22 replies to this topic

[MisterFiveSeven]

How do you hit Spiders with pinpoint weapons?

I've all but given up. Unless I have some lasers or they're shutdown, it's pretty much not worth shooting at them unless there are no other targets. I just make sure I'm with teammates (read jenner, raven, or swayback/bj buddies) so that they can peel them off me.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to hitting them, whether leading them different distances, shooting behind them, or trying to hit the image you see. And you can't really "follow through" with PPC, gauss or ac's.

Does anyone have anything that's worked for them?

PS I consistently ping 30-60, so MY latency doesn't appear to be a problem.

[Escef]

The basic issue is that the Spider is capable of being stupidly fast. Combine this with jump jets and being small, and any Spider-jock with any sense is a hard target. Probably the best defense is stick with a teammate and keep towards an area with a lot of difficult terrain, and hope that the Spider gets caught on said terrain so you can get an easier shot or two. Streaks also hel, especially if you paid for the Artemis upgrade, as it shaves a couple fractions of a second off of your lock-on time.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I just started piloting a Spider about 3 days ago and I can say without a doubt that I get hit, sometimes very hard, by pin point weapons. However that usually only happens when I do something dumb like stand still or let myself get hung up on terrain.

The thing about Spiders is just like Escef says, they are amazingly fast and agile not to mention tiny targets. They can change direction on a dime, run backwards faster than most mech can run forward, accellerate from zero to full speed in like 2 seconds and jump amazing distances. They are just damn hard to hit. Honestly I think most of the time it isn't hit registration issues, it is just aiming issues. Why? because like I said, if I stand still or don't run evasively, I get hit and get hit hard.

Honestly the best counter to a Spider that I have found is a Jenner. Those boogers are nasty. They are just as fast, have decent jump jet range and more than twice the firepower of a Spider. If they are piloted by someone halfway decent, a Spider doesn't have a chance usually.

Other counters are SRMs, LB-10X and lasers despite the beam duration. Pin Point weapons however are absolutely not strong against them, well unless the connect...then....then they can be devastating. One thing you got to realize is not every weapons SHOULD be stong against every mech. You take PPCs and A/Cs to devastate enemy Assaults and Heavies. You don't take them to engage light mechs with.

Of course, this is yet another reason why in general mixed builds are better than boats. Typically with a mixed build, you have something to deal with anything you come across.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 27 July 2013 - 11:31 PM.

[Lord of All]

Bugged hit boxes.

Quote

many of you have cited hit detection errors. We’re seeing this as well. While it happens across almost all Mechs, it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis. Bumping damage is going to help deal a small amount more damage to small Mechs, but the larger Mechs are going to be destroyed VERY quickly. We are investigating the root cause of these detection errors but it’s a deep problem. We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind) or is it in the simulation running on the server etc etc. Once found we will be pouring heavy resources on to the problem to fix it ASAP. However, I can tell you this, it’s going to take a while to find due to its complexity.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2546576

Edited by Lord of All, 28 July 2013 - 03:04 AM.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Lord of All, on 28 July 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Bugged hit boxes.



http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2546576

No I understand that the hotboxes are bugged, but with jenners I can shoot slightly ahead of where I would shoot the image on my screen. My PPC graphic will miss, but I get the hitreg on my red crosshairs and see the damage on the paper doll.

No such thing for spiders. Hitting the model means nothing, but no amount of tweaking my shot leads gives me consistent hits.

Lol I don't have problems hitting the model. My aim is pretty good

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 28 July 2013 - 05:54 AM.

[Yiazmat]

Speed is life for lights. As a long time Jenner/Spider Jockey, I can honestly say people can hit me just fine if I'm not setting the squirrel to maximum.  Then, as a long time Atlas pilot, it's very hard to hit small mechs going 150kph. Even with beam weaponry, I know for a fact that my lasers miss a lot because i watch my beams go between arms and legs for a few milliseconds every burst. Between jj and twisting and speed,  it's the only real defence we have. I think Atli have more armor on their two legs and cockpit than spiders have on the whole machine. Also, remember that the spider is VERY spindly. meaning that it's arms and legs come out far from the torso. unlike the Jenner, which is more phallic. ppc/ac rounds CAN AND WILL go between a spider's arm and torso.

tl:dr, can't hit a light mech with your ppc/ac? mix up your flaming loadout. you wouldnt bring deer slugs to go dove hunting would you? (don't answer that you durps, rhetorical question).

Edited by Yiazmat, 28 July 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[Lord of All]

Yiazmat, on 28 July 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Speed is life for lights. As a long time Jenner/Spider Jockey, I can honestly say people can hit me just fine if I'm not setting the squirrel to maximum.  Then, as a long time Atlas pilot, it's very hard to hit small mechs going 150kph. Even with beam weaponry, I know for a fact that my lasers miss a lot because i watch my beams go between arms and legs for a few milliseconds every burst. Between jj and twisting and speed,  it's the only real defence we have. I think Atli have more armor on their two legs and cockpit than spiders have on the whole machine. Also, remember that the spider is VERY spindly. meaning that it's arms and legs come out far from the torso. unlike the Jenner, which is more phallic. ppc/ac rounds CAN AND WILL go between a spider's arm and torso.

tl:dr, can't hit a light mech with your ppc/ac? mix up your flaming loadout. you wouldnt bring deer slugs to go dove hunting would you? (don't answer that you durps, rhetorical question).

These bull "It's too fast for you" arguments are getting really tiring. PGI admits it. OK

Ive alpha'd spiders that are overheated literally face to face and done minor damage. I had a moron spider overheat 3 times in a cap point trying to stop me from capping and I did 3 (Count them 3) full alpha's dead CT at less than 10 meters and did not kill it. SO YES IT's BUGGED! AND My atlas is a brawler that chews through mechs with nothing but short range shredders.

[LordDante]

Lord of All, on 29 July 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

These bull "It's too fast for you" arguments are getting really tiring. PGI admits it. OK

Ive alpha'd spiders that are overheated literally face to face and done minor damage. I had a moron spider overheat 3 times in a cap point trying to stop me from capping and I did 3 (Count them 3) full alpha's dead CT at less than 10 meters and did not kill it. SO YES IT's BUGGED! AND My atlas is a brawler that chews through mechs with nothing but short range shredders.

and i will take that little in ur face troll baby into action as often as i can !

[Lord of All]

LordDante, on 29 July 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

and i will take that little in ur face troll baby into action as often as i can !

I hope you do, I still kill you all like the bugs you are.

It just takes longer.

[TDR3D]

I'd really like to see if anyone has any actual information about the topic at hand. I'd like to think people who care enough about the game already know about this mindless drivel on how to hit light mechs in general, so would be great to see spider specific comments.

From what I've witnessed from my PoV in a Jenner vs a spider, I can only imagine there is a lot of hitbox twitching / rubberbanding when moving, even at relatively low speeds. It would explain why no amount of varying degrees of target leading register any meaningful damage.

Edited by TDR3D, 29 July 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[Yiazmat]

Sorry, Lord of all, but that sounds like individual latency. every time i get stuck on terrain or overheat, I get one shot in my spiders. no ifs, no butts. shutdown, pow, dead spider.

[Tsula]

Ask Spiders I have killed with my A/C 10's.

[MisterFiveSeven]

TDR3D, on 29 July 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

I'd really like to see if anyone has any actual information about the topic at hand. I'd like to think people who care enough about the game already know about this mindless drivel on how to hit light mechs in general, so would be great to see spider specific comments.

From what I've witnessed from my PoV in a Jenner vs a spider, I can only imagine there is a lot of hitbox twitching / rubberbanding when moving, even at relatively low speeds. It would explain why no amount of varying degrees of target leading register any meaningful damage.

You have passed interwebz reading comp 101! +10 internets to you sir.

Seriously, how do people read my posts and come away with "lol nub can't hit lights cuz they too fast?"

But OT, with the jenner it makes sense because the fuselage (I think that what you should call it) protrudes pretty far from the body of the mech.

The spider is a barrel, so its torso is always occupying roughly the same space. Yet somehow the spider is worse...

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 29 July 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Skyfaller]

MisterFiveSeven, on 27 July 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

How do you hit Spiders with pinpoint weapons?

The only time you will do that is if they are static or running directly to or away from you.

It has nothing to do with the alleged bugged hit boxes (they are not bugged as far as hit registration) and everything to do with convergence.

Simply put, the weapons auto-converge only on the aimpoint distance. If you're firing at a spider and leading it (ballistic/ppc) then you are not aiming AT the spider's distance but at the terrain object behind it..which could be up to 2km away.

You fire weapons that converge at 2km... and they usually will whiz past either side of the spider. One in front the other behind it.

Now, they DO have bugged damage distribution. This happens to all mechs but more so in the small ones like spider and commando. This is what causes the perception that the spider takes ungodly damage and lives on.

A PPC hits the spider in the front CT armor for 10 damage. Spider has 20 front CT armor. If it was working correctly the front CT would turn orange in one hit.

..but it doesn't. Because the bug is making that 10 damage hit be distributed this way:

3.3 damage to front CT.
3.3 damage to rear CT.
3.3 damage to internal CT.

This seems to happen only when the hits register from directly in front and in this case, the front CT is the first armor section to take damage. Aka if it was a laser that hits the RT then slices to the CT then this damage pass-through does not apply. The damage has to start in the armor location.

You can see this happening all the time.. if a mech has red CT internal and no frontal CT armor..and its rear CT armor is intact...and it gives you its back to prevent his death... you shoot at his back...and his front CT blinks and explodes.

If you want to take down a light with non-laser weapons you need to aim at the ankles. That way your aimpoint will be at the ground where the light mech is (same distance) and your rounds will hit the same foot IF your lead aim is good. A legged light mech you can then hit his CT or the other leg with ease.

[Clit Beastwood]

MisterFiveSeven, on 28 July 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

No I understand that the hotboxes are bugged, but with jenners I can shoot slightly ahead of where I would shoot the image on my screen. My PPC graphic will miss, but I get the hitreg on my red crosshairs and see the damage on the paper doll.

No such thing for spiders. Hitting the model means nothing, but no amount of tweaking my shot leads gives me consistent hits.

Lol I don't have problems hitting the model. My aim is pretty good

heyyy you shouldn't be hotboxing your mech

seriously though, I'm a 90% spider pilot, and sometimes I get a ppc alpha or a dual gauss alpha and I just kaboom, it happens.. I also see *tons* of near misses - I think since so many high-alpha pilots are so used to blowing slower/less maneuverable mechs to bits with one click that since the spider doesn't do the same, it must be bugged. My biggest fear when running my spider isn't a hex pcc stalker or anything, it *used* to be anything with streaks and bap, but now it's lasers. Fire a laser and wave it at a spiders legs a few times and you'll leg it, guaranteed. Many pilots these days loading up with gauss, ac20, and ppc's for the pinpoint damage have disadvantaged themselves. Before the new heat penalties, a 5-6LL stalker was probably the most feared, because they basically had a light saber that could lop off one of my legs.

Sidenote: I occasionally get shot out of the air, as its the one time I can't change directions quickly. A while back I was fresh, like 30 seconds into the match, and a stalker on the other team caught me with a 6ppc hit as I was jump jetting. I became a firework, straight up - hilarious stuff. But a rare ppc-spider hit. Just use more lasers, and as I stated before

[Oppresor]

MisterFiveSeven, on 27 July 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

How do you hit Spiders with pinpoint weapons?

I've all but given up. Unless I have some lasers or they're shutdown, it's pretty much not worth shooting at them unless there are no other targets. I just make sure I'm with teammates (read jenner, raven, or swayback/bj buddies) so that they can peel them off me.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to hitting them, whether leading them different distances, shooting behind them, or trying to hit the image you see. And you can't really "follow through" with PPC, gauss or ac's.

Does anyone have anything that's worked for them?

PS I consistently ping 30-60, so MY latency doesn't appear to be a problem.

I shouldn't really tell you as I sometimes run a 5K Recon unit; but fair is fair, you need to go for the most beautiful weapon in the MWO arsenal, yes the LBX10 Scattershot! This beast is capable of seriously hurting a Spider.

[Lord of All]

Yiazmat, on 29 July 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Sorry, Lord of all, but that sounds like individual latency. every time i get stuck on terrain or overheat, I get one shot in my spiders. no ifs, no butts. shutdown, pow, dead spider.

My ping is never over 50 and usually 36. I'm right around the corner from the servers on fios.

Oppresor, on 29 July 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

I shouldn't really tell you as I sometimes run a 5K Recon unit; but fair is fair, you need to go for the most beautiful weapon in the MWO arsenal, yes the LBX10 Scattershot! This beast is capable of seriously hurting a Spider.

Correct, I use 2 LBX10's 3 Artemis srm6's and 2 MPL's. Should be the spiders worst nightmare.


Well I do swat them eventually but I'm telling you I can hit them with both of us not moving and do no to negligible damage.

I wish there was one on training grounds. I kill anymech in the game with 3 alpha's and most with 2 sometimes lights with 1 but those spiders just don't take the hit an inordinate amount of the time.

Edited by Lord of All, 29 July 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[Felio]

Play a spider, then tell me their hit detection is broken.

Maybe it is in some instances, I admit I wouldn't know for sure without shooting myself, but it will at least show you it isn't nearly as bad as you think it is.

My spiders get hit just as frequently and as hard as my other lights. Actually, my jenners live longer, owing to their slightly heavier armor.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Skyfaller, on 29 July 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

If you want to take down a light with non-laser weapons you need to aim at the ankles. That way your aimpoint will be at the ground where the light mech is (same distance) and your rounds will hit the same foot IF your lead aim is good. A legged light mech you can then hit his CT or the other leg with ease.

Will have to give this a shot (haha) and see.

Thanks!

[Leafia Barrett]

Felio, on 29 July 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Play a spider, then tell me their hit detection is broken.

Maybe it is in some instances, I admit I wouldn't know for sure without shooting myself, but it will at least show you it isn't nearly as bad as you think it is.

My spiders get hit just as frequently and as hard as my other lights. Actually, my jenners live longer, owing to their slightly heavier armor.

I generally survive longer in my Spider than my Jenner, but that's mainly because my framerate is so bad that moving and landing hits are mutually exclusive, and the Jenner is a gigantic front CT on legs - it's hard NOT to hit the front CT unless you're hitting the head instead. At least the Spider has different body parts to hit.