230 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

One Medic Army, on 30 July 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

First point: no we're not getting through-armor damage.

Well, I need that point explained thoroughly then. Diagrams are a plus.

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Second point: lower beam duration is a buff. Lower beam duration means less time required on-target, more concentrated damage, and shorter recycle.

I understand what he's changing, but that doesn't actually change the more serious problems with those weapons.. mainly damage and heat, which for the most part is inferior when you have to consider your heat dissipation in conjunction with the lowered range.

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Third point: Well currently, yeah, but these are coming at the same time as a heat increase on the PPCs, which will hopefully give LL it's place again.

LL always has/had a place... it's just that the current meta favors PPCs that much more.

[Skadi]

Deathlike, on 30 July 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

LL always has/had a place... it's just that the current meta favors PPCs that much more.

Right now LL's has their place...
in a garbage can.

Edited by Skadi, 30 July 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Chavette]

Hello Paul. Can you explain me why the LLaser has such a small max heat penalty grouping value(sigh) as 2?

For example, a 4 or 5LL stalker was never seen as overpowered, and it was quite fun... it wasn't pinpoint damage either.

Are there chances of revisiting these sometimes unfair numbers? The 6MLaser gives 30 damage before penalty but 2LLaser gives only 18. This is less than the PPCs damage, the one the system was invented against.

Edited by Chavette, 30 July 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[arghmace]

Deathlike, on 30 July 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

You missed the part where LPL got a major nerf prior to the patch

No, I'm quite aware of that. But your post above really gave the impression that lowering the beam time would be a nerf when in fact it's a buff.

Anyways the LPL is too hot, agreed. But as stated in here: http://mwomercs.com/...st-paul-inouye/

"Large Energy Weapons will be going through multiple iterations in terms of their base performance variables. Cooldown, durations, heat, damage are all being looked at."

So do not throw away hope, it may be their heat is looked at later on. Anyway increasing the heat on PPC and lowering the beam time on LPL is not something to frown upon. It will certainly make the game more balanced.

Stop complaining so much even when the news are good, ffs.

[Erata]

Thanks, Paul Inouye.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

Can we get a better explanation of those internals changes? Because it looks like you're saying that any time you would get a crit to a system, you also do extra damage to internal structure HP. That would mean that every single weapon in the game kills mechs faster, and overly-short time to kill already causes unsatisfying instant deaths before you can recover, and favors snipers.

[grml666]

And the luncher doesn't work ....

[Deathlike]

Chavette, on 30 July 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Hello Paul. Can you explain me why the LLaser has such a small max heat penalty grouping value(sigh) as 2?

For example, a 4 or 5LL stalker was never seen as overpowered, and it was quite fun... it wasn't pinpoint damage either.

Are there chances of revisiting these sometimes unfair numbers? The 6MLaser gives 30 damage before penalty but 2LLaser gives only 18.

The only "logical" reason to the LL limits is because of range considerations. 2 PPCs are 20 damage but have the optimal range of 540m.

Med lasers on the other hand with 6 meds @ 30 damage will only work its magic @ 270m.

Of course, that doesn't stop 2 Gauss Rifles doing 30 damage at 660m.

[Skadi]

Deathlike, on 30 July 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Of course, that doesn't stop 2 Gauss Rifles doing 30 damage at 660m.

inb4 heat penalty on gauss rifles.

[Monky]

Tezcatli, on 30 July 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

I'm not sure that the reducing the duration on pulse laser beams is a good idea. Isn't that promoting more pin-point alpha striking? And you're still having to deal with an extra ton/2tons as well as the extra heat. I was honestly hoping that one of those things would get reduced. This really isn't the buff I thought it would be. On the one hand it's easier to deliver damage to one spot. On the other you're still weighing the bonus versus the extra heat and the extra weight.

Beam time is huge for all lasers, little tweaks previously to laser duration made big differences in viability (have been in since closed beta). The issue with LPL's and MPL's is that they weigh more, are hotter, shorter ranged and deal only slightly more damage, without any noticeable benefit for this extra penalty currently. Weight isn't going to change, and everything else can't change too much, beam time however can be a highly effective buff. A hit scan weapon that deals most of its damage in one location is valuable.

[Druidika]

Six weeks from release and you're still introducing completely new mechanics into the game.

What is the gameplay goal that additional internal damage is supposed to achieve?

An important part of MechWarrior for me was always walking around in heavily damaged mechs, fighting desperate fights. Making mechs die even faster doesn't help that.

Edited by Druidika, 30 July 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Chavette]

Deathlike, on 30 July 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

The only "logical" reason to the LL limits is because of range considerations. 2 PPCs are 20 damage but have the optimal range of 540m.

Med lasers on the other hand with 6 meds @ 30 damage will only work its magic @ 270m.

Of course, that doesn't stop 2 Gauss Rifles doing 30 damage at 660m.

Still it hits very, very far from the pintpoint alpha problem they intended to address with this system. Its all collateral damage, just like the light mech JJ nerf.

[MyszTrap]

Well I am sitting here scratching my head wondering what these changes are suppose to well,change?
　
A whole plus one to PPC heat? Really? So instead of getting off 11 chain fired ppcs from my quad PPC catapult, i'll get what, 10? Woopiedoda, I'll be leaving it and my PPC stalker just how they are.
　
I think Paul is really missing the point of why people take PPCs... it is called PINPOINT damage, you aim, you fire, you duck behind cover while your shot travels to its target, with no need to hold your cursor over the target while the beam finishes. Add this to mechs with high mounted energy points and bring on the pain! Oh lets not forget that ERPPCs, being a long range weapon can still track and do full damage at close range!
　
Maybe someday they will realize that almost every issue they are experiencing with both mech and weapon balancing could have been resolved with hard point restrictions (not to mention it would give more variant options to sell...).
On the plus side, at least i don't have to worry about removing my ppcs anytime soon it seems...

[Sable]

Now just take that last step and reduce PPC projectile speed and the circle of life will be complete!!!


.... and i can come back and play again!!

Edited by Sable, 30 July 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Chronojam]

Druidika, on 30 July 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Six weeks from release and you're still introducing completely new mechanics into the game.

What is the gameplay goal that additional internal damage is supposed to achieve?

An important part of MechWarrior for me was always walking around in heavily damaged mechs, fighting desperate fights. Making mechs die even faster doesn't help that.

No kidding! Mechs need a much larger pool of internal health so that there is something meaningful there, you can stumble around getting components shot out, trying to wrangle your dying machine as systems go offline, your HUD starts to decay or blank out, etc. Not being cored by a volley of LRMs (these aren't too bad except for the fact they love the CT) or dropping instantly because one of the long-range high-alpha flavor-of-the-year guys and his buddy snapped a shot from just above a ridgeline from across the map.

[Deathlike]

arghmace, on 30 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

No, I'm quite aware of that. But your post above really gave the impression that lowering the beam time would be a nerf when in fact it's a buff.

All I was suggesting was that it didn't really address more of the core problems of the weapon itself. I can kinda imagine it being in a different niche of a hit and run weapon, but the range and heat makes the PPC equally viable for the same task.

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So do not throw away hope, it may be their heat is looked at later on. Anyway increasing the heat on PPC and lowering the beam time on LPL is not something to frown upon. It will certainly make the game more balanced.

The difference in the projected changes looks like this:

LPL
7 tons, 2 slots
10.6 damage
3.25s cooldown
.5s duration (best guestimate)
8.6 heat
300m optimal

PPC
7 tons, 3 slots
10 damage
4s cooldown
9 heat
540m optimal, 90m min

If you take a look at the base numbers and the projected usage, the PPC is still a better choice than the LPL at doing the same thing, despite the slight heat increase and slot usage.

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Stop complaining so much even when the news are good, ffs.

The changes are mediocre at best.

Edit: Fixed the cooldown on the LPL.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 July 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Tennex]

these energy weapon changes seem reasonable.
though LPL heat is still a bit overthetop

on the topic of ER lasers
IMO the range extension you pay with the heat, is useless since nobody can hold that beam over such a long duration, and still be able to do damage at long range..

of course the PPC heat increase is welcomed.

These changes all seem good for the current ssytem.


though personally i would like to see pulse lasers' mechanic completely reworked to distinguish it from the other 2 types of lasers. Then the ER class of lasers can have their beam duration lowered, to make long range use more reasonable.

this way all 3 weapon types stay distinct, instead of being on some strange spectrum, where only the min max are good.

Edited by Tennex, 30 July 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[One Medic Army]

Deathlike, on 30 July 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Well, I need that point explained thoroughly then. Diagrams are a plus.

Crits only occur when the armor on a component is gone and damage is dealt to the internal structure, crits are damage to the internal components which are in addition to damage to the internal components.

What this seems to indicate, is that when you're hitting internal components with say an MG, you will be dealing some additional damage to the internal structure.

My big question is will this have any effect if I shoot an MG into an exposed location which contains no internal components?

Edited by One Medic Army, 30 July 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Nebelfeuer]

• A % of critical damage done to the internals of a component will be applied directly to the inner structure of that component.

??? - not sure what you exactly want to tell us but if it means more destruction by crits then it´s probably not a good idea

• Large and medium pulse lasers are going to have their beam durations reduced.

Would have loved to see a 30% rangeincrease instead. Current beamduration feels is already better then of it´s normal coounterparts but we do not need more pinpoint weapons.

• ER Large Laser is going to have its base heat reduced.

Another bad idea IMHO current heat difference between ERLL and LL feels right for the rangegain and makes you consider twice witch weapon to choose

• PPC and ERPPCs will be bumped by 1 base heat each.

This one is good i think

[ShadowbaneX]

zizi05105, on 30 July 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

means your internal structure can be damaged even you still have armor on

No, it doesn't.

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A % of critical damage done to the internals of a component will be applied directly to the inner structure of that component.

It means when you get a crit, ie blow out heat sinks or a weapon, some (more) damage will be dealt to the structure. It's still mostly useless as we can't damage actuators, the engine or the gyro.