60 replies to this topic

[Vanguard319]

Between the nerf to their splash damage, and the new targeting mechanics, streak SRMs are not even worth using anymore. You fire at a target whose CT has no armor and red internals, and they will just continuously target areas that still have plenty of armor left. This has left mechs that rely on SRMs for most of their damage, like the commando and raven almost harmless if you destroy their energy weapons, as the streaks are completely unreliable when they're all you have left.

I would like to propose a fix:

Make streak SRMS work like they did in MechWarrior 4, where they would target the area that you were aiming at. For example, if you are aiming at the CT, they will focus on the CT, if you are aiming at a leg, they will focus on that leg, if fired while the target is out of your reticule, but still locked on, then the missiles will home in on the nearest area they can. The target can still mitigate the damage and keep them from hitting it's mark via torso twisting. Bear in mind, that not all the missiles will hit that area, but at least half will hit it the target does not move in such a way that blocks them.

This will help make Streaks at least usable again. If your target is getting cored, then it's his own damn fault for not using a damage mitigation tactic that has been around since closed beta.

If you feel that streaks are broken, but do not agree to what I suggested, then by all means, I invite you to offer your own suggestions.

[Nauht]

Don't rely on autolock streaks. Use your own skill, pick up some hard hitting SRMs and wreck it.

Lights just became more dangerous with the SRM buff.

[Huntsman]

While streaks were perhaps in need of a small nerf, there should be laws in place to protect game assets from the abuses that the devs inflicted upon streaks in the last patch.

Edited by Huntsman, 29 July 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

Huntsman, on 29 July 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

While streaks were perhaps in need of a small nerf, there should be laws in place to protect game assets from the abuses that the devs inflicted upon streaks in the last patch.

The law doesn't protect cheaters. Streaks are an auto-lock cheat in a game that's supposed to be decided by aiming and maneuvering skill.

[Unbound Inferno]

Sometimes I think PGI stands for Patch Griefing Incorporated in how they just grief the players between patches.

[Huntsman]

Either they gotta be useful, or they gotta be removed from the game. Since removing an asset core to the BT fiction isn't going to happen, and nor would you find many in support of such a course of action, we're left with only the former option. If the weapon spreads its damage that dramatically amongst the target's components in a game where focused damage is so key, then the weapon has negligible value.

[MoonUnitBeta]

As I mention in any thread regarding balance of streaks...

Bump damage to 2.0.
Implement minimum turning radius per distance traveled (E.g.: 90 degree turn over 45 meter arc)
Implement minimum traveling distance required before missiles seek targets (E.g.: 25meters from the point of firing, they are able to begin their seeking)
All else remains the same.

This implements the requirements for the user to aim (even though the missile is a lock-on item) and to compensate for the limitations of his or her weaponry. Streaks are not "fire-and-forget" weapons. The minute "fire-and-forget" weapons are on the table, the minute you start to encounter balancing issues, and exploitative behavior (such as, acquiring lock, running 3 meters away from targeted mech, and firing weapons while looking perpendicular to him.), unless they are unreasonably underpowered. There is no way to balance convenience unless you make convenience either: 1)inefficient (wrong), or 2)inconvenient (correct). Convenience cannot be balanced by inefficiency, because player skill, tact, and natural behavior will strive to make the convenience worth the inefficiency.

These changes will also give target-ees the chance to evade the lock-on "fire-and-forget" weapons. Giving them a chance for players to skillfully avoid or out maneuver these lock-on weapons gives a very gratifying feeling, and also endorses the skills of the pilot working to survive.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 30 July 2013 - 07:51 PM.

[jakucha]

They could use a slight buff in terms of targeting percentage or damage, but they're just streak 2s. Buff them too much and streak 6s will be broken when they appear.

Edited by jakucha, 29 July 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

There was hinting, or suggestions, that their working on refining the "splash" mechanic to place it back in the game. Right now we don't have it, but they'll replace it sometime with something that works.

The idea I heard was more centered around PPC where it'll have a partial up-front and somehow a splash that'll travel to nearby components, but not damage the one thats hit.

It'll make LRMs deadly as hell, and maybe push Streaks back to useful. Maybe.

PPCs will remain dominant and PGI will still fail to understand why...

Edited by Unbound Inferno, 29 July 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[Khobai]

Streak damage just needs to be increased. Its still 1.5 and needs to be at least 2.0

[Little Nemo]

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

Unbound Inferno, on 29 July 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

There was hinting, or suggestions, that their working on refining the "splash" mechanic to place it back in the game. Right now we don't have it, but they'll replace it sometime with something that works.

Are you positive that splash has been entirely removed? I thought that's why they were so hesitant to buff SRMs recently. Regardless, splash sucks: extra multiplier "ghost" damage that penalizes lights more than any other class (due to their closely bunched components) should never be in this game.

[Mystere]

Huntsman, on 29 July 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Either they gotta be useful, or they gotta be removed from the game. Since removing an asset core to the BT fiction isn't going to happen, and nor would you find many in support of such a course of action, we're left with only the former option. If the weapon spreads its damage that dramatically amongst the target's components in a game where focused damage is so key, then the weapon has negligible value.

There are people demanding that Spiders and PPCs be removed from the game, so why can't SSRMs get the same treatment?

[MoonUnitBeta]

jakucha, on 29 July 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

They could use a slight buff in terms of targeting percentage or damage, but they're just streak 2s. Buff them too much and streak 6s will be broken when they appear.

This is why the whole mechanic of how streaks travel through space and behave in-flight need to change. PGI will always be at a constant battle with themselves if they just move heat up, move damage down, move damage up, move heat down, change the targeting, do this, do that, everything BUT adding turning radius's and min range on streaks is just wasted time. It's also a tool for them to use as a controlling factor. they can go "Hmm.. they're doing too much damage, but we feel the damage is right, but something else isn't.. Increase the turning radius. Make the 90 degree arc, to... 40 meters. or 50. Actually we're noticing users firing them at a much too closer range, lengthen the minimum flight range on them by 5 meters.." There's so much more they can do. But they're just not doing it. What are we going to do when streak 6's come in - do something stupid like Streak SRM2's do 1.5 damage. Stream SRM6's do 1.2 damage?!!? PGI has no control!!! They're suffocating themselves. Look at this phantom heat! That's not control, that's a crutch! A life jacket, or a cast. They're handicapping themselves and making it harder to work with and control their game.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 29 July 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[Huntsman]

jakucha, on 29 July 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

They could use a slight buff in terms of targeting percentage or damage, but they're just streak 2s. Buff them too much and streak 6s will be broken when they appear.

You have nothing to fear. We are a long, long way from "too much." At worst the hit location distribution should be 5% per leg, 10% per arm (and shots going for the torso will also hit the arms at times, increasing this #), 20% per side torso, and 30% CT. Frankly I still think spreading the damage even that much is absurdly underpowered, but I'm forced to up my thinking based on the sheer ridiculousness that is the current state of SSRMs.

Edited by Huntsman, 29 July 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

streaks still work great vs light mechs.

Huntsman, on 29 July 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

You have nothing to fear. We are a long, long way from "too much." At worst the hit location distribution should be 5% per leg, 10% per arm (and shots going for the torso will also hit the arms at times, increasing this #), 20% per side torso, and 30% CT. Frankly I still think spreading the damage even that much is absurdly underpowered, but I'm forced to up my thinking based on the sheer ridiculousness that is the current state of SSRMs.

not true. with current ssrm dmg values an ssrm 6 would do 10 damage each, 6 SRM 6 would give you 54 damage, even with current ssrm design that is a lot of damage to 1 node vs even an assault mech.

[Master Q]

Huntsman, on 29 July 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

...in a game where focused damage is so key...

Focused damage isn't supposed to be the point of the game. In fact, focused damage has been the unbalancing bane of every single iteration of the Mechwarrior line to date, with the exception of the very first one where it was basically impossible to aim anyways.

Mechwarrior 2, focused damage was king. Pulse lasers and insane machinegun Daishis.

Mechwarrior 3 was LegSniperWarrior for the same reason.

Mechwarrior 4 at least had something to "kind of" balance it with the hardpoint system, but once you got to Omnis or the Assault Boats... meh.

MW:LL - do tell.

"Focused damage is the key" - no, autoconvergence alphas (the end-all and be-all of focused damage) is the bane.

[Brilig]

Randomish location damage for guaranteed hits seems like a fair trade. If they are still doing less damage than normal SRMs I wouldn't be against seeing them buffed to the same damage.

[Huntsman]

I didn't say that streaks should continue to all hit the same place now did I? They do need to hit the same place at least a reasonable amount of the time however.

[One Medic Army]

Huntsman, on 29 July 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

I didn't say that streaks should continue to all hit the same place now did I? They do need to hit the same place at least a reasonable amount of the time however.

Look on the bright side, you can now leg light mechs with streaks.
Seeing as most light mechs take a good amount of damage to their legs to begin with, you can easily finish off a leg in late-match with streaks, then use your cumbersome aimed weapons to vaporize the 5kph pile of metal.