31 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

LRM's already have ENOUGH penalties and drawbacks to using them, beyond the heat they generate.

LRMs have a minimum range, and a very big one at that.

LRMs are HEAVY and take up a lot of crit space, especially with Artemis.

LRMs are Ammo hogs, next to the AC2, LRMs use up the most ammo the fastest, especially with the bigger launchers (20's and 15's).

LRMs are also naturally limited to the harpoints on mechs, not a lot of mechs have more then 3 launchers on them, much less have proper tubing.

Due to all of this, a LRM mech has to sacrifice a lot to be even remotely "effective" and even then thats not guaranteed. Where as an energy mech has to sacrifice very little to be effective. Which is why we see the issue of Stalkers not being used in there proper roles (LRM boats) and are instead being used as energy mechs. This severely hurts the actual energy mech in the assault class (the Awesome). That mech is made to use energy, and lots of it, some of them can use missiles but primarily that mech is Energy. Its drawback is properly utilized as well seeing as it can be hit very easily. However that is for another topic on another day.

Heat Penalties should be applied ONLY to ENERGY weapons, which also are the more PREVALENT hardpoint out there. This makes it easy for almost any mech to "boat" energy, but not all mechs can "boat" LRMs. There is only ONE mech that has 6 missile hardpoints, and the next one has 5.

[Sheraf]

Stalker's role is LRM boat? beside 3H with 20 tubes each arms, other Stalkers has 10 tubes each arm, and 12 tube for SRM. Stalker is more of an all range mech rather than LRM or energy only.

[Siluss]

So if not many mechs can boat lrms because of hard point restriction the added heat for boating them really only effects catapults but they are trying to give a reason for not boating. Its harder with pults but limit your self to 2 lrm launchers then to srm or ssrm after that to not get a huge heat penalty.

[Sheraf]

The stock config on the Stalker is a better choice. Pure LRM is too situational, or pure PPC, laser etc.

[Bilbo]

Because a blob of 60+ missiles is a little over the top, and especially so when two or more mechs toss them at you at once. Multiple large launchers, chain-fired, are still pretty effective.

[Joseph Mallan]

Siluss, on 31 July 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

So if not many mechs can boat lrms because of hard point restriction the added heat for boating them really only effects catapults but they are trying to give a reason for not boating. Its harder with pults but limit your self to 2 lrm launchers then to srm or ssrm after that to not get a huge heat penalty.

Bane-3
19 Doubles kept it cool when launching all 8 LRM 15s.
Yeoman

Longbow

And don't forget the LRM Carrier Tank 4 LRM 20s each.

Large quantities of Missiles have been flying in BattleTech since the Archer. And I used to field 2 Archers in a Lance Just so i could rain on my enemies.

[Khobai]

Because LRMS, LPLs, and LL were clearly overpowered. And they needed to be balanced with PPCs which are fine.

[Devils Advocate]

You can still chainfire LRMs to great effect. Just put them on chainfire and hold down your mouse button and they'll automatically fire off about every half second with no heat penalty. Makes you somewhat less of a sniper and more of a support vehicle but you'll still decimate anyone who wanders out into the open the same as you ever would.

[Lyoto Machida]

I guess a switch to PPCs is in order then.

Devils Advocate, on 31 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

You can still chainfire LRMs to great effect. Just put them on chainfire and hold down your mouse button and they'll automatically fire off about every half second with no heat penalty. Makes you somewhat less of a sniper and more of a support vehicle but you'll still decimate anyone who wanders out into the open the same as you ever would.

Regardless of whatever workarounds we can do, its a stupid "fix"...

[One Medic Army]

As those above have said: just chainfire.
No need to alpha them, unless you're trying to overwhelm an AMS system, which is intended to be a countermeasure to LRMs.

Maybe PGI did it so AMS will start actually working against LRM boats, rather than just shooting down ~6 missiles out of 50-60?

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 31 July 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Maybe PGI did it so AMS will start actually working against LRM boats, rather than just shooting down ~6 missiles out of 50-60?

LOL I would have been happy if my AMS did that on TT! Also AMS had a restriction that if fired it shot the 1st salvo and could NOT be used to help a friendly. AMS is far superior in MWO! even if only shooting down 6 Missiles.

[xCico]

Lrm boaters please stop opening new threads and complain because they did good job with crappy lrm, thank you PGI please leave LRMs for now and dont ever change them, thanks one more…

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 July 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

LOL I would have been happy if my AMS did that on TT! Also AMS had a restriction that if fired it shot the 1st salvo and could NOT be used to help a friendly. AMS is far superior in MWO! even if only shooting down 6 Missiles.

Yes, and so are the LRMs.
In TT you got to benefit from TAG, NARC or Artemis, only one, and ECM cancelled the bonus entirely.
LRMs in TT would (with the bonus) hit with ~16 missiles out of 20, and they'd hit in randomly allocated groups of 5, plus you'd have to hit with the actual volley.

Firing 4 LRM15s, you'd hit with probably 2 launchers, for a grand total of ~20 missiles, probably spread out over 4-5 random locations.
Now, the target couldn't take any action to avoid those missiles, but they also wouldn't suddenly get hit with the full 60 (mostly to CT) just because they didn't take action to avoid them.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 31 July 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Yes, and so are the LRMs.
In TT you got to benefit from TAG, NARC or Artemis, only one, and ECM cancelled the bonus entirely.
LRMs in TT would (with the bonus) hit with ~16 missiles out of 20, and they'd hit in randomly allocated groups of 5, plus you'd have to hit with the actual volley.

Firing 4 LRM15s, you'd hit with probably 2 launchers, for a grand total of ~20 missiles, probably spread out over 4-5 random locations.
Now, the target couldn't take any action to avoid those missiles, but they also wouldn't suddenly get hit with the full 60 (mostly to CT) just because they didn't take action to avoid them.

LRM15s averaged 9 missiles on target per launcher so with 2 hits that would be 18 missiles average. Other than that you got it pretty accurate.

[Lyoto Machida]

19cico96, on 31 July 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Lrm boaters please stop opening new threads and complain because they did good job with crappy lrm, thank you PGI please leave LRMs for now and dont ever change them, thanks one more…

LRMs are actually more complex to use than PPCs...try again.

Unless PPCs are more than just point and click...I could be wrong.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 July 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

LRM15s averaged 9 missiles on target per launcher so with 2 hits that would be 18 missiles average. Other than that you got it pretty accurate.

Yeah, but with a +4 for Artemis/TAG/NARC it throws off the balance, especially with how the table increments.

Edited by One Medic Army, 31 July 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

IIRC you only got one bonus on TT. I on't ever remember a player trying to sack all three bonuses. in fact if you ha NARC you had to carry Ammo hat was for NARC use, same with AG and Artemis.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 July 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 July 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

IIRC you only got one bonus on TT. I on't ever remember a player trying to sack all three bonuses. in fact if you ha NARC you had to carry Ammo hat was for NARC use, same with AG and Artemis.

Honestly the best thing PGI could do is this.

Artemis tightens the spread.

TAG decreases lock time.

NARC tightens the spread and decreases lock time. Drops off when the component is destroyed (This is assuming they do not change the tonnage requirements and ammo amounts), does not stack with TAG or Artemis.

ECM no longer blocks missile locks, but does disable NARC/TAG/Artemis.

ECM is allowed on every mech.

Figure out a way to make it so LRM's aren't so CT hungry (even with Artemis) while also upping the damage some and raising the speed again so that they are usable beyond 800m (they barely are now).

Generally speaking I'd like to see LRM'***** RA/RT/CT/LT/LA with no Artemis or NARC, and then weight more towards RT/CT/LT with Artemis or NARC.

This would make them a fun and probably balanced. If someone is really worried about LRM's they can invest in ECM and AMS to limit their damage.

Problem is...they will still be less useful than PPC/Gauss. And every other weapon's balance hinges on it.

The reason I don't really freak out about LRM's going CT at the moment is the game is built around coring the CT.

Weapons that don't do that (Lasers/LBX10/SRMs/LRMs sometimes) are generally inferior because of it.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 July 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

IIRC you only got one bonus on TT. I on't ever remember a player trying to sack all three bonuses. in fact if you ha NARC you had to carry Ammo hat was for NARC use, same with AG and Artemis.

Yeah, you got a +4 for one of the 3, and you could only use 1 of the 3.
You also had to get special missiles which cost twice as much.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

One Medic Army, on 31 July 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Yeah, you got a +4 for one of the 3, and you could only use 1 of the 3.
You also had to get special missiles which cost twice as much.

The problem is because of how ECM freaking works, they had to make them stack to give LRM's a chance in hell of being viable.

They are already super iffy against the better class of player.