230 replies to this topic

[Gwaihir]

https://twitter.com/...602345491742721

This just in guys, LRMs, SRMs, and lasers are pinpoint damage.

[Gallowglas]

Fooooo, on 31 July 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

That said, maybe the idea is to only apply this effect to the crit seeker weapons?? (LBX, MGS etc)
Or maybe reduce the crit dmg for other weapons etc.
Or have a seperate % for each weapon.

Like say MGS get 100% crit dmg turned into IS dmg.
AC/20's get 10% of crit dmg turned into IS dmg. (2dmg per crit)

etc etc.

If it applied to every weapon the same, then yes mechs are going to go down faster but its always been better to use a high dmg weapon anyway. 1 crit from an ac/20 will knock out any component + transfer mor dmg than an MG. 1 crit from an MG bullet wont knock out anything and will do nothing to IS.

I'd agree. IF that's the plan, then I could get behind it. However, because it still ends up reducing the amount of time a mech spends alive once it goes internal, I'd strongly argue that the internal structure needs to be increased significantly. The idea could work if you did that AND made each weapon transfer a different % of its damage to components to internals AND made it so that gyros, actuators, etc. could also be hit and have some in-game effect. Put all those in play and, yes, it would be a great system. Until that happens though, I think this just sounds like mechs will die faster, which isn't compelling.

[Vintage Rum]

DOES ANYONE ELSE AGREE THAT THERE ARE ENORMOUS HEAT BUGS WITH AUTO CANNON SEQUENTIAL FIRING?

[Matthew Craig]

If you suspect a bug with Auto Cannon chain firing, please log a support ticket with as much detail as possible on how to quickly reproduce the issue. This way the support team can enter it into our system and it can be assigned to a developer to work on much faster once the repro steps are confirmed.

Thanks

[Gwaihir]

Vintage Rum, on 31 July 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

DOES ANYONE ELSE AGREE THAT THERE ARE ENORMOUS HEAT BUGS WITH AUTO CANNON SEQUENTIAL FIRING?

If you're referring to AC2s (I think you probably are), then it's technically not a bug. It is right there in itemstats.xml, to give AC2s a ~GHOST HEAT~ penalty. Whether or not they meant to put it in there is a different question, but it's just the system functioning as intended.

As far as chain fire, I would suspect that, given AC2 rate of fire is .5 seconds between shots, same as the interval for triggering ghost heat, that that would be the problem right there.

(Also it is of course laughable that AC2s were tagged for heat scaling penalties at all, because I don't know about you, but when I think of "high damage pinpoint alphas" I too think of the lowest burst damage weapon in the game next to the machine gun.)

[VagGR]

whatever you do..please for the love of God..do NOT make mechs even more fragile..if anything make them more durable

[Coolant]

Did Paul or another dev ever respond to the wording on Paul's balancing post? Thinking about putting on a machine gun two if critting on components gives a chance to crit on internals if that is what was meant. It is really confusing how it is worded...

[Erata]

Horrace, on 30 July 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

The real problem is that people are not playing the game the way it was intended. Everyone taking the mech lab as an indication that you can fit whatever fits on your mech need to learn that using more than two of each weapon is grossly unfair to other players.

This heat scale system isn't that complicated as long as you remember two of each weapon type only, I find the best combination is some form of long range weapon system and then a entirely different sort of long range weapon system.

You're my hero. You're fighting the good fight and helping elevate our playerbase to a whole new level so that we may only find ourselves fighting the finest pilots.

[Deathlike]

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 31 July 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

If you're up against a decent light pilot, you'll have some trouble landing PPC shots. LPL on the other hand is hitscan, and made for blowing legs off.

Unfortunately, I've killed enough light mechs with PPC practice due to the current meta. I'm sure there will be more to follow.

LPL will get me killed if I have to brawl, because the enemy will most likely outrange me (LL, PPC, ERPPC, Gauss) and light mechs are usually the least of my problems then.

If worse comes to worse, MEDIUM LASERS are still MORE USEFUL than LPL.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 July 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[John MatriX82]

Seismic nerf. Ok it was op but.. what about making it like a sonar "ping" that updates enemy known position only once in between 2, 3 seconds? Like a slower Aliens movement sensor. By this, you wouldn't be able to truly know the number or track down each target because you have to guess if the first ping is always the same in another position or if there is a standing mech and you're seeing 2 or more.

Second idea, range: ramp back it up to 400m if you are standing still. Whenever you move, your max range decreases to 250 like it is now.

Upgrade and usefulness preserved, less op, more suspence when employing it. They're coming outta the ******* walls!!!

Mixing SRM4s to srm6 and ramping up the heat scale like 3xSRM4 + SRM6 = you're shooting 4 SRM6? Is this correct?

Now using 4 SRM4s is op? Really? 16 srms? Why then mechs can mount them freely?
Please rethink everything and consider and hardpoint restriction system. These heat scales are clumsy, not understandeable and not effective. I keep seeing 3xPPC 1 GR Highlanders everywhere nevertheless!

Edited by John MatriX82, 31 July 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[ObsidianSpectre]

I missed the bullet point about getting rid of the terrible ghost heat system. I hope this was only an oversight, and that PGI does the smart thing and kills it next patch.

[ShadowbaneX]

One Medic Army, on 30 July 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Actually, we've been able to damage the engine for a long time, just that there's no effect for having a damaged engine, except during R&R when the repair cost made you cry on an XL.

Might give MG spiders a slightly better ability to actually kill mechs, since shooting an exposed CT might transfer some of the engine damage into the actual useful form of internal structure damage.

Perhaps...but having a damaged engine and the associated heat penalties, might also make things more interesting.

[Vintage Rum]

Gwaihir, on 31 July 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

If you're referring to AC2s (I think you probably are), then it's technically not a bug. It is right there in itemstats.xml, to give AC2s a ~GHOST HEAT~ penalty. Whether or not they meant to put it in there is a different question, but it's just the system functioning as intended.

As far as chain fire, I would suspect that, given AC2 rate of fire is .5 seconds between shots, same as the interval for triggering ghost heat, that that would be the problem right there.

(Also it is of course laughable that AC2s were tagged for heat scaling penalties at all, because I don't know about you, but when I think of "high damage pinpoint alphas" I too think of the lowest burst damage weapon in the game next to the machine gun.)

Thank you for pointing this out, I had to dive in and find that xml... I just knew it started happening patch before last but couldnt find anything in the patch notes pertaining to the ac2's ( which yes I am using ac2 in a machine gun fashion). I use my dragon 5n with 3 ac2's an AMS and 3 heat syncs 600 rounds and nothing else. A lot of people would call this a cheese build and i would agree, however for its strengths it has it also as HUGE weaknesses ( e.g. blow off my gun arm im done) This comp of course would be more op on jager so I do see the issues. But as someone who has already dropped a lot of money on this game I will be very upset if this heat model is not refined to give some lead way to unconventional builds. The best part of this game was designing a mech as well as you could to your tastes. If you really just force cookie cutters this game will be boring and dead all too quick except for the hardcore loyalists ( no offense to anyone I really do enjoy this game as much as the next guy). I do know how to play as you would have me do..but if the variety of play style will be limited this way I will not be playing very long.

Edited by Vintage Rum, 31 July 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Hammertrial]

Matthew Craig, on 31 July 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

If you suspect a bug with Auto Cannon chain firing, please log a support ticket with as much detail as possible on how to quickly reproduce the issue. This way the support team can enter it into our system and it can be assigned to a developer to work on much faster once the repro steps are confirmed.

Thanks

Just fire more than 9 times with less than .5s between each shot. This is easily done by setting up two weapon groups, and firing them slightly off, either full auto (AC/2 only) or chained (Ac/2 or small/small pulse laser).

The result is easy to see. The AC/2 (and likely the small laser and small pulse that with a macro you can also trigger heat penalties for) have a "max alpha" value of 9 (the most hardpoints any mech can have) and a multiplier of 1. But seeing your heat scale goes out to 12, those last three shots generate heat that is identical (though testing) to having heat penalties using the base heat of the AC/2 * (heat scale for 10 + 11 + 12) * 1.

And yes, I have submitted a ticket and was told this is a known issue.

Edited by Hammertrial, 31 July 2013 - 11:33 AM.

[Khobai]

+1 heat not gonna fix ppcs. Theyre just gonna be combod with gauss to deal with the heat. alphastriking is still going to be too strong.

lowering heat on the er large laser is a good idea.

lower beam duration on lasers is also a good idea.

[Adrius ADI Manthays]

- A % of critical damage done to the internals of a component will be applied directly to the inner structure of that component.

= faster deaths in our paper mechs?

- Large and medium pulse lasers are going to have their beam durations reduced.

= hm...?

- ER Large Laser is going to have its base heat reduced.

= hm...?

- PPC and ERPPCs will be bumped by 1 base heat each.

= definitely not enough! 2-3 maybe + after more then 2-3 ppc a mech are fired he have no more energy for 10 seconds . a ppc need very much of energy!

rgr&out

[JediPanther]

Another fine path that makes the game unplayable. Now it won't even launch after a full reinstall and two hours waiting to patch hoping it would run today. Time to go back to swtor and hope after a few more patches the game works in 20xx.

[Arbalister]

Suri Curume, on 30 July 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

It's not testing because we're not given anything to test. I'm saying what should be done. There is still just as much whining now as there would be if they had changed values every week. There is going to be whining either way, but imagine if there were whining AND stuff was getting done.

I was here in closed beta. There were discussions between the beta group, and the devs. In fact, it wasn't uncommon to hop in game for a few games with Russ, or Paul, or several of the other PGI guys. Live, in teamspeak discussion of problems, tactics, weapon balance, builds, etc. I was part of a select group that worked *heavily* on diagnosing and then testing a patched client for a particular crash to desktop issue - with direct access to the dev trying to repro and fix the problem.

At the start of "open beta" that changed pretty dramatically. Just about the same time that the signal to noise ratio in these forums went to heck. That's what happens. It becomes less about testing then about people whining every time a change affects them personally.

I've been involved in literally dozens of game betas, and a good chunk of those are for online games, since Asheron's Call in 1998. This happens in all of them. Dev interaction with the playerbase eventually dries up, as the whining and bitching drives them out of the forums. And, honestly, I can't blame them.

Quote

I understand that they are a small company. But they do have a major asset. The MechWarrior IP brought a lot of people to them. They should be USING us. Give us the aggressive changes and let us show you how we'd break the game. Hell, people who are bored with the stagnant gameplay options would at least be able to log in and see "What's broken in a funny way this week?" and enjoy making crazed builds that should never work. That would keep a lot of the momentum going through the beta and lead us into launch.

Can't do it when you can't control the player base. We have far more people here that are here for no reason other then to play the game for free. "Open Beta" means nothing to them.

That's why there is now a test server.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

So...


This has proven that PGI has no ***** idea what they're doing with Pulse Lasers.

YOU NEED TO RE WORK THE WEAPON FROM SCRATCH SO IT IS A DIFFERENT WEAPON ENTIRELY THAN STANDARD BEAM LASERS

[Lightfoot]

MWO needs to come back to MechWarrior and group-fire and stop turning the game into Heavy Gear and Hawken where they don't have enough weapons on the robots to group. It's a conceptual shift away from the new oppressive heat scaling that has no place in MechWarrior.

In MechWarrior you group like weapons to fire them and the Mechs just need to be tough enough to take the damage. Breaking your weapons down into 2x groups to fire them is not MechWarrior, it's Heavy Gear, Hawken, or Front Mission styled gameplay. I hope everyone understands what a huge shift away from MechWarrior Mech functionality this Heat Scale nerf is. If not, you could go re-visit MechWarrior 3 and MechWarrior 4 and see how those games handled group-fire of numerous weapons.

I have adjusted to the Heat Scale nerf and fire my weapons in groups of two. I see the value of it. It's just a total revoking of MechWarrior style gameplay which has group-fired weapons as it's core mechanic.

And I just get this feeling that the Heat Scale nerf is just a hot fix for larger problems. Maybe mechlab, maybe the mechs are just too weak to damage.

Edited by Lightfoot, 01 August 2013 - 07:19 AM.