22 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

I died after doing some damage, but the other team lost because the spiders spent the entire match fishing for kills against heavies and assaults instead of capping.

But yeah, the hit registration is completely ********. They weren't outstanding pilots ducking and weaving, they were mostly running in circles and jumping up and down. Landed some nice full blasts that did just about nothing to them.

Guess that's where the game balance is at for spiders right now. Everyone's trolling in one, thinking they're gods. Reminds me of the days of Raven 3L skillz swarms.

high five PGI, every time you fix something you break something else.

[Corvus Antaka]

let me guess.

You forgot your 6 SSRM2 catapult?

[William Mountbank]

A worthy addition to all the other posts claiming piloting a Spider is only about trolling poor assault mechs trying to earn their crust.

I always focus on capping in Conquest in my Spider, and as a result I get no CBills.

Now, lets say I also focused on capping in assault, how would you be feeling then? Maybe you should be glad that even Spider pilots like getting kills, even though that should be the exclusive role of the assault mech. Those crazy light pilots, thinking they should be allowed to do damage too! They should go back to spotting for non existent LRMs and dying early! Those are the only rewards they deserve!

[dario03]

William Mountbank, on 01 August 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

A worthy addition to all the other posts claiming piloting a Spider is only about trolling poor assault mechs trying to earn their crust.

I always focus on capping in Conquest in my Spider, and as a result I get no CBills.

Now, lets say I also focused on capping in assault, how would you be feeling then? Maybe you should be glad that even Spider pilots like getting kills, even though that should be the exclusive role of the assault mech. Those crazy light pilots, thinking they should be allowed to do damage too! They should go back to spotting for non existent LRMs and dying early! Those are the only rewards they deserve!

I don't think the play style was his main point. I think his main point was how screwed up the hit detection is on spiders right now. And from what I can see it is really bad for a lot of players. Maybe you're not one of them, I know my spider didn't seem to absorb tons of damage but I've seen plenty that did. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if he is talking about the same 3 spiders I saw earlier. At the end of the game it was 3 spiders vs me and 5 team mates all in the same area. The spiders ran in and basically ran in straight lines, basic turns, a little jump jetting, and a ton of overheating shut downs. I was in a Jenner so I was very close to a shut down spider multiple times and could clearly see them getting hit by enough firepower to kill a fresh spider but despite them shutting down multiple times each not a single one died. And I don't mean I saw a few shut downs between the 3 spiders I mean I saw all 3 constantly shutting down for ~4 minutes while in the middle of nearly a whole team.

[Randalf Yorgen]

I find a Jaggermech with 2er ppcs and 6 MG's (8k rounds) will take care of spiders fairly well. ER ppc removes the ecm and a good ammount of armor and the MG's will do the rest. Also try to get the legs, once they are legged it's game over for them. once in a while they will own me but being a Jenner pilot at heart I know most of their tricks. One suggestion I will make is what I just eluded too, If you have only run in heavies and assaults and are always getting ripped up by lights, I would suggest that you get into a light and run it for a week to get a feel for how they operate, Jenners and Commandos are the most user friendly for people who don't know what to try and there is Sarahs Jenner for that Xp boost. Give it a try and learn what it is that you are fighting. Then when you go back to assaults or heavies you might be able to anticipate the next move that the light who is trying to run circles around you is about to do. If you can do that you will owns them a lot more. I've found lately that there have been assaults able to oneshot my Jenner (usually 2 ppc/1 gauss) but the thing is with my ping of 28, they have been able to hit me and make it count.

[Unbound Inferno]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 August 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

let me guess.

You forgot your 6 SSRM2 catapult?

Probably got its ears shot off. I swear those missile arm hitboxes are the size of an Awesome's CT.

[William Mountbank]

Well, I just came out a match on Caustic where I was on Kappa cap point early, and got caught by two Jenners. In the tens of seconds it took me to disengage by climbing over the caldera and rejoining my team group I was down to yellow internals. This was including jinking around all the jaggies on the caldera to throw off their aim. This is pretty representative of what fighting other lights is like for me in my Spider.

When I'm in other mechs, and the Quickdraw and Cataphract are my normal other choices, then I can't honestly ascribe the trouble I have hitting Spiders to anything other than me having difficulty tracking them correctly with my reticles - because I have the same trouble with other lights. I've also never seen any more obvious visual hits that don't register on Spiders than on other mechs. It seems more like Spiders are just too small to effectively target any component while moving, so damage is always spread.

But I can tell you, every time I stick my head over a parapet in Valleys with my Spider, it'll take a gauss or double PPC blast and have all it's CT armour stripped. Moving is the only safety.

[dario03]

William Mountbank, on 01 August 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

Well, I just came out a match on Caustic where I was on Kappa cap point early, and got caught by two Jenners. In the tens of seconds it took me to disengage by climbing over the caldera and rejoining my team group I was down to yellow internals. This was including jinking around all the jaggies on the caldera to throw off their aim. This is pretty representative of what fighting other lights is like for me in my Spider.

When I'm in other mechs, and the Quickdraw and Cataphract are my normal other choices, then I can't honestly ascribe the trouble I have hitting Spiders to anything other than me having difficulty tracking them correctly with my reticles - because I have the same trouble with other lights. I've also never seen any more obvious visual hits that don't register on Spiders than on other mechs. It seems more like Spiders are just too small to effectively target any component while moving, so damage is always spread.

But I can tell you, every time I stick my head over a parapet in Valleys with my Spider, it'll take a gauss or double PPC blast and have all it's CT armour stripped. Moving is the only safety.

Then you must not be one of the affected spider pilots. Like I said it seems to only make some spiders demi-gods while others remain like glass. I never really noticed any super armor on my spider and just a few matches after my earlier example I saw a spider get shot down to yellow internals very quickly but other times they just don't take damage properly. And that really needs to be fixed because it just simply isn't fair for some people to get this free super armor. I'm all for lights being viable and being hard to hit is a good way to do that but only if it is consistent and based on skill and not random glitches/ping/computer hardware/ or whatever it is that is causing this.

[Belorion]

If an assault can't defend itself against a light it deserves the loss.

[Training Instructor]

dario03, on 01 August 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

I don't think the play style was his main point. I think his main point was how screwed up the hit detection is on spiders right now. And from what I can see it is really bad for a lot of players. Maybe you're not one of them, I know my spider didn't seem to absorb tons of damage but I've seen plenty that did. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if he is talking about the same 3 spiders I saw earlier. At the end of the game it was 3 spiders vs me and 5 team mates all in the same area. The spiders ran in and basically ran in straight lines, basic turns, a little jump jetting, and a ton of overheating shut downs. I was in a Jenner so I was very close to a shut down spider multiple times and could clearly see them getting hit by enough firepower to kill a fresh spider but despite them shutting down multiple times each not a single one died. And I don't mean I saw a few shut downs between the 3 spiders I mean I saw all 3 constantly shutting down for ~4 minutes while in the middle of nearly a whole team.

Yeah, I think I remember you in this match. I mastered my three spiders months ago, after HSR came out, when everyone said they were terrible and a detriment to the team. It was considered to be a mech for fairly experienced pilots who wanted a challenge. Not now though. Right now it's a mech that lots of people are using because coding makes it a very forgiving mech for a lot of people.

I've run a streakapult I think twice since ECM came out. Needless to say, it's been awhile. Besides, could achieve a lot more with a Jager packing 4xSSRM2 and 2xERPPC.

[WolvesX]

My Jager can kill a Spider in 2 volleys and I then to hit them. I see no problem with Spiders but the bugs on them should be fixed ofc.

[Sprouticus]

William Mountbank, on 01 August 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

A worthy addition to all the other posts claiming piloting a Spider is only about trolling poor assault mechs trying to earn their crust.

I always focus on capping in Conquest in my Spider, and as a result I get no CBills.

Now, lets say I also focused on capping in assault, how would you be feeling then? Maybe you should be glad that even Spider pilots like getting kills, even though that should be the exclusive role of the assault mech. Those crazy light pilots, thinking they should be allowed to do damage too! They should go back to spotting for non existent LRMs and dying early! Those are the only rewards they deserve!

William Mountbank, on 01 August 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

A worthy addition to all the other posts claiming piloting a Spider is only about trolling poor assault mechs trying to earn their crust.

I always focus on capping in Conquest in my Spider, and as a result I get no CBills.

Now, lets say I also focused on capping in assault, how would you be feeling then? Maybe you should be glad that even Spider pilots like getting kills, even though that should be the exclusive role of the assault mech. Those crazy light pilots, thinking they should be allowed to do damage too! They should go back to spotting for non existent LRMs and dying early! Those are the only rewards they deserve!

I focus on capping in a heavy very often on conquest. I usually escort to the first node taken, then play D near the node. Trying to help out with long range fire if I can find shots.

This is especiallyeffective on the new map.

[Roland]

Against poor players, my spider is neigh invincible.. but against good players, I need to be real careful because they don't have that much trouble landing shots on it.

Of course, my ping tends to be good at around 50-60. Folks who are running fast lights with a ping of like 300 tend to warp around somewhat, which is a pain in the ***.

[MaddMaxx]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

If an assault can't defend itself against a light it deserves the loss.

Unless, of course, during the real fighting that Assault has lost 75% of its armaments and only has 15% of its Armor left and the Light is relatively fresh. Just saying.

[DaZur]

MaddMaxx, on 01 August 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

Unless, of course, during the real fighting that Assault has lost 75% of its armaments and only has 15% of its Armor left and the Light is relatively fresh. Just saying.

Sounds like your quoting from experience?

[dario03]

Roland, on 01 August 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Against poor players, my spider is neigh invincible.. but against good players, I need to be real careful because they don't have that much trouble landing shots on it.

Of course, my ping tends to be good at around 50-60. Folks who are running fast lights with a ping of like 300 tend to warp around somewhat, which is a pain in the ***.

I was thinking ping would have a affect on this though I think I have seen some low ping players have the super armor. I ping about 35 and like I said I never noticed it on my spider. To me it really seems like its either random or HSR helps the higher ping players more so than the lower. I remember a match a while back where I was in a catapult and shot at another catapult at a distance and it seemed like HSR helped him and hurt me. I fired first with ppcs and on my screen clearly hit a non-moving mech smack dab in the center and probably in the cockpit but even though I could see the hit and see my reticule turn red the enemy showed no damage. After I shot him I started moving away at a angle and on my screen could see 2 guass shells hit a whole mech length away but 2 seconds later it registered as a CT hit on me. That kind of stuff is really annoying and even though that was a catapult example I really think this kind of stuff happens with spiders more than anything.

Edited by dario03, 01 August 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Cycleboy]

Roland, on 01 August 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Against poor players, my spider is neigh invincible.. but against good players, I need to be real careful because they don't have that much trouble landing shots on it.

Of course, my ping tends to be good at around 50-60. Folks who are running fast lights with a ping of like 300 tend to warp around somewhat, which is a pain in the ***.

Is there a way to manipulate your ping? Could this be considered an exploit if done to inflate ping to get "warp shields" on the lights? I usually have ping between 30-60. When I get hit in a light, I get HIT. Could some nefarious personages be using background programs to ramp up the ping for their own benefit?

[dario03]

Cycleboy, on 01 August 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Is there a way to manipulate your ping? Could this be considered an exploit if done to inflate ping to get "warp shields" on the lights? I usually have ping between 30-60. When I get hit in a light, I get HIT. Could some nefarious personages be using background programs to ramp up the ping for their own benefit?

It is possible, and every once in a while you will see some one with a ping that is jumping all over the place but who knows if they're actually cheating or just on a bad connection/don't know. It also might not be just a advantage since a high ping would have negative affects too but if HSR works to well then maybe they wouldn't notice. Or they could make it so that they only lag when they want too. I would hope that most players aren't doing that kind of stuff though and the high pings are simply from distance and bad connections. But that is one of the reasons I wish the game would group players by ping a bit, or that they would get some more servers set up in other countries.

Edited by dario03, 01 August 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Ngamok]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 August 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

let me guess.

You forgot your 6 SSRM2 catapult?

What if they had 3 Spider - 5Ds?

[DeRazer]

Played yesterday on Terra Therma. There was a STATIC spider in the central area, and I shot it 4 times with 4xML in the same leg.

For some reason it couldnt work out that I was behind it and moved a little between each shot but I ONLY shot when it was static and hit full burn on that damn leg every time.

That's 80 Dmg to a leg. The thing should have exploded at half of that (well, 42).

Ping can't be the issue in a non-moving mech.

Spider's are broke.