59 replies to this topic

[Skoll Lokeson]

Because BT balance is based on teams haveing = tonnage or BV, not the same number of 'mechs. Mediums are balanced against heavies and assaults by outnumbering them. 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 etc. The way MWO is "balanced" mediums get the disadvantages of being light w/o the advantages. While heavies and assaults get the advantage of being able to deploy more fire power AND more armor w/o their slower speed making them vulnerable to being swarmed by superior numbers - unless they lumber off on their own. And who does that?!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Thorqemada, on 28 July 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Ask yourself why you shoot a location that is good to shield.
Ask yourself what location is not good shielded.
Kill it easy.

It's always a mystery to me why people don't shoot off Centurion legs, they are a huge target.

I can tell right away when I was fighting against good players due to that.

[Donnie Silveray]

I still pilot my Yen Lo Wang and eat assault mechs for breakfast . I suspect a significant problem is the low speed of the standard mediums coupled with average turn rates. My YLW is quite agile thanks to a larger engine and due to good piloting I can put out 3-4 shots before any enemy can do the same damage to me. Skirmishing like that is fun to me.

[jakucha]

It's pretty much always been mostly due to the current lack of tonnage balancing.

[Sean von Steinike]

Chickenshit cowardice and lack of talent would be as good of an explanation why people are afraid to use a medium. People who want a challenge are not afraid to run a medium and can often do well with them.

[cyberclaw]

depending on my mood i can pilot any of my mediums witch is all but the cicada right now and do well to amazing in it i have hade no problems with sizemic its been 90% the high pinpoint alpha nothing like getting knocked to core red damage after one random lucky shot at range 10% the fact that lrms still seam to damage the CT most witch is a tiny problem really thing is the medium is not a spear its not the lone wolf mech its more of a pack mech 2 or more meds working together can cause havoc on a 1 mech or even small groups if your ballsy enuf they can use there agility to pull mechs grupes into w 2 directions if you wana pilot a by urself pugging fallow a heavy or assult wait for them to engauge then unlease on there target and hope they dont leave you lol but oh man the thrill when your the last man standing in one of theas "crappy mechs" and you win....

[Tangelis]

I don't really find anything wrong with seismic sensors beyond maybe reducing its effective range a bit. What I don't like about it however is it's just a module and as such does way to much for what should really just be a perk rather than an advantage.

Seismic sensors were part of battletech and I think they should be in game in some fashion, but for what it does it really does justify it to be a piece of equipment, like BAP or ECM with tonnage and crit space. You could even further adapt it by making it a specific hardpoint like ECM in the head or something and thus a choice. They aren't really op'd, just poorly implemented.

Mediums however i think do need changes and if I am not mistaken PGI is looking into that? Although PGI's goal seems to be to try and create as even matches as possible without restricting what players wants to bring to the match. If that's really all it is ELO and BV would probably accomplish that rather than nerfing or buffing mech by mech, or weapon by weapon etc..

I say probably because I'm not a programmer and I really don't know, but it makes sense.

[Donnie Silveray]

I don't think making Seismic a crit slot item would help it any better really. IMO if I saw a significant problem with it I'd simply make it so the thing only works when the player is standing still or moving slowly. Possibly allies causing false positives but are canceled to a slight degree.

[Tangelis]

Donnie Silveray, on 28 July 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I don't think making Seismic a crit slot item would help it any better really. IMO if I saw a significant problem with it I'd simply make it so the thing only works when the player is standing still or moving slowly. Possibly allies causing false positives but are canceled to a slight degree.

That's a very good point, they are incredibly accurate for something that by definition merely detects vibrations in the ground. The more activity there is it should be less specific and less capable of clear pin point detection.

[One Medic Army]

stjobe, on 28 July 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

That I can agree with. It just sounded like you wanted to create space for mediums by taking away space from the lights, when it's the heavies and assaults that have too much space.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I think that in addition to that, increased rewards for doing stuff other than what heavies and assaults excel at may be a good incentive to get more lights and mediums on the field. It seems from the last few AtD's that the devs are actually thinking about those kind of incentives as well.

Sorry, I was initially less than clear.
No, as far as I'm concerned there's a huge gap between lights and heavies, which mediums aren't really filling properly due to lack of speed and maneuverability, instead trying to be undergunned under-armored heavies.

Edited by One Medic Army, 28 July 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[keith]

One Medic Army, on 28 July 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Sorry, I was initially less than clear.
No, as far as I'm concerned there's a huge gap between lights and heavies, which mediums aren't really filling properly due to lack of speed and maneuverability, instead trying to be undergunned under-armored heavies.

another big problem is 1 alpha takes most med down to internals. 35 on 1 panel strips off all of that front armor. hunchy in total only gets 52 to play around between front and back. so even if u put 10 on back, which is kinda low. 42- 35 only leaves u 7 left on front. that last 7 is random dam u take from random laser dam and such. the heat system will stop 2 ppc 1 guass alphas from killing meds.... not change in dam numbers woot maths

[YueFei]

In a medium mech, you have to be better than your opponent in a Heavy or Assault mech to beat them. I do well in my medium mechs, for example my Hunchback-4SP has a break-even win/loss rate with an average of 338 damage per match.

But when I run up against someone on the other team who knows what he's doing, and aims well, I die.

Without Seismic, In a series of guessing games, and trying to predict angles and where he'll be while he's guessing where I'll be, if I get it "wrong" even twice, I'm gonna lose half of my mech. And by "wrong", I don't mean that he got the drop on me, I mean more like I broke cover to shoot him and we spot each other simultaneously. But I'd have to give him credit for figuring me out.

With Seismic, there's no chance of me getting the drop of him. So.... if every time I shoot him he also hits me back, I'm never gonna win those exchanges.

Edited by YueFei, 28 July 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[Khobai]

That is why nerfing seismic was ********. Instead they shouldve made it a medium-mech only module.

[Alek Ituin]

Donnie Silveray, on 28 July 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I don't think making Seismic a crit slot item would help it any better really. IMO if I saw a significant problem with it I'd simply make it so the thing only works when the player is standing still or moving slowly. Possibly allies causing false positives but are canceled to a slight degree.

The Seismic Sensor should easily be able to tune out your own 'Mechs standard operating vibrations or movement vibrations.

That's IRL though, because there are many a program that can be installed to "learn" background noises until they're tuned out completely. That means that your 'Mech tromping along won't bother it, but an outside vibration would register cleanly since the sensor doesn't log your own vibrations. It would be as if you weren't moving, but you could still do so.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 28 July 2013 - 11:42 PM.

[Fishbrane]

If you play medium mechs, do you see enemy medium mechs more often?

That might seem like a strange question, but I almost always play a medium mech and I see medium mechs all over the place. It's a very rare game that i don't see 3+ medium mechs on the enemy team.

Then I read these forums and there are people who would have you believe that there are no medium mechs and anyone who pilots one is doomed.

My experience and statistics suggest that medium mechs are very common and it is entirely possible to be very successful with them. Perhaps the medium mech simply leaves less margin of error for the pilot? I don't know, but this thread doesn't jive with reality as I've experienced it.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

My 3xSRM6 cent massacres assaults and heavies like there is no tomorrow even though I'm completely blitzed when I play. Granted I always play under the influence so my ELO isn't top tier which means I've got some leeway for suboptimal builds.

[Jungle Rhino]

Atomicoxen, on 28 July 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

If you play medium mechs, do you see enemy medium mechs more often?

That might seem like a strange question, but I almost always play a medium mech and I see medium mechs all over the place. It's a very rare game that i don't see 3+ medium mechs on the enemy team.

Then I read these forums and there are people who would have you believe that there are no medium mechs and anyone who pilots one is doomed.

My experience and statistics suggest that medium mechs are very common and it is entirely possible to be very successful with them. Perhaps the medium mech simply leaves less margin of error for the pilot? I don't know, but this thread doesn't jive with reality as I've experienced it.

That's overstating it a little. I think on average there is usually 1 medium mech per team per game. Sometimes it may be 2, very rarely 3 often none. Obviously if I am bringing my own medium then this number is going to be potentially higher!

I play all weight classes and in heavies I can easily throw out 400+ damage in an average game without thinking terribly hard. I have to be playing very well to be doing that in a medium that isn't a face huggin SRM boat (which I detest). It is just harder. One of the reasons it is harder is that every time I am in a close fight around buildings with a heavy/assualt it just sits and turns, waiting for me to break cover. It knows where I will come from and you get into the situation of trading alphas that you will inevitably lose. If I want to trade alphas then I should just bring a heavy mech and a bigger alpha!

But I frequently ask myself why I bother bringing my Centurion when Victors can go as fast with more armour and jumpjets (and usually an AC20)

[Murzao]

Just last night in a game it was 3 Wangs vs 1, 7 Centurions in total (4 for us vs 3), with a Cicada and Blackjack on our side and the enemy had a Hunchie and Treb. 11 out of the 16 were medium mechs and the rest were not assaults I personally hit a Phract over the head with my Wang.
I also had many games with over 700 damage in my 9-A zombie...one which I would have got over 900 if I woulda bothered to buy coolshots beforehand. Mediums can still make assaults and heavies bend over pretty easily.
Pretty well every match had a few mediums....more than lights actually.
Oh and 3 Wangs>>1 Wang lol we won that match.

Edited by Murzao, 29 July 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Kensaisama]

Jungle Rhino, on 27 July 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Seismic sensor.

It steals away the one last tiny straw that a medium mech may have been able to clutch at - that is mobility and surprise.

You can't play peek-a-boo with an assault in an urban environment - because it knows exactly where you are at all times!

You can't sneak up on anybody - because they see you coming

You can't even run a flank - because again they see you coming

So what do you do? Do what everyone else does and take a heavy with an XL and as much cowbell as you can squeeze in. Fit a seismic sensor and then laugh if a medium trys to 'sneak up on you' to shoot you in your paper thin rear armour.

Incorrect. It is the "gotta run the bigger mechs high alpha builds" crowd that is the demise of medium mechs. I run mediums a lot, and I can tell you it is frustrating being the only medium on the field full of heavy and assault mechs in some games. This was one of the biggest fears back before closed beta talked about on the forums, the arms race where it becomes assault warrior online, the same thing was discussed or brought up in various threads during closed beta as well. Now it is pretty much a reality do in part to a poor matchmaking system.

I remember one game I was running my HBK-4G, I was the ONLY medium mech in the game, there were no lights, 2 heavies, the rest were assault pop-tarts on both sides. Needless to say I was extremely disapointed in the matchup and died relatively fast to pop-tart alphas.

[Joseph Mallan]

I really need to drop a few $$ so I can burn the GXP to buy a Seismic sensor I guess.