41 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Jaggys are a little bit like a pitbull to be honest. They are usually a very tough fight and I think for a Jaggy pilot, charging in full steam results in success often as not so the pilots have a bit of a "why not?" attitude. Also someone else hit the nail on the head. Thier weapons all face forward with very little side to side aimming capability and due to the way their arms are designed, turning just exposes their weaker sides. Head on and face on is probably the most successful way to fight with them.

Honestly, even without the AC/40 set up, they are still one of the most effective mechs in the game.

[Xorv]

Randalf Yorgen, on 27 July 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

2er ppcs and 6 MG's pretty much take the leg off your atlas in 3-4 volleys. with a 315 xl, if you don't get me on the way in you will be trying to get your sights on me like you would a light mech by twisting and turning around. Also if you have already fought someone and your CT is orange or red, the two ppc's whould open you and the MG's would find your squishy insides. And like the a/c 40 guy said, if I hit your cockpit you're done.

Hilarious.

[Takony]

Crutch? For some, maybe.
Back when AC40 worked, I played it like a super sneaky ninja, because the XL in the huge side torso made it like the Hindenburg ballon air-ship. It actually helped me play more patient, more cautious. Obviously it paid off.
The tears, oh well, got it nerfed
Sadly, using 6xMG kills my PC, so no trolling with 2xPPC+6MG for me, but the couple times I managed to play with it, it was hilarious.

As for torso twisting with Jager: a bit unreasonable, since when you twist, you just expose your armpit = side torso, so no benefit (Jager arms don't shield side torsi, like for ex. Cent or Victor shield arms).

The most hilarious were the AC40 vs Ac40 fights, whomever got the first hit on the ST of the enemy, won, because the second killed the opponent .

So there is a reason Jagers "stare" at you, and it's not always because they are noobs (think dps style weapons like 4xAC2).

[MeiSooHaityu]

Makes sense to me that a Jager pilot would play rather carelessly. With such high alpha potential, the pilot knows under the worst circumstances he can at least get one kill before he dies. Sometimes that is enough for a person (especially if he is impatient).

Heck, I wouldn't doubt if some people have more than 1 Jager equipped the exact same way. That way he jumps into a new match right away with an identical Jager and does the same thing again.

Not saying it is the right way to do things, just saying that I can see a person's motive to do so.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ragnar Darkmane, on 27 July 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Rushing blindly at the enemy is suicidal but if you can take down an undamaged assault with 3 salvoes in 8 seconds that hardly matters. Players with below average performance used to get 200+ damage and 1-2 kills by using a route with cover (like a tunnel) and then simply charging at the enemy hammering the left mouse button while aiming at the center of the target before getting focus fired to death. And are you seriously calling a Heavy mech with full torso armor, XL or not, "moderately armored" ? And remember that the "lack of range" is quite relative, 2 AC 20s still deal more damage than 2 standard PPCs at 600m (20 compared to 18) because of the ballistic damage drop off mechanics.

Ragnar Darkmane, on 27 July 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Rushing blindly at the enemy is suicidal but if you can take down an undamaged assault with 3 salvoes in 8 seconds that hardly matters. Players with below average performance used to get 200+ damage and 1-2 kills by using a route with cover (like a tunnel) and then simply charging at the enemy hammering the left mouse button while aiming at the center of the target before getting focus fired to death. And are you seriously calling a Heavy mech with full torso armor, XL or not, "moderately armored" ? And remember that the "lack of range" is quite relative, 2 AC 20s still deal more damage than 2 standard PPCs at 600m (20 compared to 18) because of the ballistic damage drop off mechanics.

in a meta where the opposing team is in a standard engined, no frontal profile 6PPC stalker blasting you from 1000+ meters?

Let's try a little perspective. And yeah, Moderate armor. Majority of both teams most matches are far heavier than a Jager mech, and side torsos ALWAYS are ********* on armor.

Just because you have some idiots noob charge, don't paint the whole group of people who use them with the ignorance brush. There were many a match where I was the last mech standing, with no armor, and often no ammo, with 700+ damage and 4-6 kills. Could I have suicide charged and gotten my 1-2 kills? Maybe. The flip side is how often I see a Jager charge and get disintegrated by focus fire before doing ANY damage to the other team.

No suicide rushes. Simply using cover and tactics, and then hitting with a big stick when the even bigger boys overextend themselves.

[Bishop Steiner]

Takony, on 29 July 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Crutch? For some, maybe.
Back when AC40 worked, I played it like a super sneaky ninja, because the XL in the huge side torso made it like the Hindenburg ballon air-ship. It actually helped me play more patient, more cautious. Obviously it paid off.
The tears, oh well, got it nerfed
Sadly, using 6xMG kills my PC, so no trolling with 2xPPC+6MG for me, but the couple times I managed to play with it, it was hilarious.

As for torso twisting with Jager: a bit unreasonable, since when you twist, you just expose your armpit = side torso, so no benefit (Jager arms don't shield side torsi, like for ex. Cent or Victor shield arms).

The most hilarious were the AC40 vs Ac40 fights, whomever got the first hit on the ST of the enemy, won, because the second killed the opponent .

So there is a reason Jagers "stare" at you, and it's not always because they are noobs (think dps style weapons like 4xAC2).

Gotta disagree on the twisting. Yes the armpit is large, that isn't the point. THe point is to get damage spread across ALL THREE torsos, instead of letting them EASILY focus fire on one single spot. The only time I give someone "the shoulder" is when the opposite torso is already toast. The rest of the time ti's jerking back and forth like I'm having a seizure and getting those lasers, missiles and such exploding over the whole mech instead of where they were aiming.

[Shufflemuffin5]

Xorv, on 27 July 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Hilarious.

Not sure if your being sarcastic or not, but this build is actually legit. I run mine with 2 LPL instead of the ERPPCs (quicker recycle time, less heat, and an increase chance to crit internals) and just use it exclusively for brawling.

Played this build on him for about 75 of his 112 total matches, 201 kills / 52 deaths = 3.87 k/d ratio with and average dmg of 449.9 per round.

Now, it definately does not jive with the current meta of PPC+Gauss, and if you get caught out in the open with a couple of those builds you are dead in seconds before you can do much. But if you just sit tight during the 1-2 minute snipe/LRM fest at the beginning, and patiently wade your way in to >200m you can take out someone (espicailly if they are already cored from sniping) in a couple of seconds. Problem most people have with Jagers is that want to run in their guns blazing and go out in a flame of glory (which is very fun btw lol) and take on 2-3 mechs at a time, or stand in front of an Atlas face just trying to shoot it off which will get you killed 9/10 times.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Ive had my JM6-S Mastered ever since the Jagermech was released on the first week. I used to run XL300 with 2 uac5, 7 tons of ammo, 4 ml, and 2 mg.

After I got tired of being a glass cannon and dieing too easily, I finally dropped down to a std 275 engine and dropped 2 ml. This mech has gotten me over 900+ damage 4+ kills some games if I run out of ammo and survive. uac5 is the second highest dps weapon in the game next to the ac20. Having a std engine allows me to survive!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bb5badb32445763

[Sadistic Savior]

Duppie1974, on 27 July 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

AC 40 Jagers are easy kills, just hit them in the side torso, most of them will have XL engines

I don't. =)

(I don't like XL in any build really...you are tripling your chance of dying. I've never seen the point of XL except as a last resort)

[Bishop Steiner]

Sadistic Savior, on 29 July 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I don't. =)

(I don't like XL in any build really...you are tripling your chance of dying. I've never seen the point of XL except as a last resort)

so either you are moving at 55kph, or you have way too little ammo or armor on a ac40.

Not seeing being slow as heck, low on ammo or carrying paper thin armor as increasing my survivability, and more importantly, mu actual combat effectiveness.

[CygnusX7]

Meh.. Popular mech. There's almost always a few in every match and everyone gets themselves in a bad situation sometimes.
I know when I come around a corner and have 5 mechs coming at me there isn't much point in running.

Honestly, I'm trying to get around you and keep my speed up, not stop.. Especially with 4 other mechs at your back. So get out of MY face! lol

Edited by CygnusX7, 29 July 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 July 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

so either you are moving at 55kph, or you have way too little ammo or armor on a ac40.

Not seeing being slow as heck, low on ammo or carrying paper thin armor as increasing my survivability, and more importantly, mu actual combat effectiveness.

No Dual AC/20 Jager is going to be able to avoid those problems. Thats the price of the firepower. An AC/40 Jager is NOT a jack-of-all-trades...it has a very specific purpose.

The armor on mine is not paper thin...it is almost maxed actually. I have enough ammo for 21 shots from both guns (and a pair of medium lasers as backup). I personally have not noticed a huge problem with speed...it is far faster than my Stalker and has more punch. I have found it to be effective so long as I am in a group of other assaults and/or have close cover. Concentrated fire from several lights will kill me quickly.

[Gwydion Ward]

I have my AC40 Jager set to cycle-fire and simply poke my head around cover, fire two shots, then duck back in. Since its in cycle mode, it never overheats.

Only reason i even have an AC40 mech is because that seems to be what you NEED in order to even think of killing anything, or surviving any fight nowadays.

The CT is the 1 and only thing anyone ever shoots at.. and there's no real way to 'reinforce' it... so the game has degenerated into 'he who has the biggest punch, will always win'. So... i had to do what everyone else is doing, throw on the biggest weapons i could, then worried about armor after that. I simply learned how to play the stripped-down Jager smartly.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 29 July 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[Hound of War]

As a Victor pilot Jagers are actually a favorite target for me, they dont seem to do very well fighting a pogo stick

[Takony]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 July 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Gotta disagree on the twisting. Yes the armpit is large, that isn't the point. THe point is to get damage spread across ALL THREE torsos, instead of letting them EASILY focus fire on one single spot. The only time I give someone "the shoulder" is when the opposite torso is already toast. The rest of the time ti's jerking back and forth like I'm having a seizure and getting those lasers, missiles and such exploding over the whole mech instead of where they were aiming.

Yes, you are right of course about damage spreading, the scenario I had in mind was that the opponent had PPC/AC20/Gauss, you can't really "spread" that kind of punishment so effectively, like you would a laser, should have been more clear.

I just found that if i pop in and out from cover (not necessarily hill humping and not the same spot though ), change my direction, forward-reverse, turn, etc to make it hard for the enemy to lead his weapons, I can lax a bit with twisting. Not to mention that usually back armor on stare-Jagers are paper thin, so a big no-no to showing that part to the enemy .

[Rose Scented Love Puff]

Naimes, on 26 July 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I love jager pilots. They see my catapult k2 and follow me around like a mouse going after cheese. Never gets old having a blind jager dog me until I lead them into a barage of assault fire.

Haha I'm probably one of them since that happened to me just recently....followed a Catapult around a bend and straight into death ! I have to admit to feeling over confident in mine at times and more often than not, I am slaughtered...especially against an Atlas.

There have been occasions however where my Jager has scored some impressive carnage

[Tolkien]

Someone has already pointed out that the Jager is not a sprinter and if it comes face to face with an Atlas its options for retreat are pretty limited. Even with a 300 engine and speed tweak you are running a hair under 80, and a fast atlas can get up to 60 (std 350, +tweak).

At that point your choices are to die trying to retreat or die trying to fight - you'd be surprised how often you can knock the atlas CT out before he can take you down.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sperm Reaver, on 30 July 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

Haha I'm probably one of them since that happened to me just recently....followed a Catapult around a bend and straight into death ! I have to admit to feeling over confident in mine at times and more often than not, I am slaughtered...especially against an Atlas.

There have been occasions however where my Jager has scored some impressive carnage

I have found the real key to success is not the facerape charge, but treating my Jager like a Centurion. Lots of cover, hit and run and attacking from the edges. They are armed like an Assault, but are barely tougher than a Medium, with their XLs, so head on, usually = DEAD. Skulk and sneak, and you can rack up CRAZY scores.

Of course, this is also how I run my Victors (and anything that can do at least 70) so maybe I just have delusions of Ninjadom.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 30 July 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sadistic Savior, on 29 July 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

No Dual AC/20 Jager is going to be able to avoid those problems. Thats the price of the firepower. An AC/40 Jager is NOT a jack-of-all-trades...it has a very specific purpose.

The armor on mine is not paper thin...it is almost maxed actually. I have enough ammo for 21 shots from both guns (and a pair of medium lasers as backup). I personally have not noticed a huge problem with speed...it is far faster than my Stalker and has more punch. I have found it to be effective so long as I am in a group of other assaults and/or have close cover. Concentrated fire from several lights will kill me quickly.

so.....
THIS?

It's early so maybe I missed some opportunities to optimize it further, but if that is loads faster than your Stalker, I would hate to see it's top speed bro. My Atlas does 1 kph faster with it's stock engine!

And you are definitely running about 2 tons lighter on ammo than I like. I run the big guns dry with 8 tons, pretty regularly. Admittedly, I only have a 60% or so hit rate with them, but I like to snipe at opponents that think 500 meters is "safe" from my ACs! (Have racked a couple dozen kills between 500-800 meters from lights and others who thought it was safe to park for a second at that range. HeeHee. )

IDK, shave a little leg armor, and slap in an XL 265, and not only am I cruising a full 20 kph faster, but I improve my Heat Efficiency by 4% by moving those DHS back in the engine.
JM6-DD

I find that much of a speed increase is HUGE on your ability to escape and evade, re-position and in general support your battle line by being able to contain any salient. IMO that is where mechs like the AC40 Jag, and VTRs both shine. Neither is armored heavily enough to be the point of the spear in the current Meta, but as support for those Atlases and Stalkers and HGNs (IF the bloody assaults actually assault) or by filling the gaps and protecting the flanks of the Big Fatties when in defilade.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 30 July 2013 - 06:40 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

It's early so maybe I missed some opportunities to optimize it further, but if that is loads faster than your Stalker, I would hate to see it's top speed bro. My Atlas does 1 kph faster with it's stock engine!

Yes, it is slow. I do 56kph with efficiency boost. My Stalker does 48kph I think. My Highlander does 65kph and I do not see a significant difference.

I don't know the exact build. I can tell you what it does but not how I got there. Endo and DHS are standard on all my mechs though.

Quote

And you are definitely running about 2 tons lighter on ammo than I like. I run the big guns dry with 8 tons, pretty regularly. Admittedly, I only have a 60% or so hit rate with them, but I like to snipe at opponents that think 500 meters is "safe" from my ACs! (Have racked a couple dozen kills between 500-800 meters from lights and others who thought it was safe to park for a second at that range. HeeHee. )

I never use AC/20s at anything other than optimum range unless I am desperate. The ammo is just to scarce to waste like that. And at optimum range, I can one-shot any mech in the game if I get even one cockpit hit. So this build is only really useful if you have good aim.

Quote

IDK, shave a little leg armor, and slap in an XL 265, and not only am I cruising a full 20 kph faster, but I improve my Heat Efficiency by 4% by moving those DHS back in the engine.

...and triple your chances of dying, since you have added two more points of failure. XL engines are just a bad idea on anything that you are using for close combat IMO.

Quote

I find that much of a speed increase is HUGE on your ability to escape and evade

My Highlander moves at 65kph, and IMO that is not fast enough to really escape and evade anything. Thats why I don't bother going for speed. Armor is only important because of lights IMO.

AC/20 jagers are excellent for delivering the killing blow. All that point-specific damage is just brutal to an enemy that has already been tenderized with SRM/LRM peppering.