341 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Keifomofutu, on 27 July 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

That ship has sailed. Most of the premades pussed out on the real competition. They'd rather engage in easymode stomps against pugs in 4mans than face real competition in the 8-man queue.

Every tuesdays and thursday weekly.
Get some.

[Steel Claws]

Erghiez06, on 27 July 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

If these "tears" of mine are so unjust then what would either of you recommend as recourse? If someone as new as myself can see this level of unbalance enough to determine that things of this nature aren't fun, you have to wonder how many other players are being turned off of this game due to the current mechanics.

By all means, assume I am whining and ******** over a loss. If that is what helps you justify the current state of the game that is your prerogative, but we all have to agree that PGI is out to make money, and they can't if they are only making it difficult to attract newer players by allowing systems such as this to remain as they are.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy this game for the most part, and I want to throw my money at it, but it seems that for every one reason I find to spend money, I see 2 more reasons not to.

I just want to enjoy the game. If you think this is a fair mechanic than by all means, defend it, but don't belittle my character because you are glued to a system which will undoubtedly change.

As I have said before - the problem isn't premade vs pug. It's experience and skill level based. I pug 95% of the time and usually am on the winning team. Is it because I am with premades - no. It is usually an experience issue. ELO was supposed to address this and it usually puts more skilled and experienced players with players that aren't so experienced. This don't alawys happen if the queue is low. No four man or experienced player is setting there saying "Wow I just want to go stomp some pugs into the ground". Is there an answer - well I once asked for a seperate server for the people just starting the game. I figured that after 50 drops they should have picked up the jist of the game and made enough to buy their first mech or two and get it fitted out so they could play in the general servers. Never went anywhere though.

That said I have played a few 8 man lately and trust me it's very tough to get eight guys together and even tougher to actually find another 8 man playing - there just isnt that much interest in the game from the groups anymore. When I have dropped 8 it's been with a hodge podge of people picked up from various teams so all this talk of - force them to play with other teams is just a bunch of crap because I'm here to tell you there isn't that many of them out there. Three fourths of my group don't play MWO any longer and those that do rarely get together to team up.

In the end what you need to do is watch what the good players do and learn from them. Stay with it and build your skill and then things will turn around for you.

[Skadi]

Erghiez06, on 27 July 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I somehow imagined communication was necessary for teamwork. I must have missed the part of the tutorial that teaches telepathy.

Both the OP and Title come off as QQ about people playing with friends and being good, if this thread was created for the purpose of being pissed pgi failed to incorporate voip, then you should have gotten to the point.

Edited by Skadi, 27 July 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[Novakaine]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 July 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

is the mindset the anti solo/premades have. Like the out of touch politicians and the morons who keep vetoing them into office. They dont know how to fix the issue, they just dont want to be fair. Pull your self up by your boot strap kinda people. All the while crying its not fair while they write the laws that make it unfair.

I gonna suggest some psych help fella.
Advice from an old geezer.

[Mystere]

Novakaine, on 27 July 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

I gonna suggest some psych help fella.

I was about to agree with you. But your location gave you away.



( My apologies. I just couldn't help myself. )

[Tezcatli]

It used to be that it was teams of Heavies we would see. Now it's more and more becoming teams of Lights. And yet the devs think they need to give Lights more perks alongside the mediums.

I would honestly prefer 8 disorganized against 8 disorganized. Though I suppose with 12 v 12. As long as it is only one 4-man per team. It won't be as potentially one sided.

[Erghiez06]

Steel Claws, on 27 July 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

As I have said before - the problem isn't premade vs pug. It's experience and skill level based. I pug 95% of the time and usually am on the winning team. Is it because I am with premades - no. It is usually an experience issue. ELO was supposed to address this and it usually puts more skilled and experienced players with players that aren't so experienced. This don't alawys happen if the queue is low. No four man or experienced player is setting there saying "Wow I just want to go stomp some pugs into the ground". Is there an answer - well I once asked for a seperate server for the people just starting the game. I figured that after 50 drops they should have picked up the jist of the game and made enough to buy their first mech or two and get it fitted out so they could play in the general servers. Never went anywhere though.

That said I have played a few 8 man lately and trust me it's very tough to get eight guys together and even tougher to actually find another 8 man playing - there just isnt that much interest in the game from the groups anymore. When I have dropped 8 it's been with a hodge podge of people picked up from various teams so all this talk of - force them to play with other teams is just a bunch of crap because I'm here to tell you there isn't that many of them out there. Three fourths of my group don't play MWO any longer and those that do rarely get together to team up.

In the end what you need to do is watch what the good players do and learn from them. Stay with it and build your skill and then things will turn around for you.

Truth be told I was unaware of the challenges that the match making system has to face, and I'll secede to these points. I still believe there is a better way for this system to function that is both inviting to new players while engaging to veterans. I have been playing for about a week now. It isn't enough time to get a fully grasp on the mechanics, but its long enough for me to figure out what some of these issues are on my own without having to google the current state of the game or browse the forums to find inspiration on a problem to QQ about.

Aside from watching experienced players I spend quite a bit of time youtubing veteran player videos, reading the forums on tips and tricks, and even taking the initiative and creating forum topics asking how to improve my game. I have said this numerous times on the forums, but I make absolutely no claim that I am a good player. I know I am not. Its part of being a new player. The reality is that this game punishes new players instead of rewarding them. You not only have to provide incentive for a person to play, but you need to provide reason for those people to part with the cash in their wallets. For a frugal person such as myself I find myself begging the question of if either is worth it? Do I enjoy the game? Most of the time. Enough to spend money on it? Almost. As soon as I start thinking to myself ,"Man I'd like to go premium or buy that hero mech," I drop into a Pug against an obvious premade (by obvious I mean blatantly obvious) and have absolutely no chance. Not only does this hurt my c-bill income because I was unfairly matched against players with a significant skill advantage, but they also had the advantage of communication.

To iterate, I am not suggesting that coordinated teams of players be punished. By all means, no. They are playing the game as expected and should be rewarded as such. I just don't want to be punished for being a new player. Being hammered by veteran players while educating in short bursts, becomes increasingly frustrating.

Skadi, on 27 July 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Both the OP and Title come off as QQ about people playing with friends and being good, if this thread was created for the purpose of being pissed pgi failed to incorporate voip, then you should have gotten to the point.

There was no point. There was a question. The question was that of current balance. I may not have been completely obvious what I was getting at but that is irrelevant. I am a new player. I know very little in the way the mechanics of this game operate, and sometimes I need to be directed to the appropriate information or made aware of these mechanics so that I may judge the initial issue with an informed perspective.

As it is, yes, I am QQ'ing over an issue I know very little about. I want to enjoy this game, and PGI wants my money. We seem to be at a crossroads, and its either because of game balance issues, or lack of inform. I am voting for balance due to my recent knowledge that I am not the only person with this issue.

[One Medic Army]

Tezcatli, on 27 July 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

It used to be that it was teams of Heavies we would see. Now it's more and more becoming teams of Lights. And yet the devs think they need to give Lights more perks alongside the mediums.

I would honestly prefer 8 disorganized against 8 disorganized. Though I suppose with 12 v 12. As long as it is only one 4-man per team. It won't be as potentially one sided.

I would love to be in those matches.
I see: Assaults, Assaults, Assaults, A light or two, maybe some Jagers of Cataphracts.

[R Razor]

The problem isn't necessarily premade vs pug, the problem is that most premades run FOTM builds, and like the jerkoff above squawking about 8man, probably use Gauss/PPC boats and sit back and snipe until half the enemy is dead and then rush in to finish the stragglers. They like to claim it's skill and tactics but what it really shows is a lack of tactical ability and almost zero skill.

I play probably 80% of my games in a premade using Teamspeak, but most of us run balanced style builds and we win maybe 50% of our games.......pretty sure that's the way it was envisioned by PGI when they set out to build the game. Unfortunately their inability to balance things coupled with the crying of the kids that play any time they learn they might not be able to boat their weapon of choice has caused PGI to create a distorted imitation of Battletech wherein all IS mechs have Omni-Mech traits and since there are no tonnage restrictions everyone will have the biggest mech they can find with the most gauss/ppc they can slap on it or they will take the lightest they can find, stuff the biggest engine in it that they can and put a weapon on it that, historically, was never capable of being carried by the little ****.

It is what it is, vote with your wallet.

[Dyson Ring]

Looking at the screenshot the OP posted, indeed there are 6 Jenners in the match.

However, one of them is on HIS team.

Also, two of the five Jenners on the opposing team are Sarah's Jenners, meaning that they might not usually run Jenners normally but are on that day because the Sarah's Jenner only just came out.

It's like saying that there's a premade on an opposing team because there's a large amount of a new 'Mech in it.

There is no limit set on how many of a certain 'Mech chassis can be in a single match. I've seen, say 6 Quickdraws on the same team before, and I didn't assume that there was a premade on that team because it was the new 'Mech released at that time.

[Roland]

R Razor, on 27 July 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

The problem isn't necessarily premade vs pug, the problem is that most premades run FOTM builds, and like the jerkoff above squawking about 8man, probably use Gauss/PPC boats and sit back and snipe until half the enemy is dead and then rush in to finish the stragglers. They like to claim it's skill and tactics but what it really shows is a lack of tactical ability and almost zero skill.

Ultimately, if they beat you, they were better than you. Believing anything else is just delusional on your part.

R Razor, on 27 July 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

I play probably 80% of my games in a premade using Teamspeak, but most of us run balanced style builds and we win maybe 50% of our games.......pretty sure that's the way it was envisioned by PGI when they set out to build the game.

That's not the game that PGI built though.

[Skadi]

Roland, on 27 July 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Ultimately, if they beat you, they were better than you. Believing anything else is just delusional on your part.

That's debatable, if you are solo dropping and your team are complete *******, the enemy team as a individuals may not be better than you, but as a team they are def better than yours.

The things ive seen a team do...

[R Razor]

Believe what you will Roland........we could easily build the same cheese and run the same tactics and do as well as they do......we choose not to.

You are right, that is not the game PGI built........it's what they advertised.......but it's not what they built.

As long as there are a vocal group of folks that can scream loud and long and keep PGI allowing omni-mech load outs it will never be that way.

As I said, vote with your wallet...........if you are happy with it then pay them, if not then don't.

[Erghiez06]

Dyson Ring, on 27 July 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

There is no limit set on how many of a certain 'Mech chassis can be in a single match. I've seen, say 6 Quickdraws on the same team before, and I didn't assume that there was a premade on that team because it was the new 'Mech released at that time.

So then the real question is how the matchmaking system works. If someone could enlighten me that would be great, because it doesn't seem to function fairly at all. If there is no method to the matchmaking whats to stop people from doing nothing but pilot Jenners all day. They seem to be the single most consistent Mech I see, so it stands to good reason that they are one of, if not the, single most popular Mech in the game at this point.

There has to be balance. This small statement can be refuted all day, but it holds venerable weight. The last time I checked PGI didn't create a self perpetuating money machine. From everything I've been reading it sounds as if they have been reducing the over-all quality of the game. Granted I wasn't around for closed beta or even the beginning of open beta so I can't draw any conclusions or fair opinions on the matter. What I can do is comment on what I think at the moment, and my opinion is open to a more informed opinion.

[One Medic Army]

Erghiez06, on 27 July 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

So then the real question is how the matchmaking system works. If someone could enlighten me that would be great, because it doesn't seem to function fairly at all. If there is no method to the matchmaking whats to stop people from doing nothing but pilot Jenners all day. They seem to be the single most consistent Mech I see, so it stands to good reason that they are one of, if not the, single most popular Mech in the game at this point.

There has to be balance. This small statement can be refuted all day, but it holds venerable weight. The last time I checked PGI didn't create a self perpetuating money machine. From everything I've been reading it sounds as if they have been reducing the over-all quality of the game. Granted I wasn't around for closed beta or even the beginning of open beta so I can't draw any conclusions or fair opinions on the matter. What I can do is comment on what I think at the moment, and my opinion is open to a more informed opinion.

Things the matchmaker tries to do:

• Match overall tonnage on both sides
  
• Match all players as close as possible to a certain Elo score
  
• Place a premade on both sides or neither if possible.

The matchmaaker will loosen these restrictions the longer people wait in the queue.

[Erata]

Miekael, on 27 July 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

In game Voip, really PGI, catch up to the 21st century of gaming.

Pretty much this. The reason a lot of players are getting smashed is because they can't plan in real time.

They can call a target, but if the target leaves sight, you have to take your hands off the mech's controls to talk.

It's slower and makes a team worse. Ingame VOIP would also lead to players educating eachother with tips on mech builds and stuff like that. Y'know. Community.

edit: It always amazed me that they implemented Elo Ranking before ingame VOIP since it was well known that people were already using 3rd party VOIP because.. naturally you want to with friends. It still lead to 8mans absolutely crushing PUG lone-wolves.. and the outcry from that resulted in 4 man and 8 man separation...
Which could've been avoided with in-game VOIP.

Edited by Erata, 27 July 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[soarra]

Jestun, on 27 July 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

They managed to beat the OP therefore they must have been a pre-made.

that or hax

[Erghiez06]

One Medic Army, on 27 July 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Things the matchmaker tries to do:

• Match overall tonnage on both sides
  
• Match all players as close as possible to a certain Elo score
  
• Place a premade on both sides or neither if possible.

The matchmaaker will loosen these restrictions the longer people wait in the queue.

One Medic Army, I have to make note of your never failing informative approach to questions. It is always appreciated. And thank you for the information. If you don't mind me asking is there a resource or a PGI detailed page I can visit for more detailed information on this subject?

[NKAc Street]

I both pug and premade, when it comes to that specifically in the current state of the game and player base, a solo only queue isn't really going to make a new player experience any better. I say that because good players know how to stick together and focus fire without comms. I have played many pug matches, a simple comment in chat, stick together and focus fire goes virtually ignored.

A pug of good players will appear premade, when often, they just know the simple basics of playing and the other team gets all spread out or they just can't aim. I have played many premade voice comm chat games where I dropped with random players and if the players you bring in aren't that good, it won't matter how much you can directly talk to them.

I understand the point about new players, I've always thought that a queue for trial mechs only, for players with under a certain amount of matches, could be helpful, but that is just an opinion.

[Erata]

NKAc Street, on 27 July 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I understand the point about new players, I've always thought that a queue for trial mechs only, for players with under a certain amount of matches, could be helpful, but that is just an opinion.

That would be interesting, but I imagine it would be difficult to tune, given how much trouble the matchmaker has already when it matches up a mixed drop of mediums and lights and a couple heavies against all heavies/assaults. Kind of an issue of time of day, if it's a weekend, and the general population.

Some players have suggested increasing health on the robots (more armor, more internals with a larger bias given to internals) so that new players can survive for a longer time, and be given more time to play and more time to learn how to play as a result of the increased health instead of getting 3-shot the second they take a misstep into a firing line.