170 replies to this topic

[DragonsFire]

Deanblee, on 30 August 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

If they had provided the workarounds rather than the community you would have had a valid point but they didn't!

They provided in the sense that they put the workarounds in the spotlight after vetting them out as viable, so I'm not sure how my point is any less valid?

Edit: Also, have you even attempted the workarounds?

Edited by DragonsFire, 30 August 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[42and19]

Cragger, on 29 August 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Might want to stop before your entire face is brown. PGI released an update that caused this issue. Avast did not. MWO is the only title out of the 42 titles I have installed through steam and 30 titles installed outside of steam plus the other 115 programs on my network to have ever had or still be experiencing this issue.

Please read and research before committing to brown nosing.

Wow, nice personal attack.

QUICK SOMEONE TRIES TO MEDIATE THE HATE! KILL HIM!!!!!

ALSO

This bug IS present in other games suggesting that it is not JUST mwo and pgi.

That being said there is A LOT of things that pgi HASN"T done that **** me off but that is another matter.

If you had taken even an iota of time to look at my pasts posts you would see that I am not 100% happy with this game or with pgi as is.



Edit:

Just recieved a response from Russ on twitter.

"This one is weird as the binary is properly signed, they are working on it."

You can see the response on his twitter page.

They are working on the issue it's just a much larger problem than many of the other things that they have had to tackle in the last month. So you are seeing fixes for smaller things while this is being worked on. That DOES NOT mean they are abandoning you all.

I want to say that this issue is frustrating to me as well. I finally convinced one of my friends to try MWO right after that patch and he is unable to play due to the same reasons. The best thing we can do is send as much info to the developers as possible rather than sitting here and bitching about it. Nagging NEVER moves things faster.


Further Edit: My friend just discovered that you can exclude specific .exe files from avast sandboxing and this fixed his issue. Something worth looking into that won't completely leave your computer at risk.

Edited by 42and19, 30 August 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Mr Gneiss]

So, I've found another workaround that worked for me.

Basically what I did was I excluded the MechWarriorOnline.exe from being Autosandboxed by Avast. The following is a quick walk-through to exclude the .exe:

>Open the "Avast user interface"
>Open the "Security" tab
>Click the "Antivirus" tab and then the "File System Shield"
>Click the "Settings" button right next to the "Start" and "Stop" buttons
>A new window should open and you should Click the "AutoSandbox" tab
>At the bottom of the menu there should be a field that says "Files that will be excluded from automatic sandboxing:"
>Browse to wherever you installed MechWarrior Online (mine is looks like this:
E:\Program Files (x86)\PiranhaGames\MechWarrior Online\Bin32) and find the "Bin32" folder
>Finally select "MechWarriorOnline.exe" make sure that the configuration is saved.

I hope this works for you guys too. I'm also in the camp of not wanting to uninstall Avast or turning off hardware virtualization completely.

If it helps here's some of my System specs:
OS: WIn 7 Professional x64
CPU: AMD FX-8320
Graphics: GTX 660
MOBO: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3
RAM: 16GB

[Blue Shadow]

Mr Gneiss, on 30 August 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

So, I've found another workaround that worked for me.

Basically what I did was I excluded the MechWarriorOnline.exe from being Autosandboxed by Avast. The following is a quick walk-through to exclude the .exe:

>Open the "Avast user interface"
>Open the "Security" tab
>Click the "Antivirus" tab and then the "File System Shield"
>Click the "Settings" button right next to the "Start" and "Stop" buttons
>A new window should open and you should Click the "AutoSandbox" tab
>At the bottom of the menu there should be a field that says "Files that will be excluded from automatic sandboxing:"
>Browse to wherever you installed MechWarrior Online (mine is looks like this:
E:\Program Files (x86)\PiranhaGames\MechWarrior Online\Bin32) and find the "Bin32" folder
>Finally select "MechWarriorOnline.exe" make sure that the configuration is saved.

I hope this works for you guys too. I'm also in the camp of not wanting to uninstall Avast or turning off hardware virtualization completely.

If it helps here's some of my System specs:
OS: WIn 7 Professional x64
CPU: AMD FX-8320
Graphics: GTX 660
MOBO: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3
RAM: 16GB

Good find! I'll give this a go!

[Jujula]

Sadly this solution dosent work for me. I have Phenom II X4 965. Still waiting for hotFIX from PGI and answers form Avast!

[Xenoid]

Mr Gneiss, on 30 August 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

So, I've found another workaround that worked for me.

Basically what I did was I excluded the MechWarriorOnline.exe from being Autosandboxed by Avast. The following is a quick walk-through to exclude the .exe:

>Open the "Avast user interface"
>Open the "Security" tab
>Click the "Antivirus" tab and then the "File System Shield"
>Click the "Settings" button right next to the "Start" and "Stop" buttons
>A new window should open and you should Click the "AutoSandbox" tab
>At the bottom of the menu there should be a field that says "Files that will be excluded from automatic sandboxing:"
>Browse to wherever you installed MechWarrior Online (mine is looks like this:
E:\Program Files (x86)\PiranhaGames\MechWarrior Online\Bin32) and find the "Bin32" folder
>Finally select "MechWarriorOnline.exe" make sure that the configuration is saved.

I hope this works for you guys too. I'm also in the camp of not wanting to uninstall Avast or turning off hardware virtualization completely.

If it helps here's some of my System specs:
OS: WIn 7 Professional x64
CPU: AMD FX-8320
Graphics: GTX 660
MOBO: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3
RAM: 16GB

Tried it, no go. Thanks for offering a solution even while PGI remains quiet.

[Gremlich Johns]

42and19, on 29 August 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

I think people should keep in mind that this is an issue with AVAST and not mwo. This problem exists in many games not just mwo. What this means is that pgi has very little they can do to fix this.

This may or may not help. But if you have access to your router you could try increasing the amount of packet data your router will accept before activating the DDos security feature all routers have.

You are incorrect, the issue lies with any developer that cannot code so that the Game is not affected by any anti-virus.

Seriously, it is the height of stupidity (yes, I'm pointing you out for this) to blame any company who has been writing code (Avast) for far longer than PGI has been in existence. (maybe you should stick to football)

I asked Avast myself about disabling the hardware-assisted virtualization and they told me there was no worry in doing so.

Irrespective, the problem lies with PGI and that patch that hosed it up and PGI needs to figure out why its code is not working in this issue.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 01 September 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[DragonsFire]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 September 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

You are incorrect, the issue lies with any developer that cannot code so that the Game is not affected by any anti-virus.

Seriously, it is the height of stupidity (yes, I'm pointing you out for this) to blame any company who has been writing code (Avast) for far longer than PGI has been in existence. (maybe you should stick to football)

I asked Avast myself about disabling the hardware-assisted virtualization and they told me there was no worry in doing so.

Irrespective, the problem lies with PGI and that patch that hosed it up and PGI needs to figure out why its code is not working in this issue.

I would like to point out that the length of time writing code does not in any way exclude one developer, let alone one company, of errors in it's code. Microsoft is a prime example of this, but regardless, you would be hard pressed to find any code that requires user interaction and thousands of variables that would be 100% defect free, especially after contact with the real world.

I would suggest not jumping over someone's case when they are offering a potential solution and help and to further not jump out and say that they are at the height of stupidity. While it's entirely possible that the fault of this issue lies with MWO (and therefore PGI) it is also not out of the realm of possibility that these could be fault with Avast, or perhaps it is both parties. Either way, frustration aside, jumping to the blame game doesn't help resolve the issue for anyone.

[Gremlich Johns]

DragonsFire, on 01 September 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

I would suggest not jumping over someone's case when they are offering a potential solution and help and to further not jump out and say that they are at the height of stupidity. While it's entirely possible that the fault of this issue lies with MWO (and therefore PGI) it is also not out of the realm of possibility that these could be fault with Avast, or perhaps it is both parties. Either way, frustration aside, jumping to the blame game doesn't help resolve the issue for anyone.

His recommendation did not contain any steps on how one might do this. And how many people do you know that even realize they can modify their router. Bet they are mostly the hardcore gamers that do not buy pre-built systems. That's like recommending people to just go and monkey with their registry.

How could both parties be at fault? Did PGI tell Avast that they were releasing a new patch and that there might be an issue? No, PGI just went and did what they normally do - they released a patch.

Again, Avast's program code did not precipitate this issue, something in PGI's patch did which made Avast react negatively which in turn prohibited MWO from launching into the game. That is the problem. The workaround to disable hardware-assisted virtualization is vetted by Avast. Again, this does not absolve PGI from fixing their code.

That's what "fault isolate, remove/replace, test/ verify" is for in product development and maintenance. Granted, the number of computer system variations/configs is high, but, checking which systems are the most prevalent should give ANY development company the metrics they need to assure a well coded product.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 02 September 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[Thorqemada]

An update to Avast! version 8.0.1497 came out, i still dont have any trouble but you troubled Players may test it with MWO.

Edited by Thorqemada, 02 September 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[DragonsFire]

Gremlich Johns, on 02 September 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

His recommendation did not contain any steps on how one might do this. And how many people do you know that even realize they can modify their router. Bet they are mostly the hardcore gamers that do not buy pre-built systems. That's like recommending people to just go and monkey with their registry.

How could both parties be at fault? Did PGI tell Avast that they were releasing a new patch and that there might be an issue? No, PGI just went and did what they normally do - they released a patch.

Again, Avast's program code did not precipitate this issue, something in PGI's patch did which made Avast react negatively which in turn prohibited MWO from launching into the game. That is the problem. The workaround to disable hardware-assisted virtualization is vetted by Avast. Again, this does not absolve PGI from fixing their code.

That's what "fault isolate, remove/replace, test/ verify" is for in product development and maintenance. Granted, the number of computer system variations/configs is high, but, checking which systems are the most prevalent should give ANY development company the metrics they need to assure a well coded product.

Both parties can be at fault if new code is released that breaks existing checks in the scan process. Without having specific insight on the process though, I can't say for sure that this is the case, but given that I have seen multiple parties at fault before after an upgrade, I never rule it out.

Regardless of how many iterations you can come up with in your test environment, you can never hit every possibility unfortunately. Corner case defects will always occur, and even wide based defects that by all rights should have been encountered in your test environment will still pop up in production, regardless of how good or thorough your testing is. That's the nature of the beast, there is absolutely no two ways around it.

What matters most is understanding this, providing every bit of information you can when you do encounter these situations so the folks responsible can get what they need to implement a fix. As I've said before, they can't troubleshoot or code in a vacuum, the more information they are armed with, the more likely they are to be able to hone in on a fix.

[42and19]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 September 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

You are incorrect, the issue lies with any developer that cannot code so that the Game is not affected by any anti-virus.

Seriously, it is the height of stupidity (yes, I'm pointing you out for this) to blame any company who has been writing code (Avast) for far longer than PGI has been in existence. (maybe you should stick to football)

I asked Avast myself about disabling the hardware-assisted virtualization and they told me there was no worry in doing so.

Irrespective, the problem lies with PGI and that patch that hosed it up and PGI needs to figure out why its code is not working in this issue.

This issue goes back at least 10 years. It affected counter-strike in the early days. Therefore it is just as much the fault of avast as it is pgi if not more so. To continue your time argument the developers of Avast have had ample time to fix a well documented and well known issue with their code and have refused to do so instead laying the burden on the developers of the specific games. Laying the majority of the blame in their laps.

Gremlich Johns, on 02 September 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

His recommendation did not contain any steps on how one might do this. And how many people do you know that even realize they can modify their router. Bet they are mostly the hardcore gamers that do not buy pre-built systems. That's like recommending people to just go and monkey with their registry.

How could both parties be at fault? Did PGI tell Avast that they were releasing a new patch and that there might be an issue? No, PGI just went and did what they normally do - they released a patch.

Again, Avast's program code did not precipitate this issue, something in PGI's patch did which made Avast react negatively which in turn prohibited MWO from launching into the game. That is the problem. The workaround to disable hardware-assisted virtualization is vetted by Avast. Again, this does not absolve PGI from fixing their code.

That's what "fault isolate, remove/replace, test/ verify" is for in product development and maintenance. Granted, the number of computer system variations/configs is high, but, checking which systems are the most prevalent should give ANY development company the metrics they need to assure a well coded product.

I will concede that I did not provide directions on how to do this. This is mainly due to the fact that each router is different and the process on each is different. I made the (apparently) erroneous assumption that most people who play mmos know how to use Google and can look at their routers for manufacturer information.

Also, try to avoid personal attacks in your posts it tends to take away from the point you are making.

[r4plez]

Yet another patch and still no FIX. PGI do you know how your game work? I dont want to uninstall avast, nor i want to lower my security to play game - this leaves me plenty time look for other games. Keep it up :/

[Valdr_Skeggjoar]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Greetings Players,

We are currently experiencing an issue where players are unable to enter the game, becoming stuck at the "Please Wait" screen. This appears to be related to two factors:
-AMD Processor
-avast! Anti-Virus Software

In order to workaround this issue, there are 2 currently known workarounds

1 - un-install Avast! and reboot your PC.
2 - "[color=#959595]Instead of uninstalling and reinstalling Avast open Avast, go to settings and under the troubleshooting section uncheck the box for "Enable hardware-assisted virtualization". Then reboot and you should be able to launch MWO with no problems."[/color]

(special thanks to Silvercrest for uncovering this and sharing with the community!)

I had the same problem, and I used choice #2 and it fixed the problem!! Thank you Silvercrest!!

[Synapse49]

I had this problem and the un-checking virtualization fix solved it. Just updated Avast. Virtualization is still unchecked but the APPCRASH problem is happening. Anyone else run into this problem and manage to fix it?

[Gremlich Johns]

Synapse49, on 09 September 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

I had this problem and the un-checking virtualization fix solved it. Just updated Avast. Virtualization is still unchecked but the APPCRASH problem is happening. Anyone else run into this problem and manage to fix it?

Have you tried uninstalling MW:O, restarting, then cleaned the registry (with something like pctools' registry mechanic), then restart, then reinstall MW:O?

That really is the only thing I can think of. I also recently updated my avast, but nothing unusual cropped up when I start up MW:O

Oh, just thought of this - the MW:O repair tool.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 10 September 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Synapse49, on 09 September 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

I had this problem and the un-checking virtualization fix solved it. Just updated Avast. Virtualization is still unchecked but the APPCRASH problem is happening. Anyone else run into this problem and manage to fix it?

1. Check the Virtualization, restart computer and Test MWO. Now Uncheck Virtualization, reboot computer.

[Synapse49]

Thanks Gremlich and Tarl.

I just opened up MWO and it needed the patch from today. Launched properly after the patch.

I'll give those things a try if/when it happens again.


Thanks again

[Krist Smith]

Original Problem:
Running MechWarrior Online on a system with an AMD processor with Avast! antivirus software causes the game to crash when Avast virtualization is enabled (which is the default setting).

Technical details:
When enabling the SSE2 compiler option, the engine was unable to detect the type of processor. This would lead to trying to execute sections of code that aren't valid for an AMD processor, which causes the game to crash.

Solution:
In examining the code that detects the processor type, it was clear that something special was going wrong. Code that worked in almost every other circumstance was failing (most likely due to alignment issues caused by Avast! virtualization). Rewriting this code to index more generically within each data type prevents the issue from occurring.

Avast has provided absolutely no explanation of why this may be the case. They, instead, recommend that we not use the SSE2 compiler option. This is not a valid solution on our part - we did this to not only improve performance but also to allow us to fix several bugs with more efficient code. Disabling SSE2 would revert performance improvements and would require the bug fixes to be rewritten.

This problem has been tested on Intel systems as well as AMD, but these problems don't seem to be having an effect there. Even so, the code changes that are being done for the AMD detection will also be carried over into the Intel sections, just to be on the safe side.

We've contacted CryTek with this information to ensure that our changes are entirely positive. When working with an engine with such a large code base, low-level changes like this have the potential to have a huge impact on other unexpected areas. In the meantime, we're running tests on our systems (and various antivirus suites) to ensure nothing is broken by our change.

We apologize for the delay in getting this problem fixed, but it was very difficult to find the specific change that initially caused the problem, and equally as difficult to find the areas in the codebase that were leading to the crash. Note that the problem code was not indicated in our crash dumps, it was well after this flawed code had executed that the crash actually occurred. Also, Avast provided the already known workarounds (disable SSE2 or "try the latest Beta and see") and offered no assistance in finding an actual solution, despite being well aware that other pieces of software (they pointed out that these were mainly games) had the same problem. We're not interested in playing the blame game here, this is just to explain why the problem took so long to solve.

Once the proposed solution has been vetted (tested on all our systems and reviewed by CryTek) then it will make it into our releases. I cannot offer a statement on when that will happen, but it should be within the next two patch cycles, assuming nothing goes wrong.

[MavRCK]

Krist Smith, on 12 September 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Original Problem:
Running MechWarrior Online on a system with an AMD processor with Avast! antivirus software causes the game to crash when Avast virtualization is enabled (which is the default setting).

Technical details:
When enabling the SSE2 compiler option, the engine was unable to detect the type of processor. This would lead to trying to execute sections of code that aren't valid for an AMD processor, which causes the game to crash.

Solution:
In examining the code that detects the processor type, it was clear that something special was going wrong. Code that worked in almost every other circumstance was failing (most likely due to alignment issues caused by Avast! virtualization). Rewriting this code to index more generically within each data type prevents the issue from occurring.

Avast has provided absolutely no explanation of why this may be the case. They, instead, recommend that we not use the SSE2 compiler option. This is not a valid solution on our part - we did this to not only improve performance but also to allow us to fix several bugs with more efficient code. Disabling SSE2 would revert performance improvements and would require the bug fixes to be rewritten.

That must have been a crazy amount of work to figure out where the incompatibility with Avast is. Thanks!