37 replies to this topic

[Xerxys]

I just caught something about the medium laser that I thought was wrong and after checking online a bit I found that MWO is running them too hot.

Medium lasers in the BTU only generate 3 heat, but MWO is running them at 4. I know this may not seem like much to anyone else, but if you run something like the hunchie or the BlackJack in their all energy loadouts and use the medium lasers that's 8-9 additional heat generated on an alpha strike. I've been away from the game for a while and was just wondering why PGI felt inclined to bend over the energy weapon lovers yet again. Even at only 4 ML's you're generating 16 heat per shot if shooting all 4 lasers, and most likely more since the heat system adds heat for multiple weapons being fired.

Was their a reason for this increase? I searched around the forums, but didn't see anything.

I saw a lot of people bitching about heat being an issue. Is this PGI's solution to a broken heat system? I've only just started using ballistics and I did so because they're the only weapons worth running anymore. Nothing else will put out the damage as fast and accurately as the ballistic weapons. Lasers go all over the place and PPC's and missiles splash everywhere as well. Add to this major drawback the immense heat generated from these weapons and they're just north of worthless.

Since I've started using mostly ballistics I have not overheated more than 2 or 3 times and my damage output has skyrocketed. My damage was averaging ~300 using SRMs and energy weapons that varied, and has jumped to about 10 to 15 matches that I have had under 500 damage. Everyone seems to use ammo as the big qualifier as to energy weapons being the way that they are, but they don't seem to understand that you pretty much have to have dbl heat sinks and your critical slots filled with them to make the weapons close to viable and you'll still overheat constantly. Fire control is the other big argument people throw out and I'll be the first to admit that I usually know when I'm about to overheat and I'll take the next shot anyways because I think it's going to be the kill shot, otherwise I have very good fire control. Since using ballistics, though, I have thrown fire control out the window because I don't need it, and I only run out of ammo twice. Usually I have enough for a second match left over after the first match ends.

My switch to ballistics occurred when I bought the Firebrand and swapped everything out to run dual gauss, 4 small lasers and 5 tons of gauss ammo. I have since been enjoying many close to 700 damage games with 3+ kills. It's so easy by comparison, I can't help but wonder why people don't think energy weapons need a little love. Missiles are just about perfect with exception of the massive heat they generate. It probably wouldn't be as much of an issue if I wasn't having to throw them on with lasers. Between the two weapons systems the heat build up is WAY too high. The damage dealt is about the same as ballistic weapons its just spread out all over the place instead of concentrated like you get from ballistic weapons.

It would really be interesting to see the game where all weapons were balanced out, and people could freely choose their preferred weapons instead of being forced into one weapon type if they want to be effective.

Anyways, this was a question that turned into a bit of a rant. I apologize for that, but I do wonder why the heat generated from MLs and perhaps other energy weapons was increased.

*** The missiles I've been using are SRMs and I don't know how LRMs affect heat I'm just assuming they're as bad as SRMs. ***

[FupDup]

The reason for the increase, so I've heard, was because the Swayback was OP at one during closed beta due to netcode making projectiles too hard to hit with, and a lack of engine restrictions (can make Hunchie go really fast). Of course, neither of those two conditions is still true but the nerf remains in place regardless.

Edited by FupDup, 30 July 2013 - 09:29 PM.

[One Medic Army]

FupDup, on 30 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

The reason for the increase, so I've heard, was because the Swayback was OP at one during closed beta due to netcode making projectiles too hard to hit with, and a lack of engine restrictions (can make Hunchie go really fast). Of course, neither of those two conditions is still true but the nerf remains in place regardless.

Nah, that Swayback used small lasers.
They boosted the ML because back in closed beta everyone boated the everloving **** out of it to save tonnage for the massive number of SHS required to cool yourself.

[Khobai]

Classic PGI kneejerk balance decision. They nerfed lasers to 4 heat because of swaybacks. Then once the swaybacks engine was capped to balance it they never lowered the laser heat back to 3.

[nitra]

medium lasers was the bane of battle tech .. most efficent weapon .

stack a bunch of medium lasers on a mech and you tear through just about nything.

the 4 heat helps along with pgi's take on how lasers work . i think they did a great job of keeping it a serious threat while not making it the default choice for maxium damage.

[Tor6]

nitra, on 30 July 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

medium lasers was the bane of battle tech .. most efficent weapon .

stack a bunch of medium lasers on a mech and you tear through just about nything.

the 4 heat helps along with pgi's take on how lasers work . i think they did a great job of keeping it a serious threat while not making it the default choice for maxium damage.

If it weren't for this nerf we'd be overrun by 20 ML atlai and 18 ML stalkers. I for one am glad we have it.

[One Medic Army]

Tor6, on 30 July 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

If it weren't for this nerf we'd be overrun by 20 ML atlai and 18 ML stalkers. I for one am glad we have it.

Anyone else find it funny that the two mechs in the game with the most energy hardpoints are 45 and 50ton mechs?

[CancR]

Because the Fraud Squad cant focus down a single component

[nitra]

yeah, i never have been a big fan of the hard point system.

but it gives some of the mechs flavor although it drives me nuts we dont have an assult class with side by side ballistics.

[MaxStr]

The issue is that you are looking at medium lasers and not fitting at least 2 PPCs on your mech.

[Ph30nix]

Tor6, on 30 July 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

If it weren't for this nerf we'd be overrun by 20 ML atlai and 18 ML stalkers. I for one am glad we have it.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

thats what i would say if i saw one then i would just sit at 600 meters with either a large laser, a ppc or some lrms and laugh as they try to waddle towards me like the fat kid at school after you take his twinkie.

[Farix]

Tor6, on 30 July 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

If it weren't for this nerf we'd be overrun by 20 ML atlai and 18 ML stalkers. I for one am glad we have it.

How many mechs can care more than 6 energy weapons? HBK-4P with 9, BJ-1X with 8, AWS-8Q with 7, BLR-1G with 7.

So I don't see any 20 ML atlases or 18 ML stalkers.

Though I do think that medium energy weapons should get a 0.5 reduction in heat. This will put them more in line with the heat to damage curve of the other energy weapons instead of putting out more heat than a large laser and (until recently) PPC for the equivalent amount of damage.

Edited by Farix, 31 July 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Given it is 1 ton, 1 Slot and 5 damage. Heat @ 4 is Moot, as you can still carry 6 before an increase under the Heat penalty. Never under estimate a 30 pt alpha to your rear end when your not expecting it. Especially now with the Seismic reductions.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 31 July 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[Ph30nix]

MaddMaxx, on 31 July 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Given it is 1 ton, 1 Slot and 5 damage. Heat @ 4 is Moot, as you can still carry 6 before an increase under the Heat penalty. Never under estimate a 30 pt alpha to your rear end when your not expecting it. Especially now with the Seismic reductions.

problem is lights that can basically carry no other weapon are severely penalized by the extra heat. I don't see 2-4 Ml as an alpha even if its all the weapons your carrying. but even group firing in a light your not going to get off many attacks before your about to over heat.

Not that lights can't still be effective but its another thing holding them back and in the heavier mechs its barely an issues since they have the tonnage and crit slots to load up more DHS.

[zorak ramone]

nitra, on 30 July 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

medium lasers was the bane of battle tech .. most efficent weapon .

stack a bunch of medium lasers on a mech and you tear through just about nything.

the 4 heat helps along with pgi's take on how lasers work . i think they did a great job of keeping it a serious threat while not making it the default choice for maxium damage.

The bane of CBT was not MLs. It was GRs for the IS, and every last heavy clan energy weapon and GRs on the clan side.

Even though 3xML did the same damage as a GR, the GR did all of its damage in one spot. Its kind of like CBT's version of the MWO big alpha vs DPS problem.

Also, with MLs at 4 heat, they have EXACTLY the same Damage/heat as PPCs, and LESS damage/heat than LLs. When tonnage is less limiting than hardpoint space (i.e. on an Assault or most heavies), this makes the ML worthless.

It also means that mechs that don't have the tonnage to mass PPCs/LLs (i.e. meds and lights) don't actually have a close range advantage versus a PPC-centric heavy or assault: after the mechs are built, the main limiting factor in firepower is heat, and those meds/lights are putting out the same or less damage/heat out of their energy hardpoints as the asssaults/heavies.

[Stardancer01]

Medium lasers are meant to have an unfair advantage to encourage brawling.
This heat bonus hurts brawling medium mechs the most, no wander people avoid the near extinct medium mech.

Edited by Stardancer01, 31 July 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[Dan Nashe]

Mls were broken overpowered in custom tabletop per ton, and even better in mwo.
Correction, they were broken with super good pilots who could hit a 9 hexes.

In mwo, everyone can hit at 9 hexes, and its really easy to close to 9 hexes.
So mls needed and still need athe heat nerf.
2 tons, 10 damage 6 heat at 270 meters? Way too good.
I

[Lightfoot]

MWO

Ballistics= , Energy= , Missiles=

I hate it, but I can beat it. It just gets very one dimensional compared to earlier MechWarrior games.

[Ph30nix]

DanNashe, on 31 July 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Mls were broken overpowered in custom tabletop per ton, and even better in mwo.
Correction, they were broken with super good pilots who could hit a 9 hexes.

In mwo, everyone can hit at 9 hexes, and its really easy to close to 9 hexes.
So mls needed and still need athe heat nerf.
2 tons, 10 damage 6 heat at 270 meters? Way too good.
I

ye that 270 meters is so dangerous i mean especially when there are NO weapons with longer ranges to combat them.

[No Guts No Glory]

Seriously? None of the weapons are 100% TT stats, so what's the problem? That extra 1 point of heat per laser isn't an issue. Unless you use single heatsinks, but single heatsinks suuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.