heat and damage, but they got lazy at translating ranges, and underlining weapon mechanics. They made matters worse by making adjustments to the TT numbers before they even implemented key features to the game.

Yea, right from the start stuff was incompletely translated, and then just bandaided over from there. There were plenty of options they could have taken, but they all came down to just using some combination of the wrong numbers.

For fun, just play a game of megamek with all 0/0 or -2/0 pilots to simulate how well we can actually aim in a real game with a mouse. Mechs die stupidly quickly because you almost never miss, and a light mech's survivability becomes almost nil.

OK, so take that, then double health to compensate. Great! Except... then they also *more* than doubled weapon DPS. Not great If they adjusted weapon damage such that they fired faster, but still overall generated the same heat and damage per 10 seconds that they would have in their TT turn, that probably would have worked better. But they didn't do that, and they also didn't ever finish adjusting ammo values to line up with the 200% TT health. It's just a big mess of incompletely planned mechanics.

If they had translated the TT stuff accurately, and just fixed some of the endemic TT issues like light mech health and awful/terribleness of the AC2/5/10, with that original 200% health buff, the game would probably end up decent enough. If they'd tossed out the TT numbers entirely, and just kept the feel of the weapons and applied modern FPS balancing, (MWLL's approach), it also would have probably worked out pretty well. Unfortunately, we got neither of those things.

[Kraven Kor]

Dustmuffins, on 06 August 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

I think Russ' post on 3pv was great. I still never intend to play it though (unless I'm very drunk).

The devs need more of that kind of interaction to the community, especially with the people that put in a lot of time and effort to expressing their opinions in a structured and level headed manner (us among them).

I think that the renaming the queues to "Normal" and "Beginner" would go a long way into helpiing funnel players into the 1pv queue and enjoying MWO the way it was meant to be played.

Honestly that is insulting to the 3PV fans I would think.

Call it "Sim" mode and "Arcade" mode. Nobody offended. Keep them separate, and nobody (or at the least exponentially fewer) will complain.

My primary complaint / concern on 3PV is... the fear / certainty that they will eventually merge the queues and we will be "forced" to play 3PV to have a chance, as we were in MW:3/4.

Stormwolf, on 06 August 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

No it wasn't, we already had double armor, a borked heat system and poorly implemented ballistics early on.

Prior to Closed Beta, in the Friends and Family beta or whatever, they had not-doubled armor, and 200kph Commandos. It was, so I understand, "hilariously bad"

[Nekki Basara]

Kraven Kor, on 07 August 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Honestly that is insulting to the 3PV fans I would think.

Call it "Sim" mode and "Arcade" mode. Nobody offended. Keep them separate, and nobody (or at the least exponentially fewer) will complain.

Actually a large portion of complaints over 3PV is the resulting split queues. It's made finding a game with friends even harder.

[Kraven Kor]

Nekki Basara, on 07 August 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Actually a large portion of complaints over 3PV is the resulting split queues. It's made finding a game with friends even harder.

Well, remember, 3PV is going to open the floodgates for new players! So we can have our cake and eat it too! Right?

*groan*

[CyclonerM]

Stormwolf, on 06 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I'd rather see stuff like:

Solaris Arena: Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch
Missions: team vs team missions, single scenarios, mini campaigns, etc

The current game modes are a bit too "capture the flag" for me. It's not like Clan Smoke Jaguar was beaten at Wolcott because Hohiro Kurita quickly capped their base.

My point being, we need a return of primary, secondary and tertiary objectives, even a dustoff site would be nice. The game should be a trip through the Inner Sphere, this could easily be done if community created maps were available for play. Even Star Trek Online has a Foundry that the current devs proudly advertise.



I played the Neverwinter Beta for a bit, it's not really my cup of tea but I can see the appeal. It was pretty well fleshed out and there are all sorts of locations where there's a ton of stuff to do. A friend of mine is a D&D fan, he told me that there's a ton of lore and backstories in the game (from 4th edition IIRC).

Immersion can be given, even in a F2P game.

That,sir, is just what i would love to see in this game. You see i posted in my question in the last ATDs these words "MechWarrior Online is not a MechWarrior game". I would be happy to invest money in MWO if PGI showed to care about the lore or more immersive gameplay. I just am to pessimistic to think they will be able to realize that.

Do you know what i think? I would like a MW2 HD remake.

Oh, and that joke about Wolcott is funny

Edit: about the gamemodes, they took assault and conquest straight from WoT and Battlefield (but "inverted"),quiaff?

Edited by CyclonerM, 07 August 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[keith]

this is the type of interaction we are missing

http://www.wildstar-...of_the_beta.php

still a closed beta MMO. their devs do weekly, if not more often posts on the official.

[Gwaihir]

Yea, wildstar's been moving along preeeety nicely. If you've got any old MMO nostalgia for vanilla wow/TBC, it should be pretty nice.

[Windies]

Dustmuffins, on 06 August 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Something tells me you weren't here in early closed beta when everything WAS TT values.

Long story short, it was hilariously bad.

They butchered TT value's by decoupling rate of fire from heat and damage. If they had kept all of the value's intact but translated them for a real time game instead of 10 second turns, they actually would have worked a hell of a lot better than what we have now. You could have tweaked specific imbalances out of the system a lot easier than with what we have now ala #magnumopus #ghostheat2013 etc...

The fact that they even decoupled the rate of fire from heat and damage just shows that they have no idea how to balance.

[Peiper]

GIVE US PRIVATE LOBBIES

Looks like I found out too late to jump on the bandwagon.

I read through the letter and studied the detailed description of the finer points. It erupted a small debate within the Devil Dogs that happened to be on tonight.

I salute the effort made to push the developers into some sort of action to recognize what the community has been pushing for all along. Point by point, I can't sign the letter on behalf of the Devil Dogs because, but do support the effort in general.

Here is my two cents for what it is worth.

Somewhere during closed beta we beta testers were ecstatic with the game and many of us echoed this sentiment:

I would play this game just as it is now with all the flaws, the bugs, etc... if we could get lobbies (as in, specifically, private matchmaking)! We were happy to get a new MW game and even with all the bugs, balance problems and issues, we were having a blast and quite happy. In our minds, though, were visions of how we would use the game to our own purposes (planetary capture, tournaments, etc... you know, community warfare as community controlled as possible). THIS is why I became a founder - I'm one of those who predated the founder's package. That was the number one thing promised to us that excited me the most - the idea that WE would shift the borders and re-write the history of the inner sphere.

Those ideas have been attacked, eroded and damaged with every vague description of community warfare that we've had. But, we have talked and we say: if CW sucks, if we could AT LEAST have private lobbies, we could always come up with our own CW. Even with CW coming up, what we look for in the roadmaps and patch-notes are private lobbies. We're more excited about private lobbies than anything else in the game. That has ALWAYS been the case with the majority of the people I hang out with - inside and outside of our unit. We've waited a year or so now, and we're bored, tired, and frustrated. September 17th is either going to be a needle in a haystack, or a straw that breaks our back.

Personally, as a unit leader I think to myself: why should I bust my butt to make the game great for my unit if PGI continually does everything they can to fracture, divide, and damage the community.

Edited by Peiper, 07 August 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[Sybreed]

my take on private lobbies...

If PGI implemented those, wouldn't this mean everyone would play on their own private servers and no one plays the public game? Wouldn't this fraction the playerbase even more? I'm asking.

[Miekael]

Peiper, on 07 August 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Looks like I found out too late to jump on the bandwagon.

Hey Peiper, long time no talk to buddy, and it is never too late to join the cause. Whether you do or don't, the choice is yours, and if you like join us for the next Mecha Lingua, and listen in, not even we all agree on the finer points, but we all agree that there are problems. This is really the core point of all this, we believe the game has problems, and we want to see changes for the better. Hit me up on The Fallen site sometime if you want details (or if you try to do another stock shootout), I am also trying to keep it up to date with all the news going on with this. See ya on the battlefield <S>

[Ramblin]

Sybreed, on 07 August 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

my take on private lobbies...

If PGI implemented those, wouldn't this mean everyone would play on their own private servers and no one plays the public game? Wouldn't this fraction the playerbase even more? I'm asking.

There are a handful of ways to handle lobbies that would mitigate the fracture some but, I would argue that the split in the numbers would have almost no effect on gameplay on the public servers at all. Is the question actually. "Will we still be able to find matches on the public servers?" The answer is of course you would. Thousands of players didn't play on the public servers today. Did you miss them? Did you notice they weren't there? Yes there are obvious holes in my analogy but the point is solid enough.

[Peiper]

Community: Do they know we're FRIENDS and not just super-pugs?

I wonder if the devs have ever had any friends in game. The guys I play with, even if I only know most of them through the computer, are not just other players. I don't recruit people just because they're the best of the best players: I recruit them based on whether we all get along and have a good time. We know of each other's families, health, pets, we become facebook friends, sometimes even meet for lunch in 'real life.' I've seen broadcasts of (DOTA - I think) national tournaments, where teams of pimply faced otherwise-should-be-in-college kids who aren't old enough to know anyone for longer than 6 weeks fighting for big money prizes and sponsorships. This type of player/team is the OPPOSITE of the typical mechwarrior crew.

The typical MW crew is a bunch of guys who have either known each other, or are recruits into said close friendships. We are drawn together by the game, yes, but as all humans are in some way social, we form bonds and like to schedule and pool our resources and time to put together a team and blast it out. Rivalries between groups, and even within groups of friends MAKE THE GAME so much more meaningful than any cosmetically enhanced lasers, bobbleheads, or billions of mech types could ever hope to do.

THIS is why private lobbies are so important. I don't mind playing by the developers rules, but we should be able to play with the people we want to. We're not asking for our own servers, though I know some out there would love em. We are and have been just asking for the ability to plan for and play with and against our friends. We've asked for this from the beginning and when PGI brags about what a great community we are, I used to think that they UNDERSTOOD what makes this community great. I don't think they understand why we're so angry, but this is the crux of it. Yeah, we love more mechs, more maps, balancing and all that; and we expect that as a game evolves it will continue to improve. What should have been a given all the way back to last summer is the community IS what makes this game so great, more than anything. PGI, don't you GET IT?

Even if Community Warfare, as PGI is portraying it, doesn't make it out by their launch date, they better have private lobbies AT LEAST, because that would keep us happy FOR MONTHS. I remember when they let guys form 8 man groups again after so long without them, but ECM was so borked we couldn't find our friends on the map to coordinate with them, AND it was still a crazy hit-or-miss sync. dropping. That almost KILLED your community. PGI: Do you know that? Do you realize that?

All this time, we could have been playing with and against our friends and instead of putting our time and effort on the forums freaking out and complaining, we could have made matches without the messed up gear or whatever, played, and had a good time - and perhaps finding the balances far faster than you guys ever could because we would be doing things way differently than you were. Our feedback would be FAR more positive too. But as I've said in other posts, PGI has been pi$$ing on the community for months and months, and now the CARING COMMUNITY, with representatives of dozens of units and factions are appealing to you for something. The solution is, GIVE US PRIVATE MATCHMAKING already, and stop pi$$ing on us and our ideas.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

keith, on 07 August 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

this is the type of interaction we are missing

http://www.wildstar-...of_the_beta.php

still a closed beta MMO. their devs do weekly, if not more often posts on the official.

I still want in on that game so bad.

[Chronojam]

Dear Russ, my 12 year old son thinks the balance is ****** and the long-range high-alpha metagame is disappointing. This should be valid reason to fix it, also he thinks ghost heat is rubbish. Furthermore, the Lego City game for the Wii U is pretty cool.

[CyclonerM]

Sybreed, on 07 August 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

my take on private lobbies...

If PGI implemented those, wouldn't this mean everyone would play on their own private servers and no one plays the public game? Wouldn't this fraction the playerbase even more? I'm asking.

Private matches, just like every other FPS, will not grant eny end-battle rewards or XP. It should be so because it works fine IMO. We would be able to make videos, Clan stuff, skirmishes,trainings for MONTHS far more easily.

[Belorion]

Peiper, on 07 August 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

GIVE US PRIVATE LOBBIES

Why not wait for lobbies before asking for private lobbies?