342 replies to this topic

[Krivvan]

Apostal, on 01 August 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

So can we also tell you that your ELO matchmaking in 12v12 gets worse... I just had a game 8 assault (all ERPPC+Guass boats or LRM stalkers) vs 4 assault with alot of light/mediums (and they weren't even the good assault mechs... Awesomes -.-).

Can we expect real improvements to the broken ELO MM soon on PTS?!

What does Elo have anything to do with weight matching?

[Shufflemuffin5]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Please comment below with the following:

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
• Any additional comments or concerns.

1. Awesome-9M, Jagermech-DD, Catapult-K2. 2. Targeting reticle would bounce (not because I ran over a rock or aimed at something in front of me) randomly. 3. I actually felt at a disadvantage using the 3rd person view. A lot of people were saying they found it easier to brawl with, I actually found the opposite to be true. Felt like I running into other mechs/objects more than in 1st person. All in all I wouldn't mind it being implemented as it seems decently balanced other than the reticle shake.

[MoonUnitBeta]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
  • Atlas, Catapult, Hunchback, Jagermech, Spider
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
  • Smoother camera when turning quickly (NO Stuttering please.)
    
  • Reticle "Snap-To" removed or atleast would like to see what it would be like without that, it's incredibly difficult to aim close-range with that feature.
    
  • More motion in Arms.
• Any additional comments or concerns.
  
  • Torso twisting and pitch movement is not as fluid or responsive. Would like to see 3rd person match the responsiveness as 1st person.
    
  • A falloff distance added to lights on the drone, I.E. can only be seen 500m approx. and under. Do not let Depth of Field blur affect the Drone's light intensity. As a result of these changes, re-add Atlas' red glowing eyes back, since the only reason why they were removed was because you could see them from across the map (thanks to no falloff, and depth of field blur.)
    
  • As an additional training wheel (and probably more useful) add a directional compass rose, that is projected onto the ground for how the legs are aligned to the torso. As seen in here. After seeing this, the benefits for new users would be enhanced ten fold, and not only that, but in 3PV it could help with directional control as well.
    
  • There is not audio for when powering down in 3PV

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 01 August 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[joedawg39s]

kinda cool but i wouldn't see myself playing very much. For me seeing your legs isn't that helpful because i can use the mini map to see already. looks nice though.

Used a stalker and a phract.
Also had some targeting reticule weirdness with the stalker.

Spoiler

also the stalkers antena can throw you off because it looks like the arm cursor sometimes.

Edited by joedawg39s, 01 August 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[Devil Fox]

Krivvan, on 01 August 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

What does Elo have anything to do with weight matching?

It goes off ELO first... can't find someone in your weight class at your ELO, it steps up to the next weight class to look for an ELO equivalent. By that people in assaults force the matchmaker to find another assault or something smaller (and guess what happens typically?).

[Ransack]

Ransack, on 01 August 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

initial impression is that this game will never be the same. Not in a good way. Granted, I am remote controlling my home machine, but even on this laptop's screen of another screen, I see wider unobstructed field of view(tactical advantage). I can see my back (tactical advantage), and if I look down, I can see the ground (tactical advantage because of movement restrictions)

I will refrain from voting until I get home and can see clearly

Home, tried it, it sucks. It will be good for taking screenshots. I'll be in Hardcore mode.

[Matthew Craig]

Apostal, on 01 August 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

So can we also tell you that your ELO matchmaking in 12v12 gets worse... I just had a game 8 assault (all ERPPC+Guass boats or LRM stalkers) vs 4 assault with alot of light/mediums (and they weren't even the good assault mechs... Awesomes -.-). Can we expect real improvements to the broken ELO MM soon on PTS?!

Please remember public test is not production, the population is much lower so the match maker will necessarily have to make worse matches please try not to focus on things that are not part of the test as they are likely non issues.

Thanks

[Papaspud]

I used a jenner D and a cicada 3m, I thought the 3rd person view was fine, and the way it is implemented definitely makes it not OP. Kind of fun to run with, good for scouting over hills, but the lights on the drones show up all the way across the map. You are not hiding with that thing on.

Makes it situationally useful, but not really the preferred way to fight.

Good job PGI, and I am glad it turned out well, I had my doubts how you would pull it off.

I like it.

[BIix]

Mechs used: HGN-732, CTF-3D, CTF-1X, CN9-A, JNR-F

I would like to see the drone size physically increased, while the light can remain as it is. Also, it seems like all weapons fired to the Arm reticule, so I would like to see some of the reticule cleaned up just so it doesn't look buggy.

My overall impression.

For sniping, it isn't much of an advantage. If anything, FPV is still best for sniping. And the reticule snap that occurs when your view finder changes distances is a welcome hindrance. The loss of direct vision on your reticule while jumping also promotes FPV for long range play. This is good.

For Brawling, 3PV is DEFINITELY a tactical advantage. It becomes much easier to keep track of not only your intended target but of other targets around you. General combat awareness increases, but perhaps artificially so. When brawling, the missing mini map and other HUD items does not matter at all. The present awareness increase completely compensates for it.

Tactical Advantage, 3PV DEFINITELY provides a tactical advantage. When used correctly and not in combat, it is possible to view over terrain without exposing any part of your mech. While having the camera drone is better than nothing, I would not say that it is as noticeable as spotting an entire Mech on the move. I would say the drone needs to become a bit bigger.

The ramifications of the third point in competitive play are that teams won't move until they get positive ID's on enemy force movements. This will result in very stale combat that spends most time camping waiting for the other time to move so that you can observe it and react with an ambush.


Overall, I would say that this is fun. But it is still a deficit to the overall game. The game felt more like an arcade with 3PV active. I also will miss the day when I could say that I was good at being a MechWarrior, as with this update the skill threshold in general lowers and being skilled is no longer something to take deep pride in. Removing depth of skill from your game is always a sad thing to behold.

Edited by BIix, 01 August 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[AndyHill]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Please comment below with the following:

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
• Any additional comments or concerns.

1. Atlas D, Cataphract 4X, Jägermech S

2. Preferably removal. Separation of queues would be workable if the playerbase was massively bigger, but at the moment it won't work. At least - if the idea really is to help new players orient their feet and torsos - make the legs visible...

3. 3pv changes the gameplay fundamentally. You can peek above buildings and around corners now. Trying to make the modes equal by for example removing HUD elements will not work, because the benefits of the different views is situational and they complement each other. This is quite evident to anyone who has tried World of Tanks. By removing HUD elements you make the 3rd person view even more situational.

So the end result is that instead of creating a tool for new players to learn the game but not give tactical advantage you have created an option that adds complexity to new players and gives unrealistic and game changing tactical advantage to experienced people. If that was the goal, fine, otherwise how about realizing that the community was right from the start and trying something else to make the new players more welcome.

The glowing beacons are monumentally stupid as well. When I see them blinking in the distance I can't help but hear jingle bells ringing in my ears. The drones' movement is by necessity (following the camera position I presume) daftly swift, but no military force in existence would put a fracking pink beacon on their spy drones.

[General Taskeen]

What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?

Just make the angle like this Developers:



I could care less if 3PV incurs a situational advantage, because I'll be playing Hardcore mode anyways.

Just go all out with 3PV and make it like the previous Mech Warrior games, that way it will be more accessible to new players with that choice.

Edited by General Taskeen, 01 August 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[The Yeti]

I played the morning test. Played a round in training ground in my Ilya, played many matches through the morning in my Jager DD, Ilya, Cataphract 2x, Atlas K, and Stalker 5s.

While the idea is a novelty i found myself going back to the cockpit view, Personally i think the 3pv is a "Neat Idea" but does not belong, unless you are taking screenshots or making a video showing the external view of a mech. unless added as an expendable module that is destructable, ill pass.

I do not forsee myself or many others in my Corp using this "Feature"

[Wintersdark]

BIix, on 01 August 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

My overall impression.

For sniping, it isn't much of an advantage. If anything, FPV is still best for sniping. And the reticule snap that occurs when your view finder changes distances is a welcome hindrance. The loss of direct vision on your reticule while jumping also promotes FPV for long range play. This is good.

Agreed. In fact, I'd go so far as to say 3PV is a disadvantage for sniping at range.

Quote

For Brawling, 3PV is DEFINITELY a tactical advantage. It becomes much easier to keep track of not only your intended target but of other targets around you. General combat awareness increases, but perhaps artificially so. When brawling, the missing mini map and other HUD items does not matter at all. The present awareness increase completely compensates for it.

I disagree. Enormously. Sure, you can see what's in front of you in a slightly wider arc (or not, depending on what your 1PV FOV is set to - for me, they're the same) but loss of the minimap blinds you to what's behind you. That's very, very dangerous in a 12v12 brawling situation.

Quote

Tactical Advantage, 3PV DEFINITELY provides a tactical advantage. When used correctly and not in combat, it is possible to view over terrain without exposing any part of your mech. While having the camera drone is better than nothing, I would not say that it is as noticeable as spotting an entire Mech on the move. I would say the drone needs to become a bit bigger.

Honestly, particularly at long range I'd say the camera drone is more visible than a full mech on the move. That red light is BRIGHT, and clearly visible even 2km out.

Having 3PV on does give you a noteworthy advantage in situational awareness but it comes at a substantial cost: It gives away your position, it's just not as good for aiming, and loss of the minimap is a fairly major penalty - most significantly when you're not on voice comms.

Quote

The ramifications of the third point in competitive play are that teams won't move until they get positive ID's on enemy force movements. This will result in very stale combat that spends most time camping waiting for the other time to move so that you can observe it and react with an ambush.

I'm concerned about this, but I'm feeling that 3PV may actually help to reduce camping. You can peer around corners/over small terrain without fear of eating 24 PPC bolts, and thus pick a (marginally) safer moment to pop out.

Without 3PV, in a 12v12 match there is a very solid amount of well-deserved fear in that situation.

Quote

Overall, I would say that this is fun. But it is still a deficit to the overall game. The game felt more like an arcade with 3PV active. I also will miss the day when I could say that I was good at being a MechWarrior, as with this update the skill threshold in general lowers and being skilled is no longer a privilege. Removing depth of skill from your game is always a sad thing to behold.

3PV does not remove skill from the game. It has no impact on skill whatsoever.


In the end, I think 3PV is very useful and advantageous before engagement, but is generally speaking a disadvantage in actual combat, be it close range or far.

It's actually surprisingly fair.

[Anubis Ka]

What happened to "This is a Battlemech simulator", when did this become Mechassault for Xbox?

[Desolator1414]

Mechs played? Raven RVN-3L and Catapult CPLT-K2.

Improvements to 3rd person view? I believe this was very well done. I was really sad when I heard that you guys were going to do 3rd person but with this I believe you have done it very well (other than a few things to fix). I really liked using the 3rd person as a scout to see more around me but when I would be in a fight I would pull back in 1st. The only thing I wish I could do was to see more of my legs. it might be good to allow moving the cam up and done a little.

Other comments? Keep up the good work and I look forward to UI 2.0

[BIix]

I would like to suggest that PGI make 3PV a module. Give it free to new players. But also allow the drone to be shot down, thus denying the enemy the tactical advantage it affords.

This would introduce choices with regard to gameplay and combat style. (ie, shoot the drone to deny information at the cost of letting the mech live longer or shoot the mech to kill it faster.) This simple choice would be the beginning of many choices that could come a long to make gameplay truly dynamic and full of conscious decisions that have tangible outcomes.

[Jacob Roamer]

Mechs used:

Victor 9S: Sniper build
CatC4: LRM Boat
Raven 3L: Scout setup
Quickraw: IN Close brawler

Improvements: Inability to switch from 3PV to 1PV after its engaged. If you want it great, but once you choose thats it no going back. Inability in 3PV to access Battle Grid.

Comments/Concerns:

Sniper Build has no advantage AS LONG as you dont switch back to 1PV. Keeping Arms fixed is a great idea to balance out 3PV. It was hard to get down and up angles while in 3PV.

LRM Build has a noticable disadvantage from 1PV. I pilot a missle boat a lot and it was NOT easy to get lock on. LRM's are difficult to play in 3PV.

Brawler build: Slight advantage. I could see escape routes more easily which increased survivablity. This was offset however by the loss of siesmic and knowing where my teammates were.

Scout Build: Significant Advantage: increased visability led to easy navigation of terrain and finding the enemy. Loss of seismic was no big deal. Escapeablity was increased significantly due to awareness around you. However trying to fight in the Raven was DISADVANTAGE IMHO. 3PV will help a TRUE scout a lot, but will hamper a "harrasser" build.

Keep it the way it is, and loose the ability to switch back and forth. If you HAVE to have it then make the switch the same as a Shutdown sequence. Its WAY to fast right now.

Edited by Jacob Roamer, 01 August 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[WM Fochs]

• I used a Stalker, BlackJack and a Quickdraw.
  
• none so far
  
• it should be able to be turned off for certain games.

[EndGame8968]

First of all I'd really like to say that I'm quite happy with how you guys have implemented this, despite an overwhelming dissatisfaction from the community.

Here are my results:
I used a Jenner, Jagermech,Blackjack, Raven, Atlas.

Jenner:
At first it was pretty cool. I thought of adjusting my FOV to 100. MASSIVE changes is 3PV. I can see everything around my mech. It looks fantastic... Until I got into combat and started playing like a light. The camera dragged behind, stuttered and chopped, and just couldn't keep up with the constant torso twisting and jumping, etc. I ran usually at a solid 50-60 FPS, and then dropped to 20-30 when in combat, in 3PV.

Jager:
Had major issues aiming my machine guns and ppcs. Just couldn't get on target. Friendly fire was a massive issue in this drop. The reticle needs to turn a different colour when you hit friendly mechs. Perhaps blue or something because people can't seem to tell with it just turning red.

Atlas:
At this point the only way I can play is with the FOV pulled back. It's way too close for these bigger mechs. Again massive FF issues.

Blackjack:
Not as many problems as the jenner. But still a little laggy.

Other:
The camera drone is great. I like what you have done, I feel like it should be targetable, take out the ability to have 3PV.
The zoom in when approaching objects is great. Limits ability to see around.
If there was a sound when the drone was deployed, that would be cool. Should take longer to engage. Battlemap should take longer to access. Perhaps a delay. Downloading to probe/drone?

Overall, very well done. Im quite impressed. Way to go guys!

[Bobby Bolivia]

1) Atlas DD-C and Raven 3L
2) None. The implementation seems pretty neutral, if not slightly biased towards first person. My personal opinion as a long time player who did not want 3rd person is that the way it is would be fine in the actual game.
3) I like the current implementation as it will open the game to a broader audience without affecting gameplay for the current user base.